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Beginner-based marathon advice with Mike Gratton
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Keep going lass,
The only way to get 5 & 10km times is to enter a race at each distance and do one - this gives you a starting point to base your training pace at. Once you start doing speed work it is likely you will see improvement quite quickly so you may need to race monthly to guage how things are going and adjust the speed wark accordingly.
Initially do your speed work as fartlek - which means 'speed play' a run-as-you-please style that you can adjust during the session. Typically choose a varied route and put in sprints at various distances and speeds, taking in up and down hill sections and adjusting the recovery walks/jogs according to the effort made in the previous sprint. If you do this well for 30 to 40 mins you will have put in a very good interval session without it being regimented.
Do it with a partner of equal ability to bring a bit of edge to the efforts and you'll get more out of it.
Still doing your schedule Mike and the going is getting tough in terms of harder sessions! Interestingly the longer runs are getting easier and faster (done more than you suggest) and my conversion times from 10k upwards are better for the longer races. I have lost some 'top end' speed so things seem ok for the 26.2 even if I can't bang out a fast 5k at present!
Sue
Thanks Mike
I have started doing some interval speed work over the last 4 weeks or so but on the treadmill and I am starting to see my longer slow runs getting quicker as a result, although I feel as though I should be doing them slower!!
I suppose that must mean I'm getting fitter!
I have entered a 10K in June so will be abl to use that as a benchmark.
Many thanks.
Hello Mike
My question is I've had an ankle twinge for a couple of months but still been able to run up until week last Sunday, when after 16 mile run my ankle really hurt and I've not run since. I've got a 20 mile race planned for March 16 but my question is will I still be 'run fit' to be able to complete it when I won't have trained for 3 weeks. I had run up to 19 miles the week before the 16 miler? Am naturally really worried.
Thank you
Mike,
I am doing my first FLM and have been following the RW schedule for sub 4 hr 30. Training had been going really well (I comfortably ran 1hr 52 mins at the Watford half) until I hit 16 miles and a niggle with my hip has meant I am undergoing physio and retraining on my running style to correct a weakness/stability round that area. I haven't been able to train for a week and I am now into my second week out.
How do you recommend that I adjust the last 5 weeks of my training schedule once I get back to running next week given that I am two weeks behind and want to be marathon fit?
Best,
Rebecca
Hazel,
You won't be at your fittest but if you keep the pace right down and use it for training you may struggle but would get something from it.
More important is if your ankle can take it and the only way of finding that out is a trip to the physio for advice.
Rebecca,
It is important not to try to cram in training to catch up - start with easy running and I like to do short shuttle sprints to ease the legs back into a full stride - 8 - 10 x 60m at a controlled sprint thinking about form with walk back recovery.
You may be able to get a couple of longer runs in the last 3-weeks - anything around 2-hrs in duration will do - and you should be more-or-less back on target but may need to reassess targets although your Watford half time gives you a wide margin in your favour to achieve 4.30.
Mike- another injury- ridden person- aiming for Edinburgh- still 11.5 weeks to go. Developed ITBS after stupidly going straight from a week's ski trip to a 17km LSR. I was doing Hal Higdon intermediate I, hoping for 4 hrs. I think the consecutive days running is too much, so I've switched to FIRST plan, and managed to do some speed work the other day on the treadmill with no ill effects. I can do x-trainig with no problem, and have done 2hr long slow elliptical on the last 2 weekends. I'm worried any attempt at a LSR will stir things up at present, and seeem better able to cope with short, fast bursts than long slow running. Do you think that the elliptical gives anything like the benefite of the LSR if I go for the same times and same heart rate zones? and try to defer the LSR for another couple of weeks- I feel like I'm getting the metabolic benefits, withourt trashing my legs, or should I just take the risk, and give it a go- if I don't get the LSR's going soon, I'll never manage Edinburgh.
(It's my first marathon, furthest I've ever run is 18miles, once, in december)
Am also stretching, working on gluts, taking NSAID's and strapping leg up with a DIY version of the pattstrap.
I'm booked in for a 1/2 marathon on 2.5 weeks time, and not sure whether to bother with that.
Mile,
Having messed up in Amsterdam last year (4:51) I am determined not to do so again. I am hoping for sub 4.30 as I had hoped for before but I find that the LSRs difficult as they seem too slow until the last mile. I did Reading on Sunday in 1:51:14 (a PB by over 2 mins) and have the San Domenico 20 this Sunday which will be the test.
Will there be any advantage in doing another 20+ or so mile LSR between Sunday and 13th April?
