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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Garmin delivered a replacement 310xt to me today. My 4yr old one filled with water on holiday whilst swimming. They replaced it FOC. That's good service.
Pete, I can identify with the 'giving up marathons'. On the other hand, there's plenty out there who can't get enough of them.
I'm a bit middle ground myself. Under 5k is a bit too fast and over 10 miles a bit too far.
As for mere mortals, this morning I was fully aware of being just that.
My occasional training partner is back in town so today was called up to do the '40 x ?distance with whatever rest made up one minute duration'. As you can see, the distance wasn't really a factor, and on grass too.
Once I'd finished and uploaded the data, it seems that whereas my fast running was in the 5:15/5:20 average bracket, my partner left me trailing by yards and worse the whole session.
In mitigation the lady involved got herself ranked as a V40 in the 3000m, 1500m and 2000sc 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the UK in the space of a couple of hours last Sunday. That follows a similar effort three weeks ago. Her times for the 3000 & 1500 were both faster than my all time pb's.
Fun watching while being involved, sort of.
Like with Dean on the forum, there's an element of reflected glory.
Forgot to mention.
SG. A sensible move I'd say. Keep things ticking over and the moment to go faster will show itself.
🙂
OK, well I went to Watford last night for a blast at an 800. Partly to held work on speed and sharpness for the next few races, but mainly cos my aim at the start of the year was a PB in every distance from 800 to half marathon. That ship has probably sailed for 10K and maybe 10 miles, but I still wanted as many as I could.
Put down 2:10 as an aim, which I really ought to be capable of, PB is 2:13.2, which is crap. Was fully prepared to swallow my pride and get beaten by a load of kids.
Ended up with a PB of 2:11.75, which is slower than Dean's mile pace, but I was quite happy with it despite it being easily my worst PB (it will always be that unless I take Simon's lead and try the javelin). However, I was a little annoyed at myself that I was maybe overly cautious. Tried to stay out of trouble towards the back for the first lap, and I ended up in a bit of a trance, suddenly realising at about 550m that I wasn't having the usual flood of lactic and actually had tons left in the tank. This put me in the unusual situation of beating a couple of people in a sprint finish, which was a bit of a novelty, but probably means I'd run way too conservatively. And within about 20 seconds I was fully recovered and wandered off and did 5 x 200 on the playing field.
So I think probably I should have run faster.
Happy child with A levels: daughter #3 got A* in maths and A* in further maths and a B in psychology and is off to Loughborough to study maths with a view to teaching maths. She will get teased at home as she got 100, 98,98, 97 and 97 in her 5 maths papers this summer: can't let standard fall
Wet at lunchtime so a bad case of shoaming
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shoaming
I am pacing at the Maidenhead Half so a nice 1:40 bimble to get ready for. Will be a useful measure as I come out of summer base and start to get a few longer runs in.
Well done daughter #3 Philip - not bad at maths then
Dachs - nice PB to add to the CV for the year! Have you thought about the South Bucks 10k on 4th October? It's a fast course. Normally it would be ideal in the run up to the Cabbage Patch 10, so you'd have the chance of completing the set, but it's cancelled this year for some rugby tournament.....
SG - wise progression back to fitness there.
As for the 20 to marathon debate, still no hard evidence! Anecdotally it all fits. My own experience fits the pattern described and superficially helps demonstrate cause and effect. In 2011 I had my 20M PB of 2:04;56, probably one of my top 3 races. 8 weeks later I line dup at VLM confident I could break 2:50, after all I only needed to add a 45 min 10k! Wasn't to be - 2:55. Could that be down to running the 20 too hard? Possibly, but also down to VLM being run under hot conditions in blazing sunshine, and with an unscheduled need to use the portaloos at 10 miles! The point is, yes there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that running a fast 20 before a marathon can diminish the marathon performance, but without a statistically significant sample size and use of specific regressional analysis techniques, it is very difficult to isolate other contributory factors and say categorically that running a hard 20 caused the marathon to be off pace. I accept that common sense and reasoning might tell us this, but not that cause and effect has been demonstrated.
Swimming 2.4miles and cycling 112 before hampers marathon performance.
Good to see you back SG.
