Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Another pb for you! Well done SG. So if all goes to plan are you looking at a comfortable sub 17 at Maidenhead? Seems to be the quickest one?

    Moraghan, with regards to long runs within marathon training, what pace should these be done at? Qualifying for a GFA at  London is 3:10 but i would like to be closer to sub 3. Last two 20 milers were both at 7:41/m, they werent planed to be this pace but were done by heart rate and keeping it in the easy zone. 152bpm and 148bmp. any advice would be very welcome image 

  • Thanks Mee Meep, I was going to say hello on Tuesday, but never got the chance due to a warm up,  warm down and numerous club people to deal with!

    Never sure which is the quickest, as Maidenhead has a lot of grass which sucks the pace away a little.

    Last year I over performed at Burnham, and did 17:23 and then did 17:37 at Maidenhead when I thought it might beat the Burnham time.This year I'm faster and only beat the Burnham time of last year by 2 secs! That shows if you get in a race with someone you can take more off!

    4 weeks of training until then, with only a multi terrain 5k on the 13th to get in the way.

    I'm getting more discisplined though, managed to rest both yesterday evening and all of today as per the schedule....I must admit I'm absolutely gagging for a run thoughimage

  • mee meep wrote (see)

    Moraghan, with regards to long runs within marathon training, what pace should these be done at? Qualifying for a GFA at  London is 3:10 but i would like to be closer to sub 3. Last two 20 milers were both at 7:41/m, they werent planed to be this pace but were done by heart rate and keeping it in the easy zone. 152bpm and 148bmp. any advice would be very welcome image 


    Early on in a marathon schedule I would concentrate on extending distance at easy pace - and easy pace is derived from a recent race performance and is nothing to do with what you'd like to run.

    Once you've done a couple of 20+ runs at easy paces and handled them okay I would start adding some variety in your long runs with some extended quality.  Just as an example, something like:

    -  23m easy

    -  18m inc. 3 * 3m @ MP with 1m easy in between

    -  20m w / 18m @ MP +30 seconds

    -  18m easy on cutback week.

    Take care of the distance and goal duration first then start including some quicker running as part of your long runs.

  • Stevie G www.miles4miles.co.uk wrote (see)

    I'm getting more discisplined though, managed to rest both yesterday evening and all of today as per the schedule....I must admit I'm absolutely gagging for a run thoughimage

    Sounds as though we're at the point where a slight increase in mileage may be in order.  You seem to be recovering well and handling everything pretty well.
  • What are you thinking, up to 70 a week at first, or 75?

    Sounds good either way, I'd say the only reaction I've had is this week feeling sluggish through lack of running!

  • I think we'll vary between the two, except for cutback weeks.  I think I'd prefer a bit more lingering fatigue on heavy weeks.  image.  70 / 75 / 70 / cutback, then 75 / 70 / 75 / cutback or something like that.
  • sounds good. Let me report back in one piece from tomorrow's 1/2 day magical mystery run and then I should hopefully be ready to roar into next week's schedule!

    for now i'm off on a 5miler with strides!

  • finally got the results from tue...winner did 16:54, 2nd 17:10, and 3rd 2 seconds ahead of me in 17:19.

    Impossible to take someone in the last 200m on this one as the incline is too steep at 5k paceimage

    However, if the winner can keep slowing from 5k to 5k and I can keep 1sec pbing could be close by race 5!

    5th was in 17:37

    Nice 5miler today...

    and tomorrow for the long club event back from Chertsey to Marlow!

  • Cheers for that Moraghan. I feel like they need spicing up a little, all long runs have been well inside the easy pace range so may give the 3 @mp ;x 3 a go tomorrow.

    I do have one more question Moraghan, according to mcmillan calculators my marathon pace at the moment is 7:02/m but my target is 6:52/m will the extra 10 seconds a mile quicker make much of a difference? In other words should i run at current or target?

  • For most of your preparation I'd train at current fitness - particularly as these marathon conversions are typically reasonably aggressive.  At some point before the race (and about 8 weeks is a good, although arbitrary, point) it's advisable to nail down your projected marathon pace for the day and concentrate on extending your workouts at that specific pace. 

    Ideally you'd have raced a half (or something around that distance) at that point in time which offers convincing evidence that you are in 6:52 shape.  If not, you'd better be pretty sure that the next 5 weeks of training show that you are in that sort of form.

    Note:  Nothing to stop you doing plenty of targeted running at HM pace throughout your training of course which would take care of any concern over faster, upper aerobic paces.  MP / HMP alternating workouts are a really good idea imo, for example.

  • Thanks Moraghan!

    It really is invaluable having someone that knows what they are talking about that can answer/advise.

    Good luck tomorrow SG, hope  it starts early so you can avoid some of the heat!  

  • geez..not the most rock n roll evening ever...first..I hear the epic run tomorrow has been cancelled...at 9pm...then I spend over an hour on the phone to different people trying to get a solution round it.

