Moraghan Training - Stevie G

PhilipMJones

Stevie G said:

Always wonder with pacers how they do it.

Take the Last Friday of the Month usual course for instance. It's a fast course, but still has a very definite quicker and slower couple of kms.

In that circumstance I suppose you just have to be re-assured that the faster stuff is coming when the splits are under par!

Think I misread my watch earlier, as the "Recovery advisor" now sits on 3.5 DAYS"

so when I saw a 3 or 4 earlier, it was measuring days not hours

Makes a bit more sense, as if I was truly working at 189 average for a mere 7.05 averaged 10miler, then I would need a few days off!

Will start the week gently....

There is no general rule so it is best to ask the pacer what he thinks he will do. As an example, at Ealing Half (1:45 pacer, 8:00 m/m) there are a few undulations and we were told to ease the pace uphill and recover the time downhill so I was close to 7:30 pace on some of the downhills and my splits were as fast as 7:45 and as slow as 8:10. At Black Park, we are told to keep even pace all the way around. From the 4k mark there is an incline before you turn and it is downhill fast all the way to the end and that means I tend to drop runners on the up and they pass me on the down. 

Talking of Ealing Half, I think a few of you saw the video form the start. 5415 was ahead by a country mile: finished 59th in 1:23:37.

Mind you, he wasn;t the only twat in the front line: 5294 finished 192 in 1:30,  1209 was 727th in 1:42 and 1968 2,672 in 2:11

The Bus

I blame "Run Fatboy, Run"

7.5M early doors. No dog attacks, no bullock stampedes and bacon in Greggs. Natural harmony has been restored.

Reg Wand

What would be more fun, would be to look at that picture and predict the front row's times.

Sports Direct guy on the left is my favourite.

Did the club champs 5/10k (naked/watchless) run last night. Planned to do 39 minutes to try and replicate PMP but got caught up just following the guy that won the 5k. Managed to beat him for a bit of fun and then slowed it down for the second 5k. I actually finished nearly exactly 39 minutes. Just did the first 5k around 6:00 and the second 5k at 6:30.

Stevie G

Sounds a sensible step after an Ironman Reg.

Imagine the poor guys feeling satisfied at doing a half marathon, and there's Phil calling them twats on the internet 

PhilipMJones

Stevie G said:

Imagine the poor guys feeling satisfied at doing a half marathon, and there's Phil calling them twats on the internet 

I hope they do read this. The fast start guy had a plan and did it for fun and if forgivable for that, the 1:30 guy is maybe just a fool but if you don't call tweedle dee and tweedle dum on the left twats what else can you call them?

Simon Coombes 2

Idiots - But I suppose it's not a massive race and that way you can get past the idiots within a couple of hundred metres. So did this 'Squeeky bone relay' on Sunday in Olney, Bucks near MK. Yes - the baton was squeaky. Fun event, but 160 teams so quite busy, excellent amount of cheap cake on offer too!

The leg was basically xc- 3.5 miles, quite muddy in places and mainly around the sides of fields, some bits that annoying cloying clay type soil. So went off following these two tall kids after I had got rid of the usual suspects going off too fast. Quickly realised that 1. 8 x 1k yesterday wasn't great prep 2. I'm getting very knackered. BUT as you do, try to forget about it and soldier on. Came up to the 2nd place kid, but he got away up a little rise. Came in on 19.45, very tired. First in did 19.15, 2nd place 19.37. The first place kid had got a silver in the youth commonwealths 1500m in 3.49, quite handy.

Good event, we were first mixed team by 6 mins, I was 4th quickest, a 2nd leg runner in the team in front of me did 19.07. Decent morning out.

PeteM

PMJ perhaps you could advocate a rule requiring a vest and racing flats to be allowed to start within 5 metres of the line . That would sort the wheat from the chaff! Having said that, the start line, as with your other example at Tring pr, doesn't look too crowded and there is something nice about zooming by a few over-ambitious starters early on. As long as the traffic isn't too bad so I personally wouldn't be too bothered by it.

Impressive relaying Simon and casual pr 'win' Matt. Good to hear the pacers get something out of it and good bit of advice from PMJ about asking them their plan in advance. At Fulham Palace it is all totally flat and tarmac so the 18 min guy just does 3'36k's, but appreciate it would be different if gradients and terrain varied. 

