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Beginner-based marathon advice with Mike Gratton
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Hi Mike,
Yesterday I did my first ever race, the Canterbury 10, and managed to get round in 1:19:07 on what was quite a tough and hilly course (for me at least!) This equates to a little faster than 3:45 and a little slower than 3:30 for the marathon. So my question is, should I try to push myself and go for a sub-3:30, and follow the sub-3:30 schedule, or do you think this would be too tough for a first timer?
Hi Mike
I currently have a bit of slight muscle discomfort, my left quad and my right calf, possibly strains/pulls. I can run through it but I can feel it, especially the quad, when I'm not running.
Am I ok to run through this or will I need to have time off to let it recover? any benefit in something like deep heat on them after stretching just prior to my run?
Or would strapping it up pre-run help?
Hi Mike
I wonder if you have any advice for a FLM first-timer and beginner runner struggling a little with fitting in runs? As a female, I am slightly reluctant to run on my own in the dark (I am behind a desk during daylight hours) and struggle to get onto my gym's treadmills whilst it's still full of resolutioners - plus there is a time restriction imposed by the gym, and I find it tricky and v different to running in the outdoors. I have found a group to run with on monday nights (usually 5-7 miles), wednesdays (usually about 5 miles) and I head out alone at the weekend for my long run (10 miles last week, due for 12 miles next). It has been pointed out to me that I should be incorporating speedwork, but the sessions with other people are set by them re speed and distance. Accordingly, all my runs are currently slow 10min milers, and don't know what to do re speeding up.
I am getting plenty of cross-training in - Tuesdays Body Attack, Thursday rest day (yoga type classes), Friday Attack and weights, Saturday British Military Fitness - but am worried that lack of speedwork will leave me struggling on the day. Have you (or anyone else) found a way around this? I'm sure that there is an answer, but just haven't had a eureka moment yet.
Many thanks for any suggestions you can give.
Alex
PS - will speedwork be more problematic for my arthritis and old injuries?
Hi Mike,
I picked up a 16 week training plan for the FLM and was able to join straight in at week 7 because of the work done before hand.
Did 3 hours run yesterday and easily managed 16 miles - however, if I try to up the pace at all, its as if I go over the edge from a stamina perspective and can't keep it up for even a mile.
I did manage to do 9 miles in an hour and a half and thought I was going to be ill or at least die horribly so the margin seems to be so small between sustainable and killable pace
I've done all the speed and interval work as well as hill sessions but I don't seem to be getting an improvement in speed only stamina
Is this normal - I am an old fossil anyway at 47 so am I expecting too much
I'm a marathon first timer, am following your 4hour schedule and doing ok but feeling pretty tired and went down with a virus last week. Ran 11 miles yesterday in about 1 hour 51 mins and it felt good especially with weather being so much better.
Can you tell me if the 4 hour schedule is based on treadmill training or general outdoor conditions because some of the speed training has been tough especiallly with the rain and wind and muddy conditions we've had recently?
Many thanks.
Hi Mike
im depressed, raced at dartford the other week and it was rubbish 71.11.
despite all the training i do i am not getting any better. i wonder where i am going wrong.
i train consistantly, motivated and rarely have time off apart from when i have a bad cold.
it has got to be what i do - heres my week at the moment
sun - 20M easy
mon - 5m easy
tues - speed work - rotate hills 6 x 2mins jog rec, 4M tempo (30mins) 4 x 1K (average 4.20mins i min jog rec)
weds - 5m easy
thurs 5m easy
friday - 10 m tempo (75-77 mins)
sat - rest
so whats wrong with it?. do you think that maybe my friday run shold be a modest run (8 min mile)insted of the current pace (7.30). i wonder if i over do things and undo any benifits.
the only other thing that needs to be addressed is my smoking and i am going to attempt to quit on monday 4th feb - have patches in the cuboard.
please can you see if i am making any glaring errors in my training. i am aiming for a 3.30 time.
