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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Bus, I'm going til Friday morning as I didn't start til Monday morning. First time I've ever tried it and to be honest I don't really feel any different. My legs don't feel neither fresh or really tired despite a very very low carb intake. I've not dropped any weight or had a decent crap since Monday.
Sick of cheese, eggs, veg and meat though.
Does the lakes trip coincide with a race? With the Abbeydash only 4 weeks after the marathon I'm thinking of doing the Full Tour of Pendle again instead. Also thinking of just racing on the fells and XC over the winter.
Thanks SG
. Good luck with the teeth - best piece of luck I ever had was breaking a tooth that then required major treatment including a bridge and various other stuff whilst on the dole 
12 x 1k? WTF
Madness!
Matt - it must be serious if you're getting sick of meat and eggs! Hope it all works it's way out before Sunday!!! I suspect that low carbs aren't being noticed 'cos your activity levels are so low compared to what you've become used to. Typically for the way this year has panned out, there are no races whilst I'm in the Lakes
. Those fell ROs need to take the southern school hols into account more in their plans 
. Fingers crossed you'll bounce back strongly after Dublin and get some more quality fell races onto your CV...
Just eat it Matt.
Really. There's not a lot to be gained from doing this anymore for the simple reason you can now scoff gels and other carbo boosts during the race.
Ron Hill and his peers had to operate in an era where not only was food banned during marathons, but also water for the first ten miles. Taking water from any other source apart from the one water station could also get them disqualified.
The officials liked them to suffer in those days.
12 x 1k @10k pace! I'd start the session but I'd stop at the point where it starts going flat.
Bus, Good luck on the hills.
🙂
Perhaps I'm a bit of an anomaly, but I'm pretty sure I could manage 12 x 1K @ 10K pace when fit. It wouldn't be enjoyable, and I'm not noting it down as one to try, but doable.
Doesn't sound much fun Matt. I've never tried this carb depletion malarkey, not sure I ever want to either.
By dentistry standards, that actually sounds pretty cheap SG. We're all in the wrong line of work.
Session last night was an odd one, 2 x 1000 @ 5K and then 15 x 200 as relays in teams of 3, so about 60 seconds standing recovery. First 1000 was pretty much bang on with 3:08, then a shocking 3:17 indicating how rusty I am. Didn't bother timing the 200s, but I doubt they were even mile pace, probably more like 3K. Oh well, don't need to be in good form at the moment.
Just as well Dachs - fancy only managing a 3:17 and 3:08 1k
. Just the thought of 12 x 1k at 10k pace makes me feel unwell 
Go on Matt - what harm can a REALLY big bowl of coco-pops do???
Cheers Ric, I'm intending to enjoy 'em - it is a holiday after all! Where's SG with the Judith Chalmers line then?
good sessions dachs and simon.
the 12*1k or 10*1k sessions are breakthrough or confirmation sessions. i wouldnt like to do them but if my coach gave it me i know what he has in his mind.
next world masters champs in australia has a familiar poster boy!
I'm considering trying the 12 X 1km at date 10km pace in the next two weeks - Will report on what happens
Matt - that's how I feel every bloody day lol! No bread, no cereal, no pasta - Gluten free
But I'd go with everyone else! Just eat it! You've done some depleting / loading or whatever and it really won't bother what you've done
Dachs - enough to blow away some cobwebs and hardly super disastrous!
Random note but I watched THE video of Steve Jones running THAT 2:08:12 - FML.
Did you sign a model release for that Dean? Nice.
As part of my coaching course this weekend we have to keep a food diary for the week. It makes interesting reading.
Unfortunately we only received this information yesterday so I appear to be carb heavy especially at breakfast. The other mornings have been poached or scrambled eggs with cheese, ham or some other meat.
To observe is to change.
I imagine all sorts of sessions are possible to execute. What matters is the cross over where the session changes from being able to build you up, to the state where it wipes you out to a point of no enhanced recovery.
The clever bit is recognising that point.
I'd call sessions like that 12 x 1k as 'proving sessions'. It proved you had the ability to do it, and that any races run at that point would have reflected that ability. But conversely, the fact that you did the session now means ironically you now can't.
So you don't do them. Just develop the ability to do them.
🙂
ric - good point, but what about racing 2 10k in 6 weeks. its possible to run well in both of them. so would it be any different doing that session on week 1 and racing in week 4?
F*ck all that chat - according to Strava, I ran a 2:09 mile this morning.
But yeah - think I probably agree with Ric. I'm fairly sure I'd manage to do the 12x1k session but I'm also fairly sure I could run round the track 25 times @ 10k pace by myself if I really wanted to.
I would much prefer to save that sort of effort for an actual race.
