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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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just half a session tomorrow, then it’s BAL 5000m at Portsmouth on Saturday, Southern Vets Monday at Perivale then Eastern vets at Bedford on Wednesday. No horrible training sessions
I suppose i've swept back in from my "Only race flat out" days of the main years of this thread, back to the social - do more stuff as part as the club scene.
Need to get the right level in between both i think- or be willing to see a few more average ones.
It's probably no coincidence that my best race of the year was the Wokingham half, a race I put a proper build up into.
Over June, I aim to do the Marlow 5k next Tue, and the Golden mile/5k double on Sun 17th. Outside of that it's up for grabs. Couple more 5ks sensible? Or is even that too much? Determined to do a proper set of 5ks this summer, but there's the risk of trying to do too many. Need to do some of the faster races rather than just these summer series ones.
Simon, that's a really solid performance indeed, and good to see you going well over the long stuff again.
SG, bit of a down day probably. Are you still doing the MP sessions or some kind of tempo run?
Reg, great performance in the 5K, and I don't see why you can't target at least a low 16 with more running mile
OK, so I suppose I’d better put up some kind of report.
I don’t know if anyone else experiences this, but once or twice I have had dreams where I am late to the start of a race and find myself too far back, and then when I can start running it’s like running through treacle. Essentially, Monday’s race was as close as I have come to that experience in real life.
Normally, I like 2-3 miles warm up for a 10K, but misjudging the time it would take to drop my bag and get into the start pen meant I had barely any. Once in the start pen, I found myself too far back. Since Simon came past me in the race, I assume I was further forward than him at the start, so it won’t wash as an excuse, but I found myself annoyed from the start, and 2km of weaving and dodging people on pavements exhausted me. I was still overtaking portly people a mile into the race. Dean mentions that I fell off sub-32 pace early – I was never on it.
From 3K, I just felt like I had nothing left. On the plus side, I was still passing people, but that was inevitable really given the start. I was angry and demotivated, and whilst I didn’t consciously slow down, I wasn’t going to run my best in that state.
Simon came past and I had no legs to go with him. Saw 17:00 on the clock at halfway and almost stepped off the course then, but at the end of the day I would have to walk 3 miles back regardless, so thought I might as well run it.
For the second half of the race I had a cap on backwards. I don’t know why.
Finished in 33:34. Yes, I guess it’s an OK time, and I’ve run plenty of mid 33s and felt OK about it, but given where I thought I was and what I was aiming for, that must rank as one of my worst ever performances. Congested and warm, but that didn’t stop lots of other people having great days. And now I’ve got DOMS, which I find baffling given that I ran the race at slower than half marathon pace.
I had forgotten what an absolute faff these big races are where you’ve got to dedicate about 25 minutes to bag drops and standing in pens 15 minutes before the gun. Frankly, I won’t be doing that race again unless I can get under 32 and into the ‘elite’ start, but 31:xx feels a million miles away right now. Feeling pretty disillusioned with it all at the moment. The marathon was good, but I've now had 10 months of sub-par races other than that, and it's getting worse rather than better.
Since my foot cleared up, my 5k time shave gone 22:11, 21:33, 21:42 (hilly course) and then 20:57 last night so trending downwards.
Next Tuesday is the next 5k at Marlow and I may have a sensible schedule around that one (I am away this weekend so front-loading this week and then Friday off, Saturday 3 miles out, parkrun, 3 miles back) Sunday off, Monday gentle so it should be the first real race.
Interesting Strava segment in yesterday's 5k, https://www.strava.com/segments/12247170?filter=overall. Dom Reed (fast starting HX) only at =11th
I must admit i flagged about 4 or 5 before the race last night, as they were full of 2min miling cycling twats.
The leaderboard is strange, if i'd realised i was 1 second off, i'd have probably laundered my breeks to smash it, though that would have probably rucked the race even more.
Then 1 second back from me is you. If my start was too sharp yesterday, what on earth was yours to do a mid 18 in 2004
Dom's not fully over injury, so his fast start yesterday was even sillier than normal. It was last year I first clocked him, he absolutely monstered off, and I presumed he was one of the faces on the scene, having not been around myself for years before that.
Will join you in trying to stay fresher for next week's race. I've had my short sharp wake up now.
