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Are you inspired by Alex Vero's ambitions, or slightly insulted?
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What I am getting is the feeling from a lot of people who have been in this sport for longer than he has, trained at a higher level and accomplished an awful lot more that he isn't going to achieve his goals.
This isn't sour grapes on their part. It's realism.
It just shocks me at the sheer arrogance to say " well in two years I'll be able to run 2:15 for the marathon and beat some extremely talented runners who have trained all their life at a much higher level than me. Why will I be able to do that when no-one else in the country can? Well...nothing special really..."
It took Dan Robinson, one of the most talented runners around who came to the sport very late, 3 years to break 2:15, that was 3 years after running 29:30 for 10k, over 6 minutes faster than Vero!
I'm a realist, I have a 1 in a million chance of qualifying for the 2012 olympics, maybe less than that. That's as someone who has run almost 3 minutes faster than Vero over 10k, is younger and has had to train less to get to that level. To have someone suggest that's it's even possible to run 2:15 within 2 years from a much lower level just strikes me as totally insulting to all those who are putting their all into it and not running 2:15.
JEJ- I agree, sub 2:30 is possible for most healthy male 20-30 year olds providing they are willing to put a large number of years and training miles into it.
Just one last thing to add, an analogy of how I and I think many others view Vero's attempt...
Deciding to move a mountain by hand, Vero has yelled that he's going to move it extremely loudly and told everyone he knows that he will move this mountain, gotten a very nice shiny jacket, a new shovel, a hard hat and anything else he could think of and only then got on with it.
Totally ignoring the fact that when many others decided to move it...they just picked up the first rock and started working.
I do have a realistic beleive of what I am capable of - my many people's standards its relatively modest, but it suits me. In summary that boils down to an appreciation of which pbs are soft and implies a philosphy which is based on the believe, that although I will never run as fast as I have done in the past, there are certain distances at which I have every chance of running a bit faster than I did last year.
I'm not motivated to run faster by what training methods other runners use, if that was the case I'd be doing the same training as Bekela (they don't run much faster than that!). No, my approach is motivated by a continuing desire to understand how my body works and an understanding of the physiological benefits of different training methods.
In my time I've run considerably faster than Alex, but despite my best efforts have fallen considerably short of his ambitions - its that experience which influences my views.
When you read back, you'll actually find that the less cynical and kinder responses simply say, so he probably won't make it but what's the harm him trying?
About moving mountains... wouldn't it be funny if he did... with his shovel and hard hat... cos you'd have to eat some serious humble pie with double cream.
But I'm not going to mince words and cover my own back. I'll state it here and now. Alex Vero will not make the 2008 Olympic marathon team for Beijing.
As we are already seeing, he's not hitting his targets. If and when he fails, whether that be dropping out in advance or on the day itself, the only thing I would say to him is this "Congratulations on trying to run as fast as you can even though you didn't hit your target. I respect that. Please now give the proper and due respect to the DISTANCE, the PACE and the ATHLETES who train and run 2:15 marathons."
To return to the mountain analogy, I respect those who've moved their mountains, are moving their mountains, have tried to move their mountain and failed or even are just starting to move their mountain.
The only person I don't respect is the one saying " I'm going to move my mountain faster than anyone else can" whilst his own mountain is barely moved. I respect his efforts to move his mountain and in some ways I see that perhaps a new shovel might be a good idea, but at the end of the day unless he starts seriously moving that mountain, I'm not going to respect him.
It just boggles my mind. If someone said "I'm going to make the olympic 100m team for Beijing next year having never sprinted at any real sort of level before" what would you say to them? Trust me the marathoners are just as talented, the only difference is that it takes more years work.
Tom- nice to see you again. I'll try and drop you an e-mail tommorow!
I told him to his face he has a chance of going sub 2.30 but he will not make 2.15. Infact if his documentary ever gets published I may even be on it as he filmed me as he asked questions.
This still does not change the fact that he has achieved a lot relative to where he started, hell if he sticks it out he is young enough to train all the way to 2012.
For all the arrogance of a rather bold statement he is actually quite a pleasant chap to talk to.
Is long as you don't shout too loud about them??
