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Lucozade Sport Super Six: Wotsit (sub-4:30)
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I was interested in your comments about the gel as I've never tried them. The thought and look of them just makes me gag! Maybe I shall have to try and get over my phobia.
Thanks Nick - am soaking up the praise
Morning all!
RSA - I'm coming over your way for some flat running. Or manybe I'll visit my brother in law in Ipswich, they can't have too many undulations?
Pig - damn that achillies. Thanks for the compliment though. I'm not feeling all that competent today, having been late in for work this morning and having not got one of my sets of marking done.
Redhead - its mind over matter with gels. I read an interesting article about Paul McKenna's way of stopping you wanting to eat chocolate, which was to visualise your favourite covered in something grusome. Then when you see your favourite again you conjure up the grusome image and the need to eat it disappears. I do the opposite with gels. I think positive thoughts about them, then they're not quite so horrid. Actually, texturally (and thats the bit I have the biggest problem with) the lucozade ones aren't so bad. They're more wallpaper paste than egg white.
Listen, I could have been *WAY* more graphic than egg white.
Slippery, slightly opaque white body fluid....
Actually Abs, I have not a clue where Bishops Hill and London Road are in Ipswich - having never yet managed to get over to visit my brother in law. But we do have a killer London Road hill in Worcester. I'm not ever running up that one.
Pilates tonight. I hope she's gentle with us. Its wishful thinking, I know.
Interested in Nick's comments re training runs beyond 3:15. This is a real issue for us slower runners, where you can't do the prescribed 20-miler without running longer than 3:15 - for me it's nearer 3:30. Looking back at my training for Abingdon last autumn I was so focused on the 18-20 mile runs, which really did exhaust me, that I didn't do many runs in the 12-16 mile range.
Is it better to do plenty of 2-3 hour runs than worry about the 18-20 milers?
Oh, and I faded very badly at Abingdon from about 18 miles.
Hi Wotsit just checking in to check up on you
I've been laid up poorly for most of the week and haven't run since Sunday. Ah yes, and on Monday when I saw the race pics, vowed (a) never to run with a size 10 friend again and (b) to shift some baggage. Which yukky bug has helped me with 
Just wanted to say how fab your weekend session sounded, and what a **star** you are for getting out and doing it ... I'd have been beside myself with fear, but what an opportunity eh?
Keep up the great work and have a great weekend.
Eva, Nick may be back to give you a difinitive answer, but I know more 2-3 hour runs is what he has planned for me. Part of me is joyful, because I found the 20milers wiped out my whole weekend and a not insubstantial part of me is scared... but he knows what he's talking about, so I'm putting my trust in him entirely.
HairyThistle - hope you're on the mend now. Alibugs, my partner in crime, had a similar thing a couple of weeks ago. Not fun. Thank you for the kind words, but I've got to say, it was *fabulous*! I failed in my mission not to sound over-exciteable and slightly like a lunatic on video (again) because they caught me coming off the track and Nick had just finished saying lots of good things about the session, so I was all pleased with myself. Perhaps I'm just going to have to admit defeat on that one? I'm hoping other people are seeing enthusiasm where I see mania
Its Interval Night tonight. Tonights' run is:
45 mins, to include 4 x 5 mins at threshold effort built in with a 2 min walk jog recovery in between each effort
I'm just going to program my Garmin to beep at me at the right places. I love my Garmin. I might need to get a life soon...
My name is Wotsit and I am not Superwoman. Today my body has reminded me of that fact.
I did not want to run tonight. I considered lying and saying I'd done it and just staying home, but thought that rather unfair. I am tired.
So, intervals, didn't really happen. I got to about minute 3 of the first one and thought I might pass out. I hurt everywhere, my calves ache, my feet ache, my thighs ache, my head aches. My garmin beeped away happily to itself as my threshold became a plod and my recovery became a shuffling stagger. I had nothing in my legs. I stopped for a small sob with a mile to go but felt it not that productive, so dragged myself home. My overall pace was slower than my LSR on Monday.