Mike - This is my first Marathon and training was going well until about 2 weeks ago, when I seemed to hit a real wall. I did the Holtelympia 10k, and did a PB at 45.50 but since then I have really struggled with 'dead leg' syndrome, and even had to cut a run short last week, undeard of for me! I am doing the Silverstone Half this Sunday, and just wonder what effort I should be doing this at. Should I be racing it, and really trying to test myself and set another PB, or should I be taking it steady?
Tricialett,
Any exercise done in your normal training zones will have the same cardio vascular effect - what you won't get is the biomechanical effiecency that you get from practicing your event and the adaptation you need to the stress of running on the roads.
You obviously need to feed back to running gradually and stick with the fitness work until such time you are comfortable increasing running.
musketeer,
I would do one at the end of March and then have a 2 week taper.
Nikki,
I don't think there's much point doing a half at this stage unless you are going to do it as well as you can so I would say go for it but give yourself plenty of time to recover before resuming full training again - you shouldn't make any hard efforts all the time you have leg muscles that are sore to the touch.
Hi Mike
Is it possible for a 56 year old, who only started running 7 years ago, mainly fell running and one FLM last year, to achieve under 3hrs 15 mins. good for age (GFA) and is it fair that the age group is 40-60 years of age. Last year I followed the 3 hour schedule, reached 20 miles at 2hrs 40mins, but a stomach/back problem caused me to finish in 4hrs 11 mins, (target 31/2 hrs). Training for this year is again 3 hour schedule. Did the Brass Monkey half mara. in 1hr 39 mins and I am running 22 miles in 3hrs 5 mins and have done 6 long runs of 20 miles plus. Any advice to save time or to quicken up.
Hi Mike,
I'm having problems determining my target race pace for my first marathon.
I am 48 years old, started running 4 years ago and usually get under 1hr 58 mins for a half-marathon. I am following a 4 hr schedule and have recently completed a half-marathon (Watford - at Marathon Pace - 2hrs) and 20 mile race (Bury St Edmunds- last 10k at Marathon Pace - 3hrs 15 mins). I have now done 2 long slow runs at 20miles and 1 at 22 miles and a recent hilly 10k tempo run in 52 1/2 mins.
My main concern is that I am 12 kgs overweight and that my shorter race times will not translate to a 4 hour marathon. What should my target pace and strategy be?
Stephen
The Broker,
Whether you can run the GFA time or not depends on so many factors from your training to your genetic potential as well as you age and experience. On the surface it would look like it is possible for you to do it but the recent half marathon differential is a bit tight for a 3.15 performance at the moment and you would ideally need to be close to a 1.30 half to make it a safer bet.
I'm not really up to date on the GFA qualifying bands so will take the opportunity to skip that question!
Stephen,
A 4.20 marathon looks a safer bet, but if you can shift the weight significantly before FLM it could improve your prospects since the extra oxygen and energy needed to move the extra weight adds quite a few seconds per km.
You should avoid dieting while training hard but look at where you can improve the quality of your food intake and reduce fats and refined sugars while at the same time maintining a high level of complex carbohydrate for energy.
Mike,
I'm running my first FLM this year, training was going well until I picked up a cold and didn't train for 3 weeks. I ran a half marathon in 1hr 48 (which was my first run after 3 weeks off) last weekend and ran 20 miles in 2hrs 50 this weekend. I felt tired but not exhausted at the end of the 20 miler and it was a hilly route (if that makes any difference)
I was originally hoping to run 3:45 or better for the FLM, is this still realistic and what should I spend the next 4-5 weeks doing to give myself the best chance of getting my speed back?
Mike - Have made good recovery from injury and back on track with 4 30 schedule. I usually run my local 10k each year, its such a good event and usually know others taking part. Problem is it falls 2 weeks pre FLM when we have our first taper to 17miles.
I can run there and home its within easy distance 2 miles to start, 3-4 home although I could add to these? what do you suggest? Thinking it may be a good boost to take part.
Hi Mike,
I've had a problem with my right foot over the last couple of weeks, which has put me a little behind on my training. I completed my longest run to date at the weekend of 17 miles. However, I started to experience a few niggles with my right knee in the week and this seemed worse during my long run at about 13 miles. It wasn't until I finished that I've realised this is worse than I thought. It's on the right side of my knee and is quite painful to walk up and down stairs. Can also feel it walking on the flat.
My plan over the remaining weeks for my LSR was 19,21,17,13. I am going to book an appointment with a physio asap, but do you think my chances of running the FLM are now doomed with just less than 5 weeks until the big day.
Many thanks
Becca
Mike
Firstly, apologies - I know my question is a variation on a theme you have answered already for others...
I am a beginner runner training for my first FLM, and had entered a local race (8.2 or 16 mile) on 30 March. Accordingly, my LSRs look as follows (I am quite slow, so hoping to finish under 5 hours);
Last Friday 7 March - 18 miles (that hurt!)
