Alistiar Brownlee wins again



  • I had heard the only became draft legal as it was becoming too hard to police otherwise.

    The womens race finish was incredible and couldn't happen with a TT format.

  • Mainly because (I believe) that bunch riding takes a lot of experience / skills, and would pretty much make triathlon an inaccessible sport similiar to road and criterium racing. Let's not forget the reason for drafting was to make it more viewer friendly to allow it to be included in the olympics.

    For me... I love watching elite level drafting races... I think people really underestimate the effort changes that are required by the guys when riding in the middle of the bunch... those are the guys that may struggle in the run because of it.

    At the end of the day when it is still a very young sport... if it was non-drafting, I think you would still get the same winners race after race, and there would be the loss of excitement that comes with seeing somebody try to go off the front and breakaway... it just doesnt happen enough unfortunately.  I don't think you could have an Olympic non-drafting race unless you only have about 10 people racing... and the thought of a time-trial olympic race sounds extremely uninteresting.

  • Iron Muffin wrote (see)

    I had heard the only became draft legal as it was becoming too hard to police otherwise.

    The problem when drafting wasn't allowed was that some races were being decided on penalty times being added to finish times, with appeals over who was drafting who, etc.  Serving penalties during the race (as JB did yesterday) don't allow for any appeal, and deciding whether someone is drafting, making a legal overtaking move or leaving just the right gap is difficult anyway.  The IOC made it clear that if triathlon was to be included in the Olympics then it would be in a format where the winner was the first across the line, so draft-legal it had to be, really.

    As for why drafting isn't legal for everyone, well at least in the UK there are different requirements for holding bunch cycling races as opposed to time trials.  I guess that triathlon cycling is classified as a time trial on the basis that everyone is supposed to ride on their own.  All the elite drafting races in the UK are on closed roads.  

  • With the size of the pack in shorter pro tri races it became impossible to adminster the drafting penalties. Here in Germany, junior races are also draft legal, presumably with a view to allowing a seamless move into the senior ranks when the time comes.

    "Amateur" triathletes aren't allowed to draft. Nor is it legal in Ironman races. Mind you, there doesn't seem to be any other woman fast enough to draft off Chrissie in an IM anyway!

  • It's all a bit technical on here for me, but just wanted to add my own well done for the Brownlees - they are both truly inspirational and certainly motivated me to get out there for a run last night!

    Now that Alistair has pretty much won everything in triathlon (according to the commentators yesterday) I wonder whether he'll move towards Iron Man now.......

  • Mr Brownlee did give big hints this morning in an interview that he might target the 10000m at the Commonwealth Games in he needs a new challenge!! Could be interesting!

  • Does Yorkshire have a separate team in the Commonwealth Games?

  • Rafiki wrote (see)

    Mr Brownlee did give big hints this morning in an interview that he might target the 10000m at the Commonwealth Games in he needs a new challenge!! Could be interesting!

    New challenge..

    I was wondering if I time would come when he'd look to have a go at an Ironman?  How many times does he want to win the ITU series etc before maybe looking at longer distance?

  • Bouncing Barlist wrote (see)

    I was wondering if I time would come when he'd look to have a go at an Ironman?  How many times does he want to win the ITU series etc before maybe looking at longer distance?

    Quite a few more I would think.  Nobody has yet managed two Olympic golds in triathlon, so why would he move to an non-Olympic event?  As Macca found this year, once you've moved to long distance it's hard coming back to shorter stuff at the elite level, the sport moves on while you're away.

    I also get the impression that amongst elite triathletes, rightly or wrongly, that long distance is something you move to when you can no longer (or never will) compete at the very highest level at the shorter distances.  I can't see AB or JB doing it until someone younger and faster comes along.

  • Im sure i remember an interview with him a while back where he said he was dead keen to move to IM racing but not until he's in his 30's

  • Cheerful Dave wrote (see)

    Does Yorkshire have a separate team in the Commonwealth Games?

    In the same interview, they did point out that if the Brownlee brothers were a country, they would be 28th in the medal table, which is higher than Canada, Kenya and many other Commonwealth maybe image

  • I did the tristar MK race and think their format was better it was 1k swim with 100k bike then 10k run. Maybe by making bike bigger you would get more off a breakaway from stronger bikers whic would mean the stronger runners would have to work harder to catch them on the run? 40k bike at that level is nothing to them? Just a thought image
  • Sorry loved the race though shame 15 sec penalty for Jonny could of made finish for silver more interesting.
  • Agree with a lumpy bike to spoil drafters but swim second could cause all sorts of cramp issues then?