Oh yes, well done on the results for daughter #3 from me too Phil. My nephew is coming up for his final year in maths. He missed the entire first term last year due to illness and had to find out what was needed himself and studied over Christmas.
First set of exams he came out top. Saves a few lectures I guess.
As for running/racing 20 miles before a marathon. My own experience of running a long run, as regards recovery, is that its fine so long as you don't go into the 'wall' zone; which will happen if you blast the thing.
If I hit the wall even for a mile or just 10 minutes, my recovery was whacked exponentially. One day turned into a week. But that's me.
🙂
Dachs, although im no track racer, I know for sure from tonnes of track sessions that a second a lap can be a fair difference at times, so over 800m flat out, a 2sec pb sounds a good enough result. You really are talking minor gains at that distance, so well done!
Bus - i think you used more big words in that last post than you have in 3-4years on here! I suppose there's plenty of time to think on marathon runs and training!
Matt - i've done upto 8miles MP as a solo training run, so 14/15 sounds huge!
I suppose there's 2 key things to bear in mind though. The pace I used was very much "theoretical", I certainly don't think I'd ever be doing a marathon at that pace, whereas i guess yours would be more target race pace.
And yours would be within a "race" structure, so I expect would feel pretty comfy.
20miles is an odd distance though isn't it. I wonder what the 20mile versus 26.2miles differential of pace per mile actually is...
The trouble with hitting 20 miles in a marathon already stuffed is that the guy who then decides to increase pace that day isn't going to be you.
The finish times of marathons don't tell you much. However, if you go on to the London Marathon results sheet, you can see the splits every 5k. From those you can relieve the relative horror show so many runners put themselves through.
When you see a couple of times only one second apart at the finish but 10 minutes apart at halfway, you can imagine the scene. Sub 6's to post 8's in one morning.
🙂
20 miles done at MP is going to take the fat end of a couple of hours and you should be fine the day after. 26 miles at MP gets to be a lot tougher simply because it pulls more out of the store cupboard. Those last 6 miles are more about fuel rather than anything else.
Pace isn't much different: for my 2:50 the pace was 6:30 and the equivalent pace for a raced 20 is about 6:22 so doign it at MP is about 8 seconds a mile easier.
Dean's final today I believe. A PB has got to potentially be on the cards, but can he sneak some silverware?
Ooh, go on Dean!
Furthest I've run @ MP during a 20 mile race was 15 miles. In all honesty, it was a little harder than MP effort towards the end because I had a bit of a cold and was belligerently soldiering on to try and run sub-2 hours (finish time: 2:00:01. Ha!) But in good health I'd happily run that far and no further @ MP, if in preparation for a target marathon, and probably no nearer than 4 weeks out.
Regardless of how long it is till the marathon, racing a 20 miler all-out must surely have too much of an adverse effect on your training for the next couple of weeks. I guess people vary in their recovery but I'm happy to blast a HM in the build-up, as I will be three weeks out from Berlin, since I appear to be back to normal by the following Thursday, so it's only a single quality session that's sacrificed, and 13.1 miles @ HM pace is a bloody good tempo run to compensate for that.
16:20 1,500M M40 FINAL
so that is 15:20 our time
Squeaky bum time.
Looking forward to a quality report from Dean!
Got ya!
🙂
Off to Annecy at 4am tomorrow
Next check in depends on the wi-fi!
Whilst looking at the results I couldn't help but notice that SC would be in contention for a medal in the M95 Javelin, winning throw 13.99m.
Saw a picture on twitter with you in lane 2 just behind Mr Whiteman with your eyes firmly on the movers and shakers in lane 1.
Almost no feet on the ground, truly a flying last lap
Epic!
A sociable joggette to/from/around Bracknell parkrun so 15.X km in total.
As expected one of my achilles is niggling. My 2 week experiment on the effect of a distilled juniper berry & quinine mix on calf length has produced unsurprising results.I'm unsure if it was the minimum of running on holiday or the angle of the mountains that were run up that did it.
Luckily no more running until Tuesday. Already rollered the affected calf and will continue to do so.
14m in the javelin? That just brings back bad memories of being forced to do athletics at school
Looks like someone may have left himself rather a lot to do on that last lap! They are certainly shifting in that photo. Come off cloud 8.5 and let us read the report Dean!