Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • About to head out for that 21. Always need to read the forums to get the adrenaline flowing and lose some weights if you know what I mean.

    Great running from Stevie, Matt and Dean. Big whoop to Matt for a first: special races always when you win.

    A friend others may recall, Nick Browne, just went sub 70 (69:32) at Rock ‘n’ Roll Arizona – Half Marathon.

    Johhas, Wokingham will be foot down within the constraints that it won't be fully tapered. The ghost of VLM 2012 and 2:50:28 is those 28 seconds which went in the last 2 miles (7:02 and 6:50). At 24 I was on for 2:49:28 and even at 25 I was on for 2:50 with a 6:30 last mile so this year it is A race is first and all others are side shows. It was good to go sub 80 at Wokingham in the build up that year and I don't regret it, but this year there is a plan.

    Nikki, my runs last week were

    18 @ 7:18
    5 @ 7:56
    14 @ 7:11
    5 @ 7:46
    12 @ 7:17

    My MP is 6:30 so I try and do the first half at MP+20% and back at MP+10% which is 7:47, 7:08 for an average 7:27. That is the theory but I tend to run more to perceived effort and they are a bit fast at the moment but  I am happy to take such.

    In 2012, I did 5x21 milers at paces form 7:16 to 7:45

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Great PBing from Stevie S, hopefully that sets 2014 up to be a much better year than 2013.  I'm sure that well sub-80 is within your grasp on the right day, you've certainly put the work in.  The picking up the pace after the mid-race wobble would certainly indicate that, particularly the last couple of miles.  I think if you went in targetting 1:21 it's always difficult to readjust your target to a faster time, because there's always going to be a part of you that is subconsciously happy to settle for less.  I reckon if you'd have gone in with 1:20 as the sole target you'd have done it.

    Good racing by a sub-par Dean, I'm sure you're faster than you think you are. At least the poorer form is coming in XC season when PBs aren't on the cards anyway.

    Mattl, good win.  I don't know why you're worrying about the time, you know you're in great form .  Bit of runner's paranoia creeping in there.  Anyway, a good win and I'm sure more to come this year.

    Been away to the in-laws in Germany for 4 days, so I made last week a cut-back week (61 miles).  Only got out once whilst away, but it seemed a shame not to make use of the hilly terrain they live in, so did a hilly 11 including some hill efforts at the end of the run (3 x 600m and 4 x 250m).  My wife did ask if I wanted to run on Saturday evening, but after having consumed 2 x Rehbraten, Spaetzle, Kroketten, many pieces of Kuchen, Sekt, Bier & Rotwein, I wasn't sure I'd be able to conjure any running up.  Intended to run a 20 last night after the flight back, but it was far too late to be arsed with that kind of nonsense, so managed a 15 at glacial pace instead.

    Cancellation of Metros XC means I might not show up for any more cross country now.  Last one is TVT the weekend before Wokingham.  Bad idea if Wokingham is a target race?

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Could be, or could act as a nice sharpener if you build it in right...

    Philip - interesting to read that this year you have a plan, as last year was so obviously a fluke with no planning or preparation image

    8M at lunch for me with 2 M wu and then a 5M tempo at target MP. came out OK, and the leg seemed to hold up alright, so once again keeping fingers corssed. Splits came out as:

    7:15, 7:15, 6:01, 5:48, 5:59, 6:01, 6:04, 7:40. I think the 5;48 was a GPS wobble, as it jumped from 5:58 very quickly! Alos, the last 6:01 wshould have been a 5;58 but some old biddy pulled out fo her drive in front of me! The very last of the temp was 6:02 at the 0.9M stage, so I tried to up the pace to get it to 6 and ended up retching violently so lost a few seconds image. Ahh, the old bus is back!

  • The Bus good session, when you say retching was that down to the effort or something else?

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Impressive session Bus - for me, I'd say a 5 miler at tempo was a pretty good indicator of potential HM pace, as long as you feel that you could probably have squeezed out another mile or so at that pace if necessary.  You say you retched violently, but then you're always retching so it's not necessarily a sign you couldn't have carried on.

  • Nice racing everybody! Pretty impressive and good to get some wins on the thread so early in 2014. Going to be a good oneimage

    Thanks for sharing your training Phil - really interesting to see. Maybe it is all about pacing eh..

    Nice hilly run Dachs. Must have been nice to get a change of scenery too.

    Good session bus. Top efforts there.

    1h swim for me at lunch with a good bit at tempo... also felt like  I was going to be sick!! Not sure what that was about?! It's only bloody swimming.