    In the end, myself and one club mate are doing 11miles out from Marlow to Boveney, meeting the walking group, and then running back the 11miles with another runner! Not quite the big gang of other years but it will do nicely!

    thank goodness for this as this almost blew the point of only one session today! This way still get 22miles in, meaning a nice 47 for the week,..which was the target total originally..by sheer fluke!

  • cripes...the 22miles became 26....due to the alleged 11mile out route actually becoming a 13.

    The first 13 was run at easy pace but the 13 back was a bit slower mixed up with drinks breaks, and near the end running with a couple of slower people. 4hours overall, although I didn't stop the watch on any walking, talking, drinks, or ahem..lolly breaks!

    Think it's completely rammed home that I'm not a full marathon man! Was absolutely shuffling by the end image

    Anyway...ready for next couple of week's schedule mr M.

    I have the week commencing 14th June off work for the world cup, so upto you if you want to combine any sessions into 1 run rather than the usual doubles. However, am fine to continue in doubles if it's better to keep the structure similar from week to week!

  • Sounds miserable to me!  Hope you're fully recovered as you have a 70 and 74 coming up.  Given it's an increase in mileage I'd prefer to keep the structure the same on your week off - just make sure you get plenty of rest.

    M:  4m easy; 6m easy

    T:  4m easy; p.m. 9m {3m wup || 5 * 100m strides || 4 * (2 * 300m) in 57 secs w / 100 jog; 400 jog between sets. || cd}.  Your first 1500m pace session.

    W:  4m easy; 6m easy

    T:  15m long run

    F:  OFF

    S:  4m easy;  p.m. 5m easy w / 4 * 100m strides

    S:  4m easy if race is afternoon;  p.m. 9m inc. Chiltern Chase 5k

    W/C 14/6

    M:  6m easy

    T:  4m easy;  p.m. 10m {2.5m wup || 3:00 > 3:00 alternating @ MP > tempo pace for 39:00 || cd. 

    W:  4m recovery

    T:  4m easy; 6m easy

    F:  4m easy; p.m. 9m {3m wup || 4 * 100m strides || 5 * (800m @ 5k pace, 400m @3k pace) w / 2:30 or less recovery || cd. 

    S:  4m easy;  p.m. 7m w / 10 * 100m fast (progressively quicker) w / slow jog back recovery.

    S:  16m easy

  • All looks good and I look forward to crackin on.

     Only question is regarding the 9mile allocated for the 5k race day.,..and also for the other 5ks I've done.

    I presume it's a 3mile warm down afterwards? As it's pretty much 3mile warm up (including strides) , 3mile race, and I had only done 1 mile warm down after the other 2 5ks. I suppose I'd read the 9 as a 7..but if it should be the 9 written I'll start doing that!

    No problem in keeping the structure the same week commencing 14th. With 3 world cup games most days louging around is guaranteed!

  • I really want all your quality sessions to contain decent mileage and as you are racing so often I'd prefer it if you could make it up to about 9m through the cool down.  There'll be no need for that post this phase, which is characterised by hard training, because then you should be reaping the benefits of this mileage.
  • right..70miles on the agenda this week, good start today with a 4 and a 6. slight tightness on the 6miler at the start but a good stretching after means I'm raring to go again for tomorrow
  • 4m easy at lunch

    main session 9m, including 4 sets of 2x300m in 57secs.

    Splits as follows. Not rounding anything up or down this time, just going with the seconds that showed when i hit the splits during the session. Therefore as long as something was in the 56s , be it a 56:01 or  a 56:59, it counts as a 56 if that makes sense!

    56, 56

    55,57

    57,56

    58, 56

    Felt like good consistent efforts. Especially pleased with the 56 on rep 6 as kids being in lanes 1 to 6 meant I had to do a last 30metre burn into lane 8! But generally the pace was definitely correct, certainly nowhere near easy, but as the 8 splits show not too hard to hit the targets.

    Knowing you have to do another 300m effort with just 100m recovery is good for mental strength, and i found the 400m recovery gave ample time to burn the next 2.

    A little bit of tightness around the achilles especially but nothing a good stretch off and 2 easy paced sessions tomorow won't fix

  • Well done.  If there is any soreness in the achilles tomorrow or tightness that can't be eased don't hesitate to drop one or both of the sessions.

    As you were going faster today it's quite possible you shifted your foot placement position which will often give a bit of lower calf soreness, including where the muscle meets the tendon.  That's nothing to worry about.

    A good achilles test is to "pinch" it gently a few times along its length - you'll soon know if it's actually sore.  If it is I'd take the day off if I were you.