I haven't done any tempos for ages to be honest. Possibly since pre Wokingham. I was going to do a few to build to Maidenhead, but that got canned, and it's been short stuff since.
Do we think they make as big a diffo for short stuff? I could feel I was a bit lacking for Marlow 5.
Not quite sure what route to take right now...
- Get back on my 12 sesh plan - though it's been quite disrupted so has lost the flow and the last 3 sessions are insane pace and very tough
- Dig out some old Moz sessions
- Throw some MP/HM/Tempo paced erm, tempos in alongside a weekly track sesh
Open to ideas. There's probably not too much wrong, just needs a bit of sharpening, turning up wanting it a bit more and re-thinking what the actual plan is beyond just picking races willy nillySimon - cracking result, so very well done, especially on a hot and humid day.
Philip - solid post gout progression!
Reg - Endure 24 sounds horrible
Dachs - sounds like a pretty shit day out all round, but a combination of factors rather than any specific issue to be concerned about I'd suggest. The unusual DOMS suggest the humidity may have got to you more than you think and were probably a bit dehydrated.
My legs were a bit stiff today, so it was hard work doing any sort of speedwork, so decided on a relatively easy progression, covering 6.6M in 6:43 pace avg. Not great, and the faster miles felt hard, but at least the hip and back seem to be behaving themselves currently so not going to grumble!
Simon; usual brilliant performance. Age group best in a race of that magnitude. Respect
Bus; 6'43 is very decent, especially in this humidity. I just tried a 'semi tempo' 10k with the pace being whatever 'comfortably hard' came out as and that was only a 7'12 av for me.
PMJ: Good rate of improvement; sub 20 5k again soon no doubt
Reg; you could probably get yourself into the Yateley 10k's which is a pretty fast course and evening races should be cooler.
SG: I wouldn't worry about any slight drop-off. Still very decent times for a quick succession of races. Your relays time was 2nd best of all and 3'25k pace for a 100% off roader. BTW just seen the full results and I was 15'20 for 18th of 204 but that is about 25 seconds a k behind you. Impressively detailed results service from the Runface guys apart from your team members have no names alongside them! Why is that
I see some talk in that direction so there may be a Datchet contingent.
PeteM - Thanks for that - must have been one in the tank somewhere after the average ones I suppose. Bus - likewise, glad to hear that your issues are behaving at the moment! It wasn't that hot I'd say, but pretty humid. It wasn't sunny all the time, there were some cloudy bits.
Dachs - I wouldn't get too het up about it. Interested to hear you say 'Congested and warm, but that didn’t stop lots of other people having great days' As that definitely wasn't what I found from folk I know - more lots of tales of woe! I had a decent one - Greenwood did 31.16 and got a PB, that about it as far as I can remember.
The start is vital in this race now - it wasn't as much in previous years, but Trafalgar square is really congested now.
It's hard to go off times, when you're not on the same leg though. Clearly the A leg of a relay is always the closest to a race. But that's not to say it'd guarantee a faster time, as you might ruin yourself early doors. Especially if trying to match Chris B's mad start for instance.
Stevie I was about 13secs slower on Sunday, despite being in the A leg chasing people, versus my solo thrash, yet 3 secs ahead on Tue.
So all thrown in a melting pot of freshness, age, recovery, motivation and how you deal with other factors!
Factors like humidity! Again a real sweatfest today, even at 7.45ish. Didn't help with gone 11 to sleep, which for me is late.
Pete, ta, I think you're correct on a lot of that. 3.25 average offroad would certainly be something i'd accept for a 5k wherever right now.
Sub 17 is the target once I attempt one of the faster 5ks. Summer series, i'd like to get back down to a 1720 somewhere, that's more realistic on these.
Hopefully the simple change of not having a race before the next 5k will help. Marlow 5 and the Relay before Wargrave and Burnham.
That race looks arch pot hunt material, but is the same day as the Gosport mile/5k, which is a nice opportunity to get a double in, on the coast, and rack the races up. Will probably be pushed to get a 4.56 this year, but will do some 200s in the run up to the event flat out, to get into the zone.
4x200 at1500 pace, 4miles TMP, 4x200 at 1500pace.
Absolutely humid sweatfest, so didn't even bother taking a vest to the track.
First 200s, 2x35, 2x34
16 laps nicely sub 1.30 (plus 8 secs extra for full 4miles)
Second set 200s, all 4 at 34.
