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RW Forum Six - 3.30
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I will practices with gels for the race and will take some on my HM in March. I used SIS previously and they are nice as they are isotonic they don't need huge amounts of water. I used Lucazade on the VLM last year and got massive stomach cramps ,they need lots of water. I'll be taking my own SIS on the big day but their water and sports drinks at the aid stations.
Good run Gazelle, do you like peanut butter on toast, good for recovery food as high in protein with wholemeal bread to give good carbs. More bananas should help with the cramps as it is the potassium salts you are probably short of not sodium which comes from normal salt. While training last spring I started having a banana a day and cramps stopped.
Did my 20 mile on Sunday morning all close to 9:00mm thanks to advice from here I slowed down and managed the same pace for the whole distance very pleased with the run.
Mr Puffy what is Jantastic??
Shaggy any chance I could have a copy of the P&D spreadsheet?
Gazelle I'm not sure that you need to worry about a bit of cramp now and again. I sometimes get it if I stretch my legs in bed or sit with my legs in a certain way but I think that's normal for everyone. Like Shaggy, I don't take any extra salt on or in my food and I'm not sure if that helps or not. (I'm a lady so don't sweat at all
). Why don't you ask Ruth over on one of the Asics threads? It would be interesting to see what she says.
What ho, room for another one?
I'm largely just ideas shopping, as a spring marathon isn't really my 'A' target, though I have a couple planned (Worcester as a training run then maybe have a proper race at Stratford), but I'm going to have a crack at 3:29 one of these fine days so it'll be interesting to see what's involved.
Gazelle, those zero tablets I mentioned are for replacing salt lost through sweat.
simple enough to pop one into a bottle of water and have waiting at the end.
Shaggy- Yes i stretched after the run and in the evening, I've never stretched in the evening without doing exercise but it was quite good.
Scuba Trooper- Nice to see you back, peanut butter yuk! The word butter puts me off. Banana a day for me from now on hope it works. Well done on your 20 mile run. What distance will you be going up to?
Shaggy- I was thinking about long runs today, can you schedule a run longer than 20 mile for me please. I have never ran past 20 in training but think it may give me a boost of confidence, I keep having flash backs of cramp setting in last year and would hate it to happen again. Can't believe I'm having nightmares about London already!
Minni- Cheers I'll pop over to the other thread and ask.
Crash Hamster- Welcome to the thread. I have learnt so much in the past two weeks hope you can get the same benefit. Both Worcester and Stratford are close by, a friend of mine is doing Stratford so I will be there cheering on, let me know near to the time if you need me to hold drinks/gels ect for you. Have you done a marathon before? What Time ect???
Fit-Running Cat- Zero tabs are on my list
Today I did a recovery 3mile's
3 mile @ 9:18, 9:09, 9:10
Time 27:44
Avg 9:12
Avg hr- 136bpm
It was cold outside today so had a few layers on.Legs felt fine all the way, once home I did lots of stretching.
I'm planning to do 22 or maybe 23 at most, this week will be a more restful week and long run Sunday will be only 17mile but some of that will be a mp.
Shame about the peanut butter. Plenty of recipes in RW and all over the internet sure you will find something. Remember that on a long run you burn as many calories as a normal person does in a day in 2-3hours.
Crash Hamster Welcome and like the forward planning.
Gazelle - Your wish is my command.
Actually that will be happening anyway, but don`t worry about London you will be fine, all keyed up, ready to race and in confident form, so just stay chilled on that front.
Nice recovery run, and it sounds like all seems ok after yesterday s good effort, tomorrow will unwind your legs nicely with the distance and the strides.
Scuba Jantastic is a consistency challenge set up by the Marathon Talk podcast, you state how many runs per week you are going to do and log them. I said 4 per week and I couldn't bear to miss the last one.
I haven't run tonight, I got in late and have a lot to catch up on.
Puffy Junior has got a stinking cold and no handkerchief skills...
Thanks for the welcome, gentlefolk!
Gazelle, yes, I've done marathons before, but it's always been a little disorganised; my best is 3:47; I've got ambitions for a 3:14:59 one of these fine days, but not yet awhile
I'm currently building myself a base with lots of easy running, but looking for advice on how to add in 'quality' training when the time comes. That'll be for my Autumn marathon, if I get my base right.
Learning lots already, gaining lots of ideas!
Mr Puffy- This is my Jantastic, I could so easily not of gone out today, post your runs that your not sure of and we will get you doing them
Oh no ref Puffy Junior, hope you don't catch the cold/man flu!
Crash Hamster- Did you say that you have entered Worcester and Stratford marathon or just seeing what is around?
Shaggy- I can't believe I'm happy to go further than 20 miles, but not to much further in training please.
Mr P, hope you don't come down with it as it's known to cause MANFLU in adult males
Gazelle, thanks for the gel-holding offer, I may just take you up on that! Yes, I've entered Worcester and Stratford marathons; my spring/early summer target is an ultra stage race so I need the miles! My plan is to potter round Worcester (first event and it goes about a mile from my front door) and maybe try a little harder at Stratford.
Nice to get long runs done in company and with water stations
Crash Hamster- That's all Stratford has is water stations! I was quite disappointed,London was my first marathon with Stratford being my second marathon. I thought that they could at least have some gels or drinks but no. Stratford is a two lap course, I'm hopefully watching on my cycle so can go to various points on the course, all depending on how my legs feel after London which is a week before.
