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Wednesday 8th October 2008
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da na, da na...
Not sure why I am starting the thread, as..
What: Rest
Why: Taper and this is marked 'rest'
Last Hard: Saturday
Have a great day...
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morning
busy this week but popping in to wish NZC a safe and happy trip, keep us posted on the happenings
2 miles yesterday and may get chance for a little outing again today. settled into a mode of feeling comfortable and painfree while doing it but stiff/acheyness but a little while after.
nearly forgot - wow gobi! excellent trip at the weekend
Morning All
What: Nowt
Why: Tapering
Last hard: Sunday
Last Rest: Saturday
Have picked up a head cold, not desperate and hoping that it goes fast as I have a marathon on Sunday.
Enjoy your day
morning
What: 5.something quite fast for me
Why: why not
Last hard: that was
Last rest: monday
Have a good day all.
Interesting hearing peoples view of DOMS
What: 12.5 d&d
4-8 lunchtime
Why: easy day
Last hard: Sunday
Last rest: 29th September
Who would like another thought provoking training discussion?
Morning all,
What: rest
Why: Over did the distance yesterday as the person deciding where were would be running got 5 miles and 6.8 miles mixed up (my collegue shall remain nameless). Was supposed to be a light recovery run from Sunday's HM.
Last hard: Sunday
Last resy: Monday
I learnt alot from yesterday's dicussion. What's the next topic then?
What: small bit of core d&d / 9 steady at lunchtime / club pm (either tempo or PMP).
Why: Base.
Last hard: ?
Last easy: Y'day.
Lyrics: Yes.
Nice discussion yesterday on DOMS. Wardi, yes, anti-inflams apparently even lengthen the recovery time.
Blisters - Atkins diet for taper? Depletion I presume?
Morning everyone from sunny Devon - shame I won't be out running!
What: More RICE
Why: Day 13 on the bench
Last run: 14 days
Still improving, still applying the ice. May end up coaching on the track this evening; if not more decorating at home.
Gobi
Enjoyed the DOMS debate; please start a new one.
Gobi - yes please.
Peahead - yes we had studied the results for the last 3 years and gone through your AD profile last night
What: 3 miles am / 5 miles lunchtime / 6 miles pm
Why: having fun
Morning folks.
Do I sense a new lyrical streak starting?...suppose BR will come along in the next day or two with some warblings from that old bloke he likes and put an end to it...
We've actually got a decent day of weather forecast here in Glasgow (it'll never last), so it'll be a couple of runs today...it'll be 4 or 5 easy miles at lunchtime, then a club session on the roads this evening (10 x 600 @ 5k pace with 75secs recoveries). Just keeping the legs ticking over with some quickish stuff.
Have a great day.
Hiya, tried posting yesterday but home PC kept falling over...Interesting stuff on DOMS, I'm not at all scientific, but I appreciate reading the various insights...
Yesterday had my last ever OU exam - managed to write for 3 hours, so pretty sure I've got a half decent score, just need to wait until December for the official confirmation. Speaking of which, good luck Mike for Friday.
Managed a double yesterday, wife said "why don't you go for a run to clear your head before the exam" so notched up just a couple of miles to think through European Governance. Then club last night. Tough session (on thr rugby fields) Pyramid 200m,400m,600m,800m,1000m,800m,600m,400m,200m all with 200m recoveries. Found it tough going, but perservered and glad I wore my off-roaders. Legs a litte tired this morning.
Today - 4-5 easy miles recovery
What: 7.5 miles
Why: Mini Taper
Last hard: Yesterday
Lyrics: Nope
Yesterday's lyrics: Sweet Child o Mine by Guns n Roses
Have a good one.
Dustin - not me! When I did my one year of OU I got so stressed I never went back! I would like to but only if I didn't have to work full time. Is it Wabo who's got an exam?
Resting and restarting training after a focus race(usually a marathon on these forums)
I have a theory that
1. people over rest
2. people then try to go back into hard training too soon.
Many of us have been scared by phrases like
A mile a day for recovery
2 hard races a year is more than enough
In my mind this often leads to injury.
I believe that after a few days you SHOULD go running even if you have a little DOMS but should just run easy. Furthermore that this process should carry on until you have no leg pain. At this point do some speedwork.
So the point
It may hurt and it may be slower than normal BUT the issues at this point are largely mental because you are programmed to believe you should not be recovered yet.
Your views .....
1 - I agree.
2 - snap
A mile a day for recovery is hokum.
Personally, next year I will be looking at 2 target races for the year, but that is different in my book to 2 hard races as I race every race as hard as I can on the day.
Post NF, I walked a bit Monday (I believe this is better than running for me the day after a mara), jogged Tuesday, and covered ~1/3 of my normal weekly mileage in the first week, with nothing until the Sunday quicker than recovery pace (and even that was only a steady run). I still have done no speedwork persay (other than 3-4 miles @ ~PMP) 2 1/2 weeks later. Admittedly, the recurring lurgies ensured I kept myself in check, but it was still the aim....