That felt a decent booster.
Much more so than what the next 5k sesh of 6x300 would have been. I'd have no doubt rampaged them in 50-52 but in reality come away no better off.
Dachs - on our endurance teams facebook page i posted this and i 100% agree with it.
trying to unpick results and the like is wasted effort. be miserable for the hour then use it as motivation to propel forward. Sometimes you are just shit. no reason. just shit. Shake it off because you are not shit and move on. If you are in a run of being shit sometimes you need a 2nd opinion. i was shit in oct/Nov. everything was shit, i was setting my own sessions as the rest of the team did XC stuff and i got the balance all wrong. Coach looked at it and identified my quality/easy ratio was out of balance. i was never fully recovering. i didnt see it because some of the 6m @ 6min pace i was counting as not quality. but it all started to add up.
Try a different taper or recovery plan. Put more rest days in. Just because it worked getting you here doesnt mean it is right. have another look. maybe change the sessions...are they a bit similar? eg same sort of pace just differing distance/recovery? But i would only look at this level of detail if you are in a run of being shit....if its not long sequence, you have had your hour of being miserable...move on to the next session
i have just posted a 15.38 5k off less than 40mpw. Hardly text book as some of you hit those weekly miles before Thursday is out. Make sure my quality sessions im in the best shape, if im not feeling an easy run then i cut it short. Racing and quality sessions, make sure im recovered for those.
/sermon over
Good session SG
last night for 10*300 off 75secs rec. race on saturday so was a "relaxed" 48/49 secs.
Good sermon - totally agree. I knew I'd have the 5000m tomorrow after the 10k Monday, so to do nothing Tues and Weds (apart from quite a bit of walking) and the short work commutes today and yesterday fitted perfectly.
Good excuse not to train!
Reading parkrun for me and the 1st in a month I've run at my pace rather than with my daughter. They changed the course due to some scouts regatta which made it a 3 lapper round the woods which just didn't work well. Far too many runners on narrow paths with lots of mud and water near the edges; real problems lapping the slower runners. Scrambled a 19'37 out of it in the end for 8th. Time is pretty nondescript but I'm telling myself it's a fair bit better than it looks. We'll see when I run a course with no excuses.
Hope it went well Simon.
Pete - sounds a pain, so reasonable time considering.
Nice tempo Reg!
The guy who finished in front of me today - Datchet dasher, Andy Irvin - has been aiming for sub 19 and used my first mile to help. He did it today - but somehow the results have cocked up and he's listed as being just 1 sec in front of me! Bummer! By the same token, the young lad behind me, who I had to sprint to stay ahead, is listed as being 14 secs behind! Bit weird....
So the 5000 yesterday, BAL Div1 in Pompey. Skint, so had to set alarm for 5am to get the minibus leaving Tooting at 7.45am. Got there before 10am, race at 4pm, already warm ish and I'm yawning loads. Getting a feeling this may not go brilliantly. Obviously try and watch what I can, but the day is dragging. Lie down under a bush in the shade and fall asleep for 30 mins, trying to get the yawns out, works happily. Pretty warm and finally it's gets to 3pm and get to warm up, see Matt from Kingston & Poly, lovely guy but he's 43 and getting faster by the month..or even week, annoyingly! so I'll try and stay close, last race he pipped me over 3000 last year and was sub 9 at the last BAL over 3000.
So warm up done, go for the flats I ran the BUPA race in. So there's a minutes silence for Bruce Tullough and we're off. Don't feel great, but who does when it's warm and breezy? You feel like a piece of washing drying on the line, dry mouth straight away etc. Weirdly first 800 feels crap, but we're through the first K in about 3.05. I usually time each lap, but in a race like this I just went for each K instead. Quite bunched still, can see Matt ahead of me (where he'll stay). And we go through 2k in about 6.15, so still 15.40 ish, same for 3k, about 9.25.
Now the fun begins, start feeling like I'm hanging on as the field gets stretched and I'm feeling tired, this is track racing at its worst, going with 4 laps to go, just willing the laps by..check the watch at 200 to go and it's 15.20, so make sure I'm under 16 with a 15.56. Stagger over the line, most saying they felt shite. Speak to Matt, he's done an amazing 15.29, kudos in that weather. Well managed a 3 mile warm down at least. Suppose sub 16 is Ok.