Forgot to mention Saturday was number 300 pr for me; at least I have one record amongst this forum's contributors; even if it has nothing to do with speed! 

Dachs

Reg, that sure is an epic report.  I am impressed that you had the energy to churn it out so soon after the event.  My heart was in my mouth as I read all of the pre-race shenanigans.  Will he get to race?  Will he be able to perform?  Seat of pants stuff.

As for the race itself, amazing how you can churn out a marathon like that after the swim and cycle legs with non-ideal training.  And very much under your main target too.  Great stuff.

Decent parkruns Pete and Matt.  I've paced both 18 and 17 at parkruns, and can confirm that I go into it with no pacing plan whatsoever other than to be as even as possible.  I suppose it's not difficult to run it spot on when it's well within your abilities anyway, as you just speed up when needed, but what you can't tell from results is whether doing so burned off a load of people who might have been sub 18 had you paced it properly.  Never mind, they just need to get faster, then they won't be on the margins.

As for PMJ's rant, I have little sympathy for the start-line twats, unless they have some kind of learning difficulties they must know exactly what they're doing. Quick nudge in passing is the answer.  The further ahead of where they should be starting, the more nudges they get.

Essentially a week off last week.  I did do 2 x 5m easy runs, because history shows I don't seem to run at all well for some time after a week with no running.

RicF

Pete, it shows how long you've been posting around here as I remember you saying you were going to stop pr's after the 200 mark.

My second ever race was the Gosport HM. The starter pointed out the 'time pens' and suggested rather forcibly that if that was your predicted finish time, then go stand there.
He added that if anyone choose to stand on the front line, and then sets off jogging, don't be surprised if you get pushed and shoved aside by faster runners. And that'll be all you own fault.

A couple of women did that at the Harrow 10k; a race won usually sub 30. They were given advice, which they ignored;  they had as much right etc etc.

When that race started it became clear to me from behind them, that they were being taught some lessons the hard way. A mixture of screams (from them) as they were elbowed and pushed aside, and a series of insults headed by 'Oh f off you fat bitch'.

I couldn't bring myself to join in this relative slaughter, and let a rival of mine (who did) get away. 
Never did catch him.

The Bus

Easy now, or SG will be rolling out his Wokingham half hi-viz bloke moan ;-)

Good work in the relay Simon!

300 parkruns Pete - blimey!!!

Hoping to get home before it's dark tonight, but it will be touch and go so could do with a bit less cloud cover!

PeteM

Think I said stop doing them most weeks/every week rather than stop altogether Ric but fair point that I have pretty much carried on doing them whenever fit enough to. Probably doesn't make sense running wise but they are free, get you travelling around a bit and varying your courses and act as a fair measure of form. Plus they do get a bit addictive   Anyway only on target for about 40 this year rather than the 50 or so of some recent years! 

Pacing 17 Dachs, wow; there can't be many takers for your services at that level

PhilipMJones

Went back and read Reg's Ironman report. Great race plus all the fun of the fair getting to the start line. How do you politely explain to someone that drafting is not allowed? 

Ealing was a fairly big race: about 4,000 finishers with starts in waves. If you were aiming over 2 hours you weren't even supposed to be out of the park where SG did the Friday mile.

Scott Edgington

I can never ever catch up! Been too busy with work and real life stuff. Was only at a local XC race Sunday when I had a call to say her waters have broken! She's just 32 weeks! Been back in hospital now


REG - Outstanding. I laughed at the video of Ealing HM and thought it was Samir. NO.3 on the start line if anyone else wants a laugh is local lad for us Richard Waldron..Noone has a busier schedule that him and he races probably 3x every weekend and although fast and consistent I don't know if I was running as much as him I might want a little more out of it over the last few years he's ran. However I haven't got anywhere near his times so can't knock him. His Eastleigh time being short though, re checked results and don't see anyone in the top 150 who didn't PB.... :P.. He also moans he gets injured for a week and has to rest for a few days before doing a double or triple again. Miracle! 

It looks like people are getting stuck in with XC or winter training now really. SC you have a solid group to work with. 