Sarah,
It looks like you are trying to run the speed work too fast. Your half marathon time points to a 5hr+ marathon so trying to do speed work at 4.30pace is too difficult. You can still follow the 4.30 schedule but adjust the pace of the speed runs downwards to 5hr pace.
Lisa,
I think you need to see a physio with a bit more specialist knowledge of running injuries - initially your description made it sound like a sciatica problem but you will need someone with more expertise to check that. It is difficult to advise whether to run or not - if there is no pain that I suggest pressing on if there is then stop.
Faithfulred,
I would follow the 3.30 schedule as you are likely to improve to this by the time FLM comes around.
Canterbury 10 is indeed a tough course - it is my old training route from the 80's and we moved to the current course from a flat 2 lap city centre route because of the traffic volume that suddenly built up when they opened the big Sainsburys on the route.
Moscowflyer
You are going to get general aches and pains from training - the difficult thing is identifying the ones that are injuries or potential injuries. If you press on too hard with sore muscles an ache could become an injury so you need to balance your training to allow the muscles to recover and I suggest that you seek out a good sports masseur to help with the repair process.
Alex,
Fitting in training is something only the individual can cure - when I was teaching I used to run to the school and run home again to get the miles - some people I know get off the train a stop early and run home.
You appear to be doing sufficient strength work to give good conditioning so I don't expect adding speed work should be a major agrivator as long it is introduced gradually and progressively.
One solution is to introduce fartlek - fast burst - and return with a slow jog into the group you are running with run a bit more with them and then do another burst. As long as you tell the group what you are going to do I don't think they would mind - be careful that they don't change direction when you go shooting off - we used to just to annoy the faster runners.
Martin,
It sounds like you are running right on your threshold level so any change in pace upward or a steep hill will tip you over into anaerobic running which you can't maintain for long.
It's difficult to shift the threshold level substantially but it can be done by training at threshold level - I suggest doing mile reps at threshold level, a 20 min effort and finishing your long runs (last mile or so) at close to threshold level so you become more comfortable at this pace.
Hi Tina,
All the sessions are intended for outdoors but there is no harm in translating the session for a treadmill if the weather is bad.
Bazzo,
There is nothing wrong with your training - maybe just change the Friday session to Thursday to give a bit more recovery time if you are racing on Sunday.
I can't assess if the Dartford run is what you should expect or not from the training - I will need to know what your other recent results have been to have some idea - but if the result is worse than you expected it may just be that you are generally tired from the consitancy of your running and I would expect that you will adapt to the training load and feel fresher later in the training block.
In 1983 before LM I ran 49.30 for the Sittingbourne 10 in January in the middle of hard training and with no recovery days - in March I ran 47.11 in the Tonbridge 10 having switched to faster speed work and lots of faster road runs rather than slogging the miles on the country.
Good Morning Mike
I am in training for Paris in April, I have started to step up my long runs and completed my first half marathon a couple of weeks ago in a time of 2hr 08min, it was a good steady run at my marathon pace of around 10 mm. I treated the HM as one of my training runs and I really enjoyed it, however my question is this; I did all my usual streches after the run and my body felt worked but comfortable the next day except my head which felt like it had been beaten with a club! The headache was a bit like a sickly hangover headache and lasted the whole day. I went for a 15 mile LSR last night (2hr 45min) and again today my body feels a bit stiff but I have this awful headache, I just feel like I want to sleep it off (not possible, small child in tow) ...my shoulders and neck get tight when I run so I do pay attention to stretching them out and self massage after the run and on the run I drink 1/2 pint water and have 1 sis gel. Any thoughts would be most welcome...