800 and 3000 tomorrow night, all good fun eh..
SC still knocking out consistently good race performances and training week in week out!
Dachs, easy for me to say but I wouldn't worry about the 10k. Look at Hawkins. Recovering from the marathon could well be a reason and coup,ed with the chaotic start.
SG, what about adding some hill sessions and some decent tempos? A lot of the races you've been doing aren't what you'd normally class as an A race so its all good training.
Managed a fell/off road pairs relay a couple of weeks ago which was my first race for 4 months. I ran the same leg as I did last year and I'd targeted it by doing lots of hill work last time but nothi g this time so wasn't looking forward to it. Went pretty well as we were about 30 seconds quicker this year and the fastest pairing by about 4 mins. For some reason the results have a pairing running 4 mins quicker than us despite his strava having them run 20 mins slower. RO was notified but still not amended the results.
Did too much the following days including a 30 min tempo up and down a 1000ft climb and a track session so it was no surprise my calf seized up at a parkrun on the Saturday. Last 8 days have been shuffling along at 7/8 min miling.
Talking of different length parkruns, the one I did at Blackpool is short. I sat in 3rd for the first half mile then went to the front and pushed on. First mile was 5.23 and that's when I felt my calf. Got to half way (2 lapper) and stopped at a bench to stretch my calf. Set off again but then stopped about 30mtres further on to stretch it again. I was then still just in first place and opened up a little gap but stopped further on to prevent doing further damage.
Second place ran just over 17 mins but was 5.40pace after the first lap. Record is 16.06 and that's at 5.17 miling. That doesn't add up.
Anyway - in the meantime, back to the track last night, 800 and 3000 in Southern Vets at Perivale.
Horrible tube ride there, so warmed up annoyed. Got spikes on, felt relatively OK. So there's quite a few of us on the curve as we set off, I manage to push myself to the front. Someone quite close, but I feel ok-ish as I go through the bell in 63. Round the bend and the back straight hear footsteps and a Serpie guy blasts past me with 250 to go. Try to hang on, but he's away and finishes in 2.05 to my 2.08. Not brilliant - feel happier that he tells me he's a v35 at least.
Warm up again 30 mins later for the 3000. Recognise the East African guy from Hillingdon, think he's the guy who finished prematurely at the bell last year! Set off in leisurely 78's with my team mate Raj at the front with me and Hassan (I think that's his name) and a Serpie in 4th. Stays like this for about 4 laps and does quicken a little and then I pass Raj and hit the front. Hassan still with me, but feeling confident I can have him as we go past the bell on 8.10. So another effort and I can hear the footsteps fading a little and I come round to take the win in 9.20 something (I presume the last lap was sub 80!). That felt better and it was a proper race too.
Like 2 years ago, stupidly decided to run to Harrow & Wealdstone - basically slightly uphill up Greenford Road, turn left then up towards Harrow, it just goes on and on. 5 miles took an hour with a food stop. Then an annoying 2 mile run to my house the other end. Decent days work all in all.
Next stop - 800m Eastern Vets at Bedford on Weds.
you need to race more often Simon! nice work though
forgot to mention i had a league 3000 on saturday. plan was to sit and kick as it was very hot but unfortunately got confused and took the lead after about 50m and stayed there. through 1k in bang on 3mins. then a bit of a drift to 3.06. the next couple of laps were hard in the heat but a decent kick off the bell saw me home in 9.10 the chap who beat me in the 5000 by 20 secs a few weeks ago kept trying to have a nibble at overtaking but i just sped up to hold him off each time.
time is ok considering but i must have the worst 1500 to 3000m conversion in the history of track
Casual :-)
Nice 3000s chaps....bet my 1500 to 3000 conversion is better than yours Dean (in that they are equally crap!)
That's a bit unfair Mr L - saw the exchange with the RO on Fb!
Philip's fat-shaming was at least done far from home to reduce the risk of him being sat on! I agree with Pete by the way!
Progression/tempo thing along the canal at lunchtime. It's pretty flat, but surface varies from tarmac to compact gravel via hard packed mud and a bit of flooding! Happy enough to ratchet up to a 6:06 mile and have the whole thing come out at 6:35 for a bit shy of 7 miles, which included a 7:20 mile warm up.