SG - Gosport HM this year? I'd never trust a watch that gives recovery time too. Mine does the same and there are too many variables. Also is yours wrist based HR?? 

ML84

Scott just PO10 him. I love his May schedule. 
Raced a 10k sat 20 may, a 10k Sunday morning.
following weekend he ran a half in Liverpool Sunday morning then nipped to Manchester to run the 10k maybe late morning then headed to London to run the 10k bank hol Monday. 
Pretty respectable times! 

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=5313

Scott Edgington

Yeah mental isn't it, he does parkrun every week I think sometimes ducking out so there more on there. I don't think there's a month where he hasn't ran a race every week since 2013 . I think two spells of 2 months missing but I know he's gone away for marathons abroad which may not be on there . Guy runs mega miles and also in the gym alot doing XT too. Caught him outside on an inhaler once though and said I didn't realise you had asthma, no I don't was his reply, but it helps haha! 

Still no sign of baby, 50/50 whether he comes on naturally or she gets induced at 34/35 weeks. 

No run for me this morning despite being up for ages already, managed 3 weeks of 8 / 10 / 8 miles per week now

Reg Wand

PhilipMJones said:

Went back and read Reg's Ironman report. Great race plus all the fun of the fair getting to the start line. How do you politely explain to someone that drafting is not allowed? 

Basically I invited him to come past which clearly wan't an option for him so he dropped back instead. All it takes is a look and a flick of the elbow, no swearing needed.

Good luck with the baby Scott. I assume the waters didn't break as they would have had to have delivered?

300 parkruns! That reminds me of a woman from work who invited me to her birthday party, her house was literally rammed with all things frog related and there was no booze, I left as quickly as I could. Not sure why that reminds me of that though.

I've never been that bothered about slow runners on the front, I generally find that everyone starts too fast anyway so I prefer to be a couple of rows back to keep my own start in check.

PhilipMJones

ML84 said:

following weekend he ran a half in Liverpool Sunday morning then nipped to Manchester to run the 10k maybe late morning 

http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=5313

I reckon that may be a number swap. The 10k was a 09:00 start and the half 08:30.

The Bus

That would have to be some half then!!!

Hilly off-road (for a change!) at lunch today - 7.7M, making just under 21 for the week so far - I won't be keeping that average up after Thursday!

Fingers crossed everything is OK Scott

PhilipMJones

Scott Edgington said:

Still no sign of baby, 50/50 whether he comes on naturally or she gets induced at 34/35 weeks. 

My wife went in early when her waters broke early with #3. Doctors kept her in hospital (she was quite early so had to be in a hospital with a SCBU) and said they would fill back up again and the baby would be fine and they would wait but then they noticed the baby was in stress (they think it was an infection) so induced much sooner than 34 weeks. Came out like a small monkey: now 20 years old and starting the final year at uni so got over that somehow.

The Bus

I think the monkey thing is just genetics Philip ;-)

Any of you more local boys fancy an LSR on Saturday?

alehouse

This year the Great Manchester Half (28/05/17) started at 9:00 and the first wave of the 10k at 13:07 so perfectly possible to run a half in Liverpool in the morning and then get to Manchester for a 10k in the afternoon, particularly if running a later wave: the last wave went off at 3. 

In other news, gradually getting over the Achilles injury, I hope: ran my longest continuous run yesterday since June 24th. One whole kilometre, although actually ran for 20 minutes in total (3.2k) with walk breaks every few minutes. A long way to go and three months of no running has seen an unwanted 6kg or so accumulated.

Stevie G

You've got to be a machine, or a little bit mental to race a half marathon and a 10k on the same day.
I'm thinking of that sheer tightness/seized up feeling you get after a half.
There will always be hard core types though, who never get punished for it.

6&4 today, same as yesterday. Whether just taking 4-5 days off would have de-colded me quicker i don't know, but this is sustainable for now. Interupting the nice little run of training though

Scott, hope there's promising news soon! Gives you another element to battle to keep your training up!
Would like to do Gosport again one day, but probably too soon this year. Need to feel right again, and get a session or 2 in again!
There is a XC event this week, stupidly early for our league, but can't see being right for it.