    Results out for the XC yesterday. Was 25th out of 105 women. Time of 25:19 for the 6km. Winning time was 22:18. Was 4th in my club. Need to put in some efforts to get top 3 from now on I reckonimage

  • 21 done at 7:15 average pace: miles 2 to 10 7:21 average and 11 to 20 7:04 average so definitely got a faster home leg.

    bus, daughter #1 throws after racing 200m and always does so, indoors or outdoors (so there is a bucket set in a quiet corner for her), and she is aiming to be regional champion in a few weeks time. It all comes from fight or flight reflex.

  • nice progressive run there PMJ. perhaps a nod to your Wokingham 'plan'?

    dachs - XC near a target race is always a no go for me ever since I was in fine form, taking a nice easy recovery run through some woods on a trail in the week of a race, and subsequently tripped on a tree branch and put myself out for a few weeks. never again.

  • ML84ML84 ✭✭✭

    Dachs, i wouldn't do the XC the week before the half. I'd imagine it may take a bit too much out of the legs. 

    Nice tempo Bus. A sign of normality I'd say if the wrenching is back. 

    Solid long run Phil. Is the +10% and +20% out of the Daniels book? 



  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Thanks all.

    Rob - it was an effort thing, but mainly because I tried to sprint the last 0.1M to get the average down to 6 - schoolboy error! Seems I'm in good company though image. Possibly could have carried on Dachs - the idea is to try that for real next week.

    Nikki - that reminds me of a niece of mine who was sick in a pool after a Bejams frozen pudding thing - the strawberry colouring sure went a long way image

    Excellent long run pace that Philip and a very impressive pick up in the second half. All looking rosey in the garden at the mo.

  • Cracking tempo Bus! I haven't retched for a while... I'm not training hard enough!

    Phil, bloody stonking long run there! I assume your hypothetical pace is quicker than your target pace? Which one do you train at? My target pace would be circs 6:40-45. But my hypothetical pace is 6:30!! That'd kill me off on a LSR.

  • Bus must take some effort to retch mentally you must be tough to push yourself to the limit like that ! Does it happen often?

    Phil great to see you back on marathon training trail as you always impress me with you meticulous approach if I ever am daft enough to do a marathon either shoot me or help me plan my training please image

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Philip is definitely the man for marathon advice - he seems to have the approach nailed!

    It used to happen a lot at the end of races Rob, usually when pushing for the line against a competitor. It's not a mental toughness thing, but just a physiological response to moving into oxygen debt that some are more susceptible to than others. It's a pain in the arse when it happens in the last k of a 10k, as the only thing you can do is slow up and let it subside! On the plus side, when it happens at the end of a session, you know you were pushing toward the limit and couldn't have worked much harder image

  • Re. retching: it happens to me at the end of a half marathon too - though if I'm lucky just after I cross the line and not before (as in the 2012 Robin Hood half, where I thought I was going to be sick on some spectating children). Never done a training run hard enough to produce the same effect though (although this may all change tomorrow morning).

  • matt3 wrote (see)

    Solid long run Phil. Is the +10% and +20% out of the Daniels book? 



    MP+20% and MP+10% are advised training paces from P&D.



    Stevie see wrote (see)


    Phil, bloody stonking long run there! I assume your hypothetical pace is quicker than your target pace? Which one do you train at? My target pace would be circs 6:40-45. But my hypothetical pace is 6:30!! That'd kill me off on a LSR.

    I am aiming at a gnats dick under 2:50 which is 6:29 pace so in P&D terms this is MP. P&D like long runs to be at MP+20% and then speed up to MP+10% which is 7:47 and 7:08 for me. To be honest, I find 7:48 too slow (I won't say I can't run at 7:48 as you can always run slower, but I won't) so I am a bit more like 7:30 and 7:08. They have some runs with big chunks at MP but I am doing those with a number on my vest so 16 with 12 @ MP is Wokingham and 18 with 14 @ MP is Finchley 20.

    I also do a reasonable number of miles faster than MP, so intervals, XX races, LT runs (so this week is 10 with 5 @ HMP).

    14" of snow forecast here for midday tomorrow: bring on the dreadmill.

  • image

    I hope you're somewhere else than Wycombe on your last line Phil!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    just thinking the same image

  • Have had a mixed training block this Dec/Jan. Hit the 5x1mile 10k at bottom end 10k pace (5.30), failed to hit even that pace in a 3x1.5mile 10k session though had the start of a cold, hit mid HM zone for both a 2x3mile HMP, and 2x2.5m HMP session, and obviously died a slow death on the 2.5m 10k, 3x0.5 5k on Friday, though obviously with the preparation of an utter fool, no sleep, underfuelled etc.

    So, perhaps valid excuses for the 2 underpar sessions, but not smashing zones like old times.