Hi Mike
I'm a first time runner/marathoner and am schedule to run in the FLM. Have been followig the get you round schedule and completed my two hour run last monday in 2 hours. However, I was sick after that and have therefore missed training for a full week. I feel ok to run tomorrow, and realise that I mustn't skip weeks in the schedule. So I'm happy to carry on (2 hour 20 mins this weekend) as per before, but given that that puts me back by a week, what do I do further on in the schedule in terms of tapering off, etc. Do I taper off for one week less? Skip one of the longest runs (the 4 hour run) before tapering off? Thanks for your help...
Hi Mike
I'm a first time runner/marathoner and am schedule to run in the FLM. Have been followig the get you round schedule and completed my two hour run last monday doing 10 miles. However, I was sick after that and have therefore missed training for a full week. I feel ok to run tomorrow, and realise that I mustn't skip weeks in the schedule. So I'm happy to carry on (2 hour 20 mins this weekend) as per before, but given that that puts me back by a week, what do I do further on in the schedule in terms of tapering off, etc. Do I taper off for one week less? Skip one of the longest runs (the 4 hour run) before tapering off? Thanks for your help...
Dales Girl,
I may be that you are short on electrolytes as water and the gel won't replace them - it may also be due to tension in the sholders - try to drop your hands and arms loosely by your side to get them relaxed when you feel tension coming into you kneck then let the hands come up naturally to hip level keeping the hands held relaxed all the time.
Lucy,
It may depend on what caused the sickness - it doesn't sound serious - but you know feel fine then step back into the training and just continue with it as prescribed and just a little on a day to day basis until you are back into the swing. The taper is a long way off so don't start worrying about that at this stage - the important thing is to develop consistancy.
Thanks Mike, I do try and shake out my arms at intervals throughout the run so I will pay special attention to that next time. In terms of electrolytes do I top up before I run or do I replace when I have finished ?. I don't use a sports drink at the moment and as a recovery drink I use hot chocolate having read about the benefits of milk in recovery and chocolate is a cure all as we know. Can you recommend a drink? I am aware of Isostar, Gatorade and Lucozade but don't really know how to use them to gain full benefit. I did try SIS recovery once, after the Half Marathon and it wasn't good!
Dalesgirl,
Any electrolyte drink (I like SiS Go but any you are comfortable with) on the run will help then replace the salts through your food in your general diet - salty cheese like feta can help as well as bananas, orange juice etc and a sprinkle of salt on your food - I know the usualy advice is to cut out salt but a runners needs are different.
Thanks Mike
I did the running as part of my commute when the days were longer but, alas, the british winter just doesn't allow for long days in the office. I like your idea re running off from a group and returning for a bit of fartlek. This is an excellent idea, and will give it a whirl tomorrow. Thanks!
I shall also be careful it's in an area I know well - I can just see a couple of them doing what you suggested and 'disappearing' for fun!
Thanks again
Alex
Hi Mike,
Another one training for Paris here! I have run London last year and have done about 7 19mile runs since then, though only 1 in 2008. My time for my LSRs has sped up to about 9.50minmiles. Just wondering, last night I went for a 15 miler which I found tougher than my usual longer runs. I think this is because I was already sore from extra cycle commuting and a hard 9mile lactate threshold run 2 days before. Do you think the fact that I found 15 miles more exhausting than a well-rested 19miler means it did me almost as much good as a 19 miler? I just feel like I worked harder last night than i would in a Long run, and my pace was also 9.30mm. Your thoughts?
Thanks
Victoriria,
It depends - if it was harder because you ran faster then there is a training benefit, if it was harder because you were very tired then it may have a negative effect. This is the balancing act with training and difficult to judge but look out for a long term patern of tiredness and takea bit of a break if it seems you are digging a hole - if you bounce back in your next couple of runs then it is probable that it has been good for you.
Vague answer but it is part of the vague concept of 'reading your body'.
Another question Mike.
My LSR is taking me through at 8:40 pace (I'm aiming for a 3:45 FLM). This is comfortable enough but my heart rate is only averaging 70%. Is this ok for a LSR or should I be looking to increase the pace and get towards 80%?