  • Done a quick pinch test and it's no different to the normal feel to be honest

    About 5 years ago I had a small amount of what the doc described as achilles tendonitis, but in reality was probably just a lack of stretching and flexibility as non sport specific docs hear the phrase "achilles" and instantly diagnose "tendonitis".

    think it's just a few very gentle feelings showing the muscles are working a little harder than they've been used to, which I'm taking as a sign I'm getting stronger as the aches don't last long.

  • 4m and 6m done fine today...i was being over cautious with the achilles thing..you said be honest tho!

    In fact the only trickiness was on the 6miler almost being punched by an ex mate. I swerved it luckily and it set me off on a lovely run!

  • 15miles tonight, and trust me I needed that...cleared the head nicely from ex mates and ex girlfriends from the last 2 daysimage

    1hr 51 and actually felt better after the run than before it.

    Slight tightness here and there but nothing too major or localised, and a day off tomorrow so all good!

    Mentally if I can do a 15miler after a day of work anything is possible.

  • Oh, to be young and interesting!

    Well done on the 15 at that time of day. I tried it once last year and it was truly horrendous.

  • young ..I suppose still in the scheme of runners...

    But I'm never knowingly interesting.

    Hence being able to do a 15 on a thursday evening!

    Still..it beat doing a 14 on a Friday the other week! That was truly disturbingimage

  • Won the Chiltern Chase 5k today image

    or more accurately the Chiltern Chase 3.36miler! Had my suspicions when the garmin showed 0.92miles on the 1st k marker, and confirmed by the organisers after.

    Low quality field with the faster guys doing the main 10k race, but was miles clear of 2nd...which was a great feeling.

    Splits for what they're worth on a multiterrain course...in miles not k (!) The first  mile was completely road, the 2nd and 3rd had some ups and downs and mostly off road.

    5:25,6:18, 5:55  (And 2:06 for the 0.36m) 19:42. Basically would equate to about 18mins ish for 5k?

    Got a massive basket of jams (!) and a little momento...so all good. Even if I did have to take the ribbings off my club mates for doing the lesser race!

    Had a good shout at a marshall who was completely unaware and stupidly positioned when I steamed past and took the wrong route albiet briefly... if that had cost me I'd have been annoyed..

     All in good day out, got the 9miles in, although had to ditch the strides as the 10am suddenly came round and I'd only  got a 2.5mile warm up in. However, the extra on the actual race, and the 3mile cool down meant a definite 9miles overall

    As it was a morning race I'll do the 4miler later to top up this week's 70.

    So far so good...and my 3rd race win has given me a taste to get better, so I can compete in better quality racesimage

    I did make a goon of my self in the winners "interview", uttering contradictory nonsense and generally ranting thoughimage

  • Well done mate, that's excellent news!  We'll have to work on your post race interview skills.  image

    Don't do the 4m later in an effort to make up the mileage.  Only do it if you think it might aid recovery.  There's absolutely no point in chasing numbers - it was only there originally to prepare for you for the race.

  • Well done matey, pulled myself a little victory today too at the Wargrave 10km!!! Not expecting that as I hard a long run at a fairly decent pace yesterday and was just looking for some hard training.

     You ever run the Wargrave race? Fairly undulating but a great little race to consider for next year.

    Hope you enjoy your afternoon off (I hope you take Moraghan advice) and feel ready for you next weeks training.

    Once again, well done matey image oh whens your next race?

  • whoops, did the 4miler, but it felt good, strangely powerful! All the very slight niggles seem to have vanished, so looking forward to a week off work, to get stuck into this week's training and world cup games!

     Excellent work Harry. That's a proper race win lol. You'll have done pretty well looking at last years results as some well known local runners were in the top 10. How'd you do 34mins or so? Haven't done the 10k at Wargrave, but have done a 5k there which apparently takes in a bit of the 10k, so I can take your point on the undulating but quick thing, sometimes some light ups and downs can power you in a way flat only can't.

    Got 3 club series 5ks until the middle of July, with the Wycombe half (or 10k if I bottle it) also mid July. Then I'm looking forward to a couple of months of just hard training.

    After that, on agreement with the Boss man Mr M will probably seek out a fast 10k and perhaps take up your offer of pacing image

  • I think you might have a mild form of OCD, but fair play for getting out there and doing the run.

    I ran 34m18 on what I would describe as a fairly tough course. The undulation definately help you concentrate, power up, fly down and so on. However, after 8km I was starting to fear the climbs but I seemed to hang on in the end!!!

    Well enjoy another evening of football. Following england's dismal display I think I've got better hope with Uruguay (my office sweepstake team).

    As ever, I look forward to your future updates. Find us a good course and I'll romp round with you, by september time (or whenever you get to it) you'll probably give me a battering over the distance.
  • image If you're doing 34:18 on a tough course I'm not sure about that! However, I should be low 36 on a fast course. I always remember the seemingly illogical view of a local top 10k runner who told me once you get under 36 you can really start lopping time off!! I'd love to see that happen!

    OCD lol...you best not see that I eat the exact same food every day then image

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