    Anyway, today was a 4m MP, 2m HMP. A harder version of the classic 6/7m MP session.

    Having done the last 7mile MP at 5.57 average, I had to remind myself that the actual zone is 6.00- 6.10, and not to be alarmed to see a 6.06 first mile.

    MP sections came out 6.06,6.04,6.05,6.02
    HMP sections 5.48, 5.37

    Just stormed the 5.37 to make sure it did come out 5.45 top end HMP, but obviously came out a little tastier.

    Am a bit rest assured now, am frozen to the core, but felt comfy about 10mins after the session

  • That sounds like a pretty good session, especially when wading through 14'' of snow, SG. image

    I nearly did a Bus this morning - I was doing that 10 miles with 5 @ LT session out of P&D and was very tempted to sprint the last few hundred metres to get the mile average back under 6:30 after a sharp turn after a cobblestoned bridge. Luckily a small child on a scooter got in my way, so I didn't end up retching in the street in front of a bus queue.

  • Nice sessions SG and Lit.

    Those bloody kidsimage I accidently went for a run at about 8.15 the other morning... prime kids off to school time apparently. They are all elbow height... so difficult!!

    8m for me today inc 8 x 160m hill sprints (~46s with jog down recs), then 2000m on the track @ 06:13mm, 400m jog, 1000m @ 06:08mm

    Went to bed at 20:27 last night still feeling completely f*cked from the xc/long run.. today was significantly better image

  • Stevie G wrote (see)


    I hope you're somewhere else than Wycombe on your last line Phil!

    The official line is that I am in New York (trying to be international man of mystery but remembers that my Garmin posts all my runs to facebook)

  • But also remember Phil that we're not stalking you out like you do us!!

    In the last mile, some guy pulled out of his drive without looking, but wearing headfones, and realising I am exceptionally mortal, I'm always very vigilant around the loop at key points. Certainly pays to run defensively. Therefore a little swerve and off again!

    Just can't imagine retching at the end of a run. Maybe i don't have that level of exertion in me.

    I swear you're still working too hard Nikki, but if you enjoy it and it's bringing your times down play on player!

    Good run Lit, I'm guessing even the long runs for the rest of the week feel comfy after the stonking Tuesay. Although I used to find that the long run the day after the hard Tuesday would be a bit "After the Lord Mayor's show". But less so these days now it's a morning job.

  • SG - yes, it's nice to get the hardest run of the week out of the way on a Tuesday. I'm not doing tomorrow's 14 till after work so it's almost like having half a rest day. Clearly I'm looking forward to 21 on Sunday already...

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Very reassuring session that SG! Exceptionally mortal? Nikki - another good session, especially after a tough weekend.

    Lit - also good work. Nice to see there were multiple versions of me standing waiting for you to puke at the end too image. What you really need is televised evidence like this:




  • Is that you with the giant neon yellow feet in the corner, Bus? My shoes are that colour too.

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Yep - maybe that's what is making us retch! That shot does make my feet look very big though - in reality I've got tiny feet!

  • we should deffo do that race again this year, was an epic experience.

    Maybe even go the Samir way and blag elite spotsimage

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Great session SG, heartening to nail one of those.  Yep, apparently being an elite is much easier than I thought, so worth a shot.  Maybe ask if they'll specifically introduce you to the crowd as well?

    Good stuff Nikki.  Are you always doing hard sessions though?  It's either that or, like me, you don't bother telling us about slow easy runs.

    Pulled out a 12.5 this morning on the way to work, which I was quite pleased with given I only intended an 8 when I left the house.  However, my choice of clothing has led to some ... er ... chafing issues, which have necessitated buying additional clothing at lunchtime which offers more ... um ... support.

  • Chafing issues... absolute nightmare! I imagine...!

    Some easy runs in there too Dachs, I promise! This week (tradition now):

    M: Swimming
    T: 8m Hills + Tempo work
    W: 6m easy
    T: Club Session
    F: 6m easy
    S: 8m easy
    S: 12m lsr

  • Good sessions,  very jealous! 

    Spent the morning at the local hospital having blood tests,  chest xrays and other  stuff done. Have a fit note from the Dr that says don't work. Very impressed with what the NHS can do when needed. 

    Mrs has her number for Reading HM and she is going from strength to strength, even talking about the 24hr race near Basingstoke.

    I haven't received my number for Wokingham yet,  however I'm not sure I'll need it. Shame,  as some of the 5mi tempos promised good HM times even though I wasn't hitting the required FIRST paces. Ho hum. 

    I challenge Bus. He can retch and I can cough. Winner produces the most 'output'. 

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