Mon77- Where are you? I normally log on during the day and have an excuse to chill for a few mins, hope your ok.
Rest day for me, 6 mile Tempo tomorrow morning can't wait for the frosty early morning start. What you done today Gazelle or are you running later.
Today's run was 5 miles easy pace with 5x75m Strides.
5miles @ 9:21, 9:08, 9:03, 8:41, 9:06
Avg 9:04 mm
Avg hr 158bpm
Total time 45:23min
It was blooming freezing out there today. I normally go out with gloves on and take them off after a mile but they stayed on throughout today. The clouds are full of snow and a few points in my run it attempted to fall but kept on stopping. Hope it stays away for tomorrows long run.
Shaggy - Just a quick question, I know you say run how you feel ect, well today my legs were fine and I could of ran at the lower end of the pace you have gave me(8:40-9:25mm) but if I do that I'm scared that I wont hit the targets for the rest of the week. Am I doing the sessions correct as above, so starting at the upper end of the pace and gradually upping the pace? Or should I just try and keep my pace at the lower end? Am i gaining anything from running at the upper end on these short runs or not? I think 30 seconds window is too much for me! What am I like. I just lack confidence and think if I push it will things go wrong and then I think if I don't push it I wont be doing my best. Hope it all makes sense. Does anyone else have this problem?
Gazelle, I spend most of my waking hours worrying about my pace
. Like you half of the time I worry about going too fast and then when I slow down I'm worried I'm not giving it my all...
CH welcome.
Mr Puffy hope you've avoided the cold.
11 miles easy for me tonight home from work with an extra loop...
Gazelle- did you not do any 20 milers before the last mara?
Mon77- you're back yippee, what are we all like, I'm glad it's just not me
ummm Just checking what I did/didn't do. It looks like the long runs were neglected a little bit, not sure why because I thought I liked them. What am I like, no speed work and no long runs
week 10- 18 mile run, week 12- 20 mile run, week 15- 20 mile run, All other long runs were under 15miles
oh no, I did wonder why Shaggy asked me if I enjoyed long runs! I was like "Yeah"
The light switch has just gone on in my head! That's why my 10k is a lot faster than my half/marathon times.
Well... I probably tend to do too many of them... can't help myself. Including running the whole distance in training.
I ran the whole 26 miles once before each of the 2 maras (including the first one) and probably did another 5-6 20-22 milers each time. Probably too much... Shaggy what do you think?
I just have days when I feel good and keep on going...and once you've done 23-24 miles there's always the temptation to round it off to 26.
However I must say that I always seem to recover quite well from long runs and have been lucky to avoid any serious injuries. Maybe I'm meant to do ultras...
Good afternoon everybody.
It sounds like some fun discusssions on here today, firstly all calm down and stop stressing, we have got lots of time to adjust all the little issues that get raised, so that is what we need to do.
Firstly paces,
Gazelle the pace ranges that you have are tailored for you and your current fitness level so staying within the range is what we need you to do, I would say look at the key sessions in your schedule and target those runs to try and get the paces right, aerobic runs should just be nice and relaxed and ran according to how you feel on the day and recovery runs are slow, so just go slow to let the run do the intended job.
Naturally you want to start the run at the slower end of the range as your body is cold and it takes time to get into the groove and if feeling good then finish at the faster end or if it all feels a bit crabby then stay at the slower end, no problems.
What we don`t want you to do is push on when you have a problem or an injury issue, then I want you to talk to me straight away. ok with that ?
So the penny is dropping
to achieve a 3:30 marathon you need a fair lick of speed coupled with a good amount of endurance and you must have put the work in to achieve that, lots and lots and lots of people convince themselves that they have done everything right and that they will run a 3:30 marathon, sadly when you have been at it a while, you can see that some people have not done the work and will be dissappinted come the big day.
Another thing people get wrong is doing to much, training to hard in the wrong arears or feeling great and doing too much before the big day and even though they won`t tend to see it, when they finally get it right, it all comes a bit clearer for them.
so what do we need to do.
Train correctly, following a properly structured schedule allowing for recovery time within that schedule.
Be consistent in that training and don`t miss the key sessions.
Run at the correct paces to achieve the aim of that session.
Do enough long runs at the right intensity to develop the endurance to get you around the 26.2 miles safely.
Maintain and improve your lactate threshold.
Be comfortable running at your target marathon pace.
Race at times throughout your training to confirm ability level and reinforce confidence.
Taper correctly.
Race sensibly.
Keep healthy throughout your training period by following good nutrition, hydration and injury prevention routines.
Keep focused and enjoy your training.
Don`t overdo it or blow away your chances of success for a false and short lived glory.
Thats about it.
10 Hills at running club to come tonight and a bit tired after early morning gym
The speed work is more important hence...
I did get my long runs in last time though, from 13 to 23 mostly in 1m steps so a good 7-8 over 15 miles
P&d book on its way in post
Thanks for the P&D spreadsheet I'm looking it over tonight.
And breath....... it's so simple when you put it like that Shaggy, what was we all worried for???
Lets see what mind games/ over analyzing my brain does on tomorrows long run!!
Hello...second rest day, ad/abductor twinge, the inner thigh one? Should be ok tomorrow.