I saw Alex Vero today running in Hyde Park (I wasn't running! I'd just finished a 20 miler
Anyone who realistically thinks he has even an outside chance of achieving his objective, or encourages his foolish notion is also being deluded. The reason why fantasists like Alex (and others!) can pursuade people that their dreams are realisable is by exploiting the fact that most of his supporters haven't the slightest notion what it takes to run a 2:45 marathon, let alone a 2:30, and as for a 2:15............
Anyone who wishes him luck in his efforts simply just doesn't get it. It isn't about luck,it isn't simply about simply wanting it more, its about talent (ie genetic disposition to being able to run quickly), its about quality and quantity of training, its about making mistakes and learning from them, its about staying injury free, its about time (a minimum of 5-6 years to even get near to Alex's target), its about hard work, long term commitment and perceverance, its about knowlege, learning, understanding and experience.
In summary, I can't work out who is the biggest fool - Alex for making promises he knows he can keep, or people who believe his promises, when he makes them.
And I hope that, if he does do 2:30 by Xmas, you'll give him some credit. If not, I'm sure he'll apologise for wasting your precious time.
Pug
Not only should he apologise for wasting my (precious) time, but so should all those other people who supported or believed him!!
The odds are almost inconceivably stacked against him though and the chances of him making the team are negligible but even if he fails he still gets his film made.
I think there is a little difference between being an ignorant fool and quite simply having the grace to wish someone well! In the highly unlikely event that he does make it, would the critical peeps have the strength of character to apologise or say well done to him? I just find the venom with which some people gleefully hope for him to fail uncomfortable. Its just not nice.
It seems like he has plucked an experiment in order to make a documentary about his attempt to achieve a sub 2:15 marathon and a Bejing place. To draw analogies with other sports, he might as well target a top 3 batting spot for the England cricket team in their attempt to regain the Ashes in 2009, or to play for Liverpool FC in the 2009 FA Cup Final.
In both other sports you could have the best coaches and other back up going and also have the utmost dedication to your cause and maybe get to semi professional level, depending on the level of talent you start out with.
It seems bizarre that he singles out marathon running as the one sport in which he thinks he can rise to world class standard in the space of two years. Why not any other sport?
I acknowledge he could get to a very good standard doing what he is doing and will always respect endeavour in running, but the bandying around of 2:15 marathon times seems a ploy aimed at getting publicity and financial support for his film making career, rather than a realistic assessment of where he might get to as a runner based on where he is now.
Hilly, you know that this concept of unrealist expectation is a subject on which I have very strong views, and I shall be developing it in much more detail on Friday 6th April - two years on from the 2005 Folkestone 10M - sub 50mins anyone?
At the risk of sounding reactionary (goes with the territory at my age), this idea of shouting it loud enough and wanting it badly enough at the expect of actually having the ability to deliver the goods simply reflects the "Fame Academy", "Big Brother", "Hell's Kitchen" television culture. Perhaps the best that Alex can aspire to, is to be briefly (much less than 15mins) famous for being that bloke "who thought he could run a 2:15 marathon off two years training..."
I had a brief experience with the real world of road running today... a sub 30mins 8k (6:00 pace) long leg in the midland 12man left me about 260th out of the 300 runners who also ran the same lap.... I wonder where Alex would have ended up
I have no idea about the Folkstone sub 50 you mention.
I personally couldnt care less whether he can run a 2.15,2.30 or 2.45 and I wouldn't be surprised if he is of the same opinion. As any of those times youd be proud to quote and they all take a shit load of work.
The unachievability of his goal is designed to provoke debate and get him noticed, this very thread is an example of what he is after. Whether you are pro his efforts or anti them it doesnt matter as long as you notice him.
whatever time he makes before he quits trying (and he will do as running achievements arent his primary driver) will be irrelevant if it elevates his documentary making.
I would bet big money that his website isnt about running in four years time.
sigh
and what a pity
Jason X - I think the fact we are having this debate is beneficial in itself. What people have posted on here is about the achievability of the 2.15 marathon, the culture of celebrity and the reasons why people think they can become elite at running but not other sports.
Surely then the debate has moved on from the individual you clearly don't rate on to a wide ranging interesting discussion.
I for one will look forward to watching his documentary should it ever reach our screens. It will make a change to the sh*t of celebrity big brother etc