I did 2x 5x1000m recently (90s recoveries, 3 mins between sets) which I think would be about the biggest 10k specific session that is actually useful without too much of a negative effect. I've done a few 8x 1000m sessions plus a couple 8x1000m + 5x200m sessions too - the latter were probably harder at the time than the 2x 5x1000m session simply because running "fast" at the end of those sessions is much harder than knocking out a couple of reps at the same pace.
Dean - Surprised they didn't airbrush you out, you were slightly blocking Sir Tony Whiteman after all
Big session talking. Pyramids are another monster sessions - the 'table mountain ' ones are horrid too when you double up on the longest.
Bloody work curtailing my running today. I'm off next week, so its the usual shitstorm before you go and shitstorm when you get back. No time for some sneaky reps..the bastards
Dean, I'd say running 2 10k's in 6 weeks would provide the opportunity to improve.
I could run a 10k once every 3 weeks and improve. But I couldn't do it off one a fortnight due to the need for recovery and a training period. Even then I would have to add a longer race break of sometimes 12 weeks just to fit in the training cycles.
As for a race a week such as a 10k. That's plateau material. No one can improve when doing that. It's nigh on impossible with even half the distance. Just one look at the finish times of those who run a parkrun every week will tell you that.
As for the session. The way I see things, it isn't necessary to run as many as 12 x 1km.
I'd put the total accumulated distance of speedwork myself at a maximum of 5 miles. Much more than that turns into such an endurance feat that the only thing which gets trained is pain and fatigue.
🙂
to be honest i wouldnt be suprised if her 12*1k sessions was actually meant to be a HM pace rather than 10k pace. i think one of them got it wrong.
a lot of elite / high performance plans have sessions the race distance at race pace so 10*1k is a standard. stopping at 5m seems random, so why not 4 or 4.5m. training should (occasionally) go into fatigue, as long as recovery/rest is correct of course.
The fastest people at my club also train the hardest. there must be a correlation between the 2.
Bit Schrödinger's cat that!
agree with the general vibe, clearly if you can do a time in a race, you are physically capable if needs be, of doing that in a session, especially when broken by reps.
However, you don't get many very experienced runners who have a ferocious training appetite doing such a hard session, let alone (with all due respect!) a newbie doing 4.25 for a km!
On a lighter note, my new team, have this bizarre "weigh in Thursday", and they track it all on spreadsheets! Not sure what would happen if some fatty/past anorexic/almost any woman joins, possibly wouldn't go down too well making their weight all so publicised!
First rule of this sort of weekly comparison is to make sure it's as close to the same set up each week. So shoes/jumper/tie off, not eating just before, and for me, generally Thursday is a rest day.
Unfortunately, due to a Sunday drive, I had to make today the medium long run day, and it's interesting how big an effect it has,
Weight has gone
So an 8pound swing, which completely ruins my bid to win the "most consistent" performer, as next Thur, with no run, and more hydrated, I expect it'll be back to the usual!
what's less interesting is today's 10mile run stats. 6.52 average. Felt surprisingly comfy, so just need that top end comfort back. Although I'm pretty much sure I've been saying this for weeks and weeks now, and no doubt will for weeks into the future.
8lb's SG!
That's not weight loss, that's giving birth
.
All I can say about some of the sessions is I like to leave a bit in the tank. Shame the tank changes it's quantity on any given day.
🙂
10st 8lbs, you skinny runt!
I expect it was back up to the low 11s about an hour after in fairness! I definitely don't have much of a scope to improve pace by weight loss! Although I did know a guy my height, 6ft 1 who was low 10 stone! But that is very light for the height!
I'm doing some 10k paced reps tomorrow. But they'll be 800s and probably only 5 to be honest. I'm no hero!
It's going to be an "Interesting" day tomorrow...
track
mad 3 hours rushing to get some work done
dentist
then hopefully half day, relaxing!! Roll on 1pm tomorrow!!
I weighed less this morning, post-prandial post ablution than I did last night when I went to bed. Just squeezed under 69kg.
I was much faster at 65kg but far less healthy overall.
I still feel a bit of a fat bastard after Berlin. Still think I weighed more after the marathon than when I got there - the amount of food I put away, especially on the Friday night!! I'm usually around 11.5 stones, OK for 6'2''.
Off to Poole to see the folks tonight and off next week, nice run down to Waterloo from St Pancras after work - about 3 miles. Poole park run tomorrow, not sure who is running with my 5 year old...we're aiming to crack the 40 minute barrier, been 44 and 41 on his last 2.