Sat 15 March - 20 miles
22 or 23 March (not yet decided) - 20 miles
Sun 30 March - race/start of taper
Sun 6 April - 10 miles (taper)
Sun 13 April - !!!
I had originally entered the 16 miler but a friend who knows what he's talking about (a fit, fast, ultra runner) has advised that I should switch to the 8 miles as, although a bit short for the taper, he feels that the 16 mile run is too far to do in race environment 2 weeks before the big day. I am wondering whether I should go a step further and pull out of the race altogether (and just do 16/17 miles run on my own, like a normal LSR), or would it be better to get the shorter 8.2 mile event done for 'race' environment practise? By way of background, I am running 3 non-LSRs during the weeks (and cross-training the other days), but not getting in as mileage outside the LSR as I would like due to time restrictions with my job.
Hi Mike
Just popped in to say hello! Not been posting for a while due to relocation, but saw this thread to day and thought I'd say hi.
I'm not doing FLM this year, doing Paris instead. It's a week before FLM so me and BR are going to watch FLM. That'll be nice knowing we've done ours and can juse enjoy watching all the people we know doing it.
I did a 20 miles race last Sunday and was 1st lady in a pb of 2.14.52. I wasn't racing it to start with. I went out at below marathon pace/HR then gradually upped the pace so that by 9 miles I was at marathon HR. I then kept at that until 2 mles to go before pulling away from the lady running with me to win by 34 secs. Sweet
I'm doing Eastleigh 10k this Sunday and hope to do well as I'm tapering off for this one, but we'll see. Then Paris is very close.
That's the update on my training and where I am. How's things with you?
Bazzo
Yes yes and yes! Last week's 18 miles was agony. The arthritic joints are really feeling it, as is the metatarsia, but the recent long runs have seen the addition of 'runner's knee', a tight ITB (and sore backside on left side), and a creaking right achilles! I have been taking my diclofenac, although this doesn't seem to make much difference, so am working on the 'mental' pain management.
All good fun. I just remind myself that this is something I've always wanted to do, and am lucky to be fit and able enough to be taking part. I'm sure we'll be overjoyed when we cross that line, whatever state we're in, on the 13th!
Two 20 milers to do and then, must admit, am looking forward to the taper. I'm glad I'm not the only one, as was worrying if there was something wrong with me for looking forward to it...
Alexandra Campbell,
Interesting question you have and you have made me think twice so I will be interested in Mike's response. We must be doing the same 8 or 16 mile race and I am now thinking twice about it as I know that in a race environment I will struggle not to give it my all. I have thought about maybe doing the first loop (8 miles) conservatively and then gradually increase speed over the second loop, running hard for the last 3 or 4 miles. I did the Reading half marathon last week and it took me almost a week to recover. However last year a did a good 10 mile PB two weeks after a the Great North half but that was only 10 miles. Having never ran a marathon maybe 16 mile hard will be too much. Maybe I'll use it to discipline myself not to go too fast and get carried away with the race, which will be useful training for the marathon in itself. For a simple sport, it's all so complicated!!
Hi Astride
Isn't it? There seems to be so much to learn...
I don't know if it makes a difference, but I wonder if my friend has advised me to drop the distance because I am a beginner, so these longer distances are all new to me, and my body is only just getting used to them. Perhaps, if you're a more experienced runner, the potential toll of a 16 mile race wouldn't be the same...?
Let's see what Mike says, and good luck with both the FLM and the breakfast run - whichever distance you end up on!
Alex
Hi, two questions. I am running Lochaber Marathon at the end of April. I am supposed to be running the Alloa half marathon in 2 weeks time. Should I run this as a marathon paced run to test my race pace, or race it as a half, given that I still have 4 weeks to recover before the race?
Secondly, I am not sure the best race pace to aim for in the race. I have done a 1:41 half marathon 18 months ago. At the start of this training cycle I ran a 1:44 half, just off base training with no taper. I ran a 17 mile LSR this weekend. After 7 miles at 9:00 pace I ran 6 faster miles with times of 7:57,7:52,8:01,7:53,7:52, and 7:36 followed by four miles at 9:15 pace to recover. I have so far run a couple of 20 milers, and two 18 milers in the build up, and hope to get in at least one more 20 miler. I was thinking I might try and run the race at 8:20 pace. Do you think this is reasonable with my current training load, or should I wait and see how I feel after Alloa?
hi Mike,
my traingin is going well at the moment but just trying to plan what pacing group to follow for FLM.. i ran 18 miles on sat in 3 hrs 17 mins.. shoudl i try sticking with the 11 min mile people?