To throw something else into the pot though, Khannouchi apparently wouldn't go near a track for at least 4 weeks post-mara (agrees with your 2nd point), but post-mara wouldn't even run for a bit (few days to a week I believe). If you have just two target races and really thrash yourself, this may be beneficial to allow mental freshening up as much as physical recovery.......
Now, a return question, in relation to your point 2, what do you class as hard training?
Morning!
Will read back properly over DOMS stuff later (I did see the start of the conversation yesterday - people saying that tapering was part of the cause?)
On Gobi's question today.... I've tended to go back running after all my marathons and triathlons for the last couple of years - even got up early and did an hour on the bike the morning after IM Nice this Summer. I'm convinced the slow runs starting the day after help my recovery a lot. However, I do think my recent injury niggles might have been avoided had I held back at BPTT the week after IMF (I felt recovered....) - I should have held back for another week or two.
Gotta go have a really horrid day at work now
Enjoy yourselves out there!
Gobi: Ok here we go
I'm pretty well with you on this one. Personally I never take more than three days break even after a Ultra. The mantra a mile a day for recovery as per my reading is meant to be easy running days for each mile, though I believe that to be too long and i feel that I have always recovered even from the loony 90 milers within 3 weeks. There is no way I'm going to do speed work before legs feel normal again, though having said that i have done speedwork 4 days after running a marathon but then I didn't have any DOMS.
Two hard races a year ( I assume that your talking marathon and beyond here), perhaps if your an elite but for mere mortals I don't think that the percentage loss in performance would be significant. I run on average 6 marathons / ultras a year and my marathon PB came 8 weeks after a previous marathon. My 1/2 marathon PB came 10 days after my marathon PB! Mental attitude plays a huge part but equally I believe that your level training has a lot to do with it. If your a 35 mile a week runner your more likely to take longer to recover from a marathon than the 70 mile a week runner. Equally I believe that the number of long runs you do is also important ( I know several 70 mile a week people who rarely go beyond 15 miles) I always seem to recover quicker when I have done more long runs before the target race, by which I mean perhaps as many as 8 x 20miles + in the two months before I taper.
In conclusion I think as Gobi suggests too many people think that they should be tired because they ran a marathon but in reality they have been brain washed into believing that.
I look forward to others thoughts!
Hi! Interesting stuff on DOMS etc. Am reading all with great attention.
What: 3 and a bit miles D&D this am, circuits pm
Why: After 12 weeks painfree I think can start to build up mileage, but am very cautious, hence the 'bit' only after 3 miles. My aim is to take one year, from July 2008 to July 2009, to build up my mileage to 30/40 per week, an ideal week would be 10-10-15 - only then I shall think about racing. This may seem very cautious but am trying my best to avoid injury by being patient and take it slowly. Hopefully this strategy will work.
Last hard: It has to be yesterday morning's steady 9 miles in a double scull. Or Monday night ergo? Hard for running... mhh haven't done that in a goood while ...
Last rest: Spending last evening on the sofa, eating pizza and ice cream while watching repeats of Friends surely counts as rest.
HW - ooo er missus. shame I missed out
DD - Think you're right in that most novices think that they should be tired after a mara and therefore should take it easy. After my first I left it 3 days before a light run and was fine. However, 6 days later I went on a quick paced long road bike session and had to slow (didn't fell as i had the energy). But have people have mentioned, I think alot of it is mental attitude. Yes you can go out, but don't leave it too long.
As for the number of races. I'm not that quick as you guys and gals out there so i tend to treat most if the races and proper races and put my all into it (probs about 8 a year). Having said that, it comes back the mental thing - I strongly feel I have yet to find my inner all and really make a mental effort at a race.
Ooooh I love a good debate, heated or otherwise. Unfortunately posting will be intermittent for a while. Frankfurt Book Fair looms on the horizon - always a busy time of year for me - also we are off oop north today to see our kid and me mam (note use of vernacular).
Hills last night: A fairly steep approx 150 metres with a properly steep final 30, which was the real killer. Walk back. X 6.
Done at speed as befits sprinters.
The big boys did 8.
Back on the track but still in flats, 2 mins steady fast, 1 min jog, 1 min fastish to finish.
The usual DOMS this morning for me. Does it still count as delayed if the onset is in less than 24 hours?
V. interested in your sprinters session as reported yesterday Gobi. Haven't got time to comment properly at this minute.
I shall keep posting the details up for you
G
Mr.S. has just reminded me that the 2mins, 1 min, 1 min at the end of our session last night was supposed to be jog, walk, jog. I was at the back - with one bloke - and went through 400m at 1:45 - ie 7:02 pace.
Yeah right - jogging.
LOL sharkie!
Interesting discussion on training after a marathon. I'll 'listen' and maybe take a different approach post-Amsterdam.
As sharkie said about DOMS - what if the onset is in 24 hours or less? My legs were mashed on Sunday after Saturday's long run. I only hope the effort helps me with Amsterdam, and that it wasn't too much too close to the race.