I think I might go to bed now
Wotsit - you are so not alone. I have had many a run like that .... that is all part of the journey and as i once read ''if we do not experience the lows of running, how can we truly appreciate when things go well''. Do i practise what i preach, No i also sob but i sob when i do well, naff and most in between so there is no hope.
You done great to go out.... you did not want to run but still went out- hang in there, tomorrow is another day and i bet your next run will be the complete opposite.
Wotsit - you'll have runs like that and don't let it get you down. You went and 'did' regardless of outcome. Take the positive from it, not the negative. The positive is that you trained, when without this chance you may have not bothered?
I hope tomorrow gives you chance to recover. Don't beat yourself up
Thank you Abs and Pig. I'm feeling better after an ovaltine and a lot of soothing from Wickett.
Pig - I hope you're not watching Jamie at the moment.
Don't forget you put that extra run in this week too Wotsit. You're training hard, some of them won't be great runs. And you did go, that's very important.
Well done Lady!
At least your long run this weekend is a bit shorter. Hope that that goes ok.
Thank you all. Do you know, today I'm thinking that maybe the bext bit of winning this prize wasn't the lovely freebies but was actually having everyone giving me loads of praise during the good times and support for the cr4ppy times. Its such a huge motivation to keep going out and giving it my all.
Its a rest day today and I'm very glad of it. I'm going to spend the evening cuddled up on the sofa with my husband for the first time this week.
Before then, I'm off to my local running shoe guru with an armful of shoes so I can get them sorted out once and for all. Nick, I promise I'll get the ones that fit best, even if they are pink
(((Wotsit)))
Your honesty is what is going to make you a great super sixer. We ALL have runs like that and so we can all identify with what you're feeling. If you just skipped through to the marathon never having had a bad day or a crap run, we'd wonder what was wrong with US!
We don't want to read about how easy it was for you - we want the whole story!
Enjoy your rest day and remember we're all behind you. This is a good thread -keep it up!
Hi Helen,
Please dont worry about last nights session. Its gone and is all history. Look at your last 5-6 weeks - you will then see just how far you have already travelled. Any coach writing a schedule should know that over a 12-16 week period there will be moments of physical tiredness, lifestyle chaos and unexpected colds, niggles and blips. It is always the overall picture and general direction that matters for any athlete with their progress. As all who have read your updates will have noted; everything has been possitive and forwards. Last night's session was just part of the overall journey and I know you will bounce back this weekend and next week.
You can now also understand why I try to make every third or fourth week easier for an athlete when training well. Tiredness can creep up on you or arrive suddenly if nutrition and sleep are not correct. You are due an easier weekend and really deserve this. I will always ask any athlete when they have experienced unexpected tiredness to also review their nutrition and sleep patterns over the last 3-5 days, the answer can often be found.
So enjoy a gin with your lucozade this weekend and celebrate how well you have been running. You didn't run well last weekend by fluke, it just doesn't happen like that in running. You can only produce what you have got and you ran well last weekend because actually that is how fit you are!! I am sure others will read this thread and definitely experience the same rollercoaster emotions. My honest advice to all athletes when feeling tired whilst warming up for a session or on the day of a session is for you to take a rest day or replace it with an easy 30 minute slow recovery run. Only run sessions and long runs when feeling relaxed, full of energy and in control, otherwse, you are entering the land of diminishing returns and risk of real fatigue, injury and illness.
Have a good weekend,
Nick
Sympathies, Wotsit. Wouldn't it be nice to know what brings on those terrible, energyless runs. And also - though rare for me - those days where it's all effortless and you float along and you just feel like you can go faster and faster.
If this is the end of week 4, isn't there a 5M or 10K race scheduled for you, Wotsit, this weekend? I'm doing the Watford half, which the organisers pretend is undulating. Last year I heard someone say at the bottom of yet another hill 'The last time I saw a hill this steep I had skis on'. This year we might have weather fit for skiing - forecast temp -2 to +2, chance of snow, winds 17mph. Lovely.