I might have a blast myself, need to keep my very lucky winning streak there going
I've lost a fair by of weight since new diet change. Around 67 ish kilos, from an average of 72 ish through this year, I did however weigh this much when I PBd over 10km last year so not worried, I'm eating better too - I'm 6 foot
Simon, I get the growing feeling you sort of do the ferocious training/top times on the casual, admist a lifestyle of pure indulgence
Scott, you beanpole! For some reason I fought you were way down the height scale. Maybe it's just the tiny photo!
Morning session went very nicely. Quickly realised that 5x800 at 10k off 90secs is too easy, as the splits all came out 5k pace. (ie inside my official zone, which is a decent chunk quicker than my actual achieved average pace for a 5k!)
2.40
2.38
2.37
2.39
2.35
just quicker than 2.38 average (5.18 pace)
On looking back, I mistakenly took 20seconds less recovery than needed before the 2.39, so if anything that'd have been faster
But generally just under 2.5miles at 5k pace sounds bang on.
800s are quite nice, not the ferocious effort of the shorter stuff, but not far enough to have you holding on for dear life.
Lovely, going nicely.
Root canal done. Not so much pain as just really awkward, for anyone who has had it. Dentist has to thrash your tooth around so hard you're lying there wondering if it's going to rip out! Back in 2 weeks for the hopefully quicker easier end part!
Have to do a 13miler tomorrow, in lieu of Sunday. Don't suppose any of the local gang are around? Flexi on timings up to a point, anywhere between 7am start, and 12finish...
Might even have a go on the new Marlow half course if I can be bothered to sweep over there/am able to work out the route!
Obviously a day for visiting the medics. I am off to India in a month's time so £255 for 4 pricks in the arm (Dachs surely can't not reply to that) to try to avoid the major illnesses. I had the optional rabies jab: I know I don't have the same choice in meat-scented after-shave that bus does but still seem to get the odd scratch or bite from our wolf-like friends so thought it advisable.
lit got a mention in the marathon talk facebook Friday section. Can't decide if it was a sly dig at Johhas or not.
Off to see the university dwelling kids at the weekend so had to get Sunday's run done today so just shy of 13 round the sights of London. Brompton Cemetery and Battersea Park were both looking very nice in autumn colours.
Still no running for me since last Thursday.
Despite the my initial impression of improvement, the problem is that the improvement quickly got to about 90% then stopped.
Strange how the injury developed. It seemed to be something minor which got worse. So I'll put that down as an overuse job.
Ok to cycle, since it's impact which seems to set things off. At least thats going ok.
I go out with the lad on mountain bikes with road tyres and do 30 miles plus at a stretch.
Yesterday we rode out from Pinner to Great Missenden via Chesham. I led until about halfway at which point I tucked in behind the lad and got towed back a darn sight faster. Averaged 16 mph for over 35 miles. 1170ft of climbs.
🙂
not too bad then Ric if you have long cycling sessions to fall back on. the beauty of being multi sport! You'll get it right with the niggle. Race day magic is always the most amazing thing with running, but that path from thinking something will never go, to one day forgetting it was ever a problem is probably the second ranked thing.
13 clocked today. Always feels a little odd long running on sat, but allows a slightly later wake up. Sod's law that the one week of the year you get an extra hour sleep is a rare Sunday I need to take as a rest day!
anyway, 6.48 pace today, maybe extra freshness of not doing it at 7am, and 63.5mile week.
ticking over nicely now, and in 2-3 weeks, I hope for 2 things... final sign off that all is well on the ecto follow up test, and this temporary filling replaced by a proper one that doesn't feel like I have some bit of plastic crammed in my mouth!
So I had a run today, the wife took the kid around (he was a bit under the weather and did 45) went out hard ish and after some of the enthusiastic kids had been burnt off it was me and a Serpies guy left, who I recognised. Got a bit of a gap towards the 2k mark and kept it all the way round.
Felt really hard, so pleased it came out at 16.01, as felt harder and slower than that. Perhaps need to start on the core stuff again and get the missus to give me a massage!
Good news about the ecto SG.
Race day magic!
The best one's were for me when not only did I know I was going to get a pb. But also a question of by how much. Maybe the age grade % will suffice for now.
I read in a Seb Coe book about how the injury goes away, from it being a factor to until one day it's hard to remember what the problem ever was.
Cycling.
Ten years ago on the road bike I had at the time, I could do a 50 miler to the Chilterns and back averaging 21mph plus. That was using aero bars, a camel-bac and two dozen dextrose tablets.
It's sort of embarrassing now if riding behind the lad and he spots someone on a road bike. He's going to go for it and try to overtake them.
It happened on that last ride when after getting past the rider
I noted the speed was often in the 24/26 mph zone. I pretty well hung on for ten miles before getting dropped.
However, out of respect to competitors, He needs to get a proper road bike, join a club, train all winter and then puts some scores on the board.
🙂