  • The order is fine Swim bike run that's what a Triathlon is? Like I said I think a look at the distances. For the elite 40k bike is nothing and with out a massive hill or two their is no chance of a break away so I say increase miles on bike or make middle distance Tri the new Olympic Tri?
  • Hobbling Harrier wrote (see)

    The 10k isn't accurate- official triathlon guidelines allow a variation of up to 10% in the race distances so a "10k" could be anywhere from 9k to 11k.

    Claims from yesterday that he ran 2915 sesem unlikely as his best ever officially measured 10k in a top quality race is about 29:30. Similarly I think Will Clarke was timed at 27:45 for 10k at the London Triathlon- his best is about 30 minutes in a properly measured race. 27:45 would have him as fast as Farah!

     Brownlee is regardless a very good runner - especially for his age- in his year group he's probably number one- though there are a couple that could beat him if they get uninjured for long enough (Pepper (used to be here!) and Deighton spring to mind) but he's not in the same class yet as Vernon from the year above. 

     Smart too- got into Cambridge for Medicine but left in his first term to train harder whilst at Leeds.

    Steve Cram mentioned this but said that the Olympic one had an officially measured 10k.

  • Also Mo didn't swim and bike before his either?
  • Yes wasnt it Hugh Jones the VLM course measurer who'd certified the run as being 10k ?

    They do have hillier bike legs - but if you're racing round Hyde Park - you'll struggle to find a hill. Unless theres a multi story car park to race round. THAT would be interesting.

  • If thats the case - why havent they  ?  I think you're underestimating the talents of the Brownlees and co.

  • +1 cougie, I wonder if Mo thinking next time round doing Triathlon? Doubt it. Alistair is not just a great runner, Triathlon is not just about the run you need to be good at the swim and bike before you get to run. If it was just the run then Tim Don is a fantastic runner but doesn't win every race?
  • Anyway who cares image WELL DONE ALISTAIR!!!!
  • Firstly I love triathlon and love the Brownlees and Yorkshire and Jess Ennis depite the fact she has bigger guns than me - I think I edge it for looking good in a dress though.

    However I do feel that with drafting allowed it does always result in a 10km sprint at the end. The speed they came out of T2 was mental. However the number of competitors of equal-ish performance means they have to allow drafting on the bike or go for a TT style start.

    Yes that means it becomes a 10km foot race. So maybe that is modern triathlon. Heck look at modern rugby compared to that of the eighties. The players of the 80s would get ripped to bits.

    Not sure they want to lengthen the bike as the current event time is

  • Dreamtwister wrote (see)

    . Alot of sub 30min 10k runners could take the sport up and very quickly be in the worlds top 10. This shouldn't be the case.

    I think you are underestimating how good they are at swimming and cycling.  It would take a non swimmer about 10 years to get to the same level as them.  Look at Adam Bowden, former steeplechase athlete and sub 30 min 10k runner, he took up tri in the last few years and even with a county swim background is miles off of the pace.  Chris McCormack, world IM champ and former world Oly champ, got dropped by 2 mins over the 1500 metre swim when he went back to olympic racing.

    These top athletes are phenomenal talents and very stong at all 3 hence they are at the top. 

  • I think what Tuesday showed me was how far ahead of the field the Brownlees (and Gomez) were. On the bike they came past fast, the pack were pedestrian by comparison. On the run they were absolutely steaming.

  • Dreamtwister wrote (see)

    KK - Anybody that has cycled in a group will know how much energy you can save by drafting. No matter how strong a rider is, he won't leave 3/4 slightly weaker riders working together. 

    To add to what others have said, even if energy is being saved in a pack, if it's moving fast there'll be some working hard to stay in it while better riders are finding it easier.  Elite triathlon isn't simply about who is the best runner, it's about minimising the energy used swimming & cycling so that you can run 10k as close to your 'fresh' 10k pace as possible, but at the same time working sufficiently hard to be in the front group and keep it quick enough that your rivals are not going to be able to run as quickly as you.  There's a lot more to the bike leg than simply pootling around in a big group, although I would agree that it doesn't make for great viewing.

    There may well be some in the field who could beat the Brownlees in a straight 10k race, but they're not able to run to that potential in a triathlon because they're working harder on the other legs.  There's a young American guy at one of the world cup races who had the second fastest run on the day, but he hadn't been able to keep up with the lead group on the bike and ended up down the field, although he made up a lot of places on the run.

  • The Brownlees only know how to race one way and that is hard from the front in the swim, bike and on the run.  I almost every race they will be dominating on the bike leg and even with a 'domestique' they still worked hard sharing the load. 

    I read regular tweets from stong road cyclists who train with them and the Brownlees regularly rip the roadies legs off.  They are phenomenal at all three diciplines, that is why they are the best in the world, not because of just one. 

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