Hi EVA,
Just wanted to quickly explain why you don't need to run for longer than 3 hours to 3 hours 15 mins for your long runs in training leading up to the marathon. I see so many runners looking to run between 3 and a half and 6 hours for a marathon who arrive at the start line of their target race (London etc) already tired and in an area of prolonged fatigue. Remember, once you are out training at any intensity for near to 4 hours of more, you are actually entering the world of ultra-running. Runs of longer than 3 hours 30 mins require longer periods of recovery and it takes more time for the body to repair at a cellular level. Many marathon performers don't realise their body has not recovered and despite feeling well in the weeks leading up to the big day, suddenly struggle from 18-20 miles onwards. They often think it's because their endurance was not enough and therefore put in even more long and longer runs for their next marathon. In fact, the reality was that the taper leading to the big day was just not enough to recover from too many long runs exceeding 3 hours in training.
I would therefore always advise one or two long runs between 3 and 3 hours 30 mins, maybe in the final six weeks before the taper, but would definitely encourage a good number of 2-3 hour runs which also include marathon pace built in in sections perhaps within the last 10 weeks.
Remember- the key is arrive at the start line totally fresh, full of energy and with the body's cells totally recovered and ready for action. You will then achieve your target if the elements are on your side.
Very Best,
Nick
(((Wotsit)))) You are a star and dont forget it
If you are still looking for a good sports bra I found one that took me through all my long runs and the London marathon last year with no rubbing or chafing and excellent support for all cup sizes. I have put the link below but incase it doesnt work it is on the less bounce website on the Anita and Falke sport bras page and is called Anita Racer Back Sport Bra. I am a B/C cup and find that the racer back styles give more support and less movement. Its £29 and I think worth it (Black looks better for longer!
) Another tip sometimes its better to go down a back size for a snugger fit. So maybe try your normal size and the back size down but same cup to see which is best fit.
http://www.lessbounce.com/acatalog/Anita_Racer_Back_Sport_Bra.html
Wotsit, what Abs, Pig, Liverbird and many others have said is so true ... I may be feeling a tad emotional reading actually.
Tonight, enjoy that cuddle (we've had a week like that!) and do what I'm doing ... despite not being able to run all week, I'm currently sat at PC beaming from ear to ear, nay, shoulder to shoulder, with pride, that Nick is using the word 'athlete' on this thread ... that's us that is!
Many thanks for that Nick - I've had a serious rethink and have now changed my schedule!
I do think the rules are different for us slower runners. For the quicker bods, their marathon time may be similar - or even less than - the time of their long, slow run. For us slower chaps, there's a large discrepancy.
This also brings in all the different training paces that you see on some schedules - fast runners obviously have more of a range of paces they can choose from. My marathon pace will be my slowest pace as I'm not going to have anything in reserve when I finish! However slowly I start, I expect to slow down even more towards the end. I wouldn't want to start at my finishing pace as I think running so very slowly when you're fresh can actually tire you more than a comfortable pace. Do others feel this?
Eva - i know exactly what you mean. I find it much harder to get going and increase the pace after i start slowly. I also find that maintaining the slow pace can be really hard when your legs are trying to speed up. I am trying to stick to the rules and make the easy days easy so i have more strengh for the hard days, but sometimes the slow pace tires my legs more than the faster pace.
I'm really interested in you say Nick about the long runs not exceeding 3-3.15. The longest run I've ever done was 3.25 and was 19 miles. I'm quicker than that now though, so I reckon I might get a tad further next time I reach that level of training.
Would you say then that you should simply cut off at 3 hours then and call it a day, rather than obstinately plodding out the last mile or two? I find it more difficult to slow down to marathon pace on a very long run, than speed up, but that causes burnout.