Stevie G

ps good to hear you're getting back into it Aley...
Bus - probbo using sat as a rest day, but will let you know if not

Scott Edgington

Yeah I have been reading conflicting reports but the doctors set everything out for us so now I undersdtand what can happen really...Basically waters have broken and she is having small contractions with cervix only open due to waters breaking. 

She's has had scans to make sure there's enough fluid around the baby which there is 

Generally after waters breaking you'd go into labour within 48 hours but as PMJ said it's not always the case so lots of antibiotics just in case of infection and they want to prolong giving birth if they can. Come Friday if he hasn't come then we will probably find a date being mentioned for inducement. He is around 4lbs right now so doctors are really happy even at this stage (32 weeks)

I think when the baby comes it will help as early starts will mean I can get out and I'm only doing 15 minutes at a time right now as that's all I can handle. For now I've been lazy or so committed with work I just come in early once I'm up. Working a bit later tonight as Inesa is happy for me to be at home or here with no change just in case I have to have some time off sooner than planned

Awesome news ALEHOUSE

Simon Coombes 2

Sounds ok then Scotty - hope everything goes well for you both! Great news on the injury Alehouse too.

Half and a 10k on the same day is a bit stupid or a bit of attention seeking tbh. Fair enough if you double booked and you didn't realise.

10 x 800 last night over at the rugby club, so one loop of the pitches and only halfway up the slope (100m) and back. Grass was a bit long too so these are basically xc training sessions. Came out at 2.41,2.39,2.37,2.38,2.37 (annoying poo stop ) then 2.37,2.38,2.38,2.36,2.31. Commute was bloody knackering this morning....

PhilipMJones

The Bus said:

I think the monkey thing is just genetics Philip ;-)

Any of you more local boys fancy an LSR on Saturday?

My brother is half orangutan but I think that genetic trait is just on his bloodline.

I'd be up for an LSR if I weren't on holiday in Sussex. 

Scott, our #3 was well under 4lbs (when will we all use kg for babies?) and she was just fine. She was in SCBU for about a week but that was quite a nice experience as the SCBU was much more friendly than the general wards and they allowed (indeed encouraged) partners to bring in meals which is good as my wife's answer to the threatening question "Do you like hospital food?" is a definite "No!".

The Bus

kg for babies when we have km for road signs and our runs - so never :-). Presumably he is just a half brother then?

Good news Aley - fingers crossed the progress will continue.

Bitten by a dog again this morning!!!! Seemed a friendly little thing then just turned on me at the last moment and one of its teeth punctured my knee. I guess it just couldn't resist my sausage smell or something. At least the owner had the good grace to apologise profusely and promise to keep it on a lead from now on, so difficult to get too cross.

Talking of knees, the pain in my right knee seems to be getting worse, despite not having ridden a bike for a week. Hoping it will pass, but at least it balances the pain in my left leg for now....

Stevie G

Sounds an arse of a combo there Bus, bad luck. Dogs and pains!

I give dogs a wide berth on the roads, but of course offroad it's not always as easy. 

Bit of coughing today, which i hope is the last step of this tedious cold. Be glad to spice the training regime up from the maintenance 6&4s!
Of course, 3-4 doing nothing may have seen it completely off, but am hoping i can get away with no days missed!

Dachs

SG, the Thames Valley XCs have been brought forward this year because there were just a stupid amount of fixtures, and you'd end up with five consecutive weekends in January/February.  Proper XC (by which I of course mean the Saturday leagues ) start in October.

Really hope all goes well for you Scott.  You need some luck from somewhere, so let's hope it's where it matters most!

Good news Alehouse.

Dogs AGAIN Bus?  This is getting ridiculous.  And more pain?  You're just trying to wind Ric up now.

Stevie G

Bus means discomfort i think...as you don't keep running through pain. It's one of those red lights.

ps you can keep your "proper" XC Finishing 97th over 10k or more on some grassy muddy park sounds like an absolute nightmare. The Sunday league is more "MT" as we've said before, and a lot more interesting (opinion)

Ruins the tradition of the league though, Remembrance day/Datchet always beig the first event etc. Oh well..must be getting old talking tradition!