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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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More seriously I think most cycling and tri events are measured in k's so those that cycle a lot are a bit more used to k's than pure runners. Talking of cycling; any of the South East based forumites that cycle (Bus, Ric, Reg, Joe etc.) fancy the Swallowfield Duathlon on 16 September near Reading. I did it last year and its a well organised little event with a high running focus, 7.5k run, about 20k bike then about 4.5k run (and no I'm not converting that to miles!). Will probably have another bash at it myself all being well. Standard not all that high so someone like Reg would probably have a good chance of winning it.
I did a five mile race in Battersea Park and lets face it, it's not exactly sharp corners. So problems with tri-angulation creating short distances ought not be a problem.
So the miles according to the Garmin were clicking over at 5:40's, and a great time was in the bag.
Then the '5' mile split made it's presence felt. Wtf! where's the finish line? and there it was, a speck in the distance. A decent time gone.
Total distance recorded, 5.15 miles. 10k's coming out at 6.36 miles.
Instead of adding 0.03% to allow for a possible short course, they've made it 3%.
Fortunately, this kind of nonsense doesn't happen on the track. Though there's a suggestion that the track at Riety is short.
When Steve Cram ran a 1:42 800m there, he found it hard to believe. Thinking he was only in 1:45 shape at the time.
We could with more tracks like that one.
🙂
Repetitive too ML...
Talking if which -I did more training last night!! only 6 x 600 to try and avoid last lap treacle again at MK tomorrow like what happened at Liverpool. Started on 1.47 then another 1.47, three 1.45's and a 1.39 to finish - 200m jog between the reps. So nice to be able to train in the cooler weather.
did the 200m jog get slower as the reps got quicker?
Datchet relays last night for another quck fire race racked up this summer. Weather actually threatened to rain (and did colossally after!)
No Dave Lee, and occasional thread poster Mr Winning this year, so it was up for grabs.
The boy Wool and partner would be decent (although not so decent in the end as didn't show up - flight related?) and there was a sprinkling of other known and unknown runners about.
I noticed a Maidenhead chap who'd beaten me in the recent 5k series, Mr Eastern, local track hot shot Dereece was there, a 50sec 400m, sub 2 800 guy. Then a few fast looking chaps from other clubs we didn't know.
Chris my relay partner actually said 2mins before the start "there's no way we're winning this" "Positive thinking" I remember saying. He was particularly hung up on a couple from Tadley runners who looked the part.
Off we go then, and I'm expecting Dereece to fly off, at least on leg 1. He's running with Emily from our club, so i'm expecting us to beat them on aggregate, but maybe lose a bit on the legs v him. ,McHarg (our 54 year old recent 2.07 800 guy) is there, plus a couple of unknowns from other clubs.
I lead us off, get a couple of hundred metres and check my shoulder - it's a crowd scene, including Deerece, McHarg, plus some fast looking random club people. Put a bit of a surge on and open up a little gap, around a fussy section round some trees through some rough.
Get round this part, and a guy in a green shirt is right on my shoulder, threatening an overtake. Put an extra gear on, and monster off through the best part of the km loop, a flat straight, then a ever so slight down loop to the finish.
Pass over 1st in what must be a 3.05 first km (hard to take a proper split and handover at exact right time - should probably have left the watch on some sort of auto/moving time thing rather than take the off splits that I did)
Anyway, Chris zooms off, and he's pretty tidy over short stuff, and some of the B runners are the slower of their respective pairs. A couple of teams hand over to their lady, and it becomes about what sort of lead Chris can bring us back in, with just one unknown who may be able to reign him back.
Lovely long recovery in this race relay, well over 3mins, so once you're going again, It doesn't feel as hard as the pace it shows says it should be.
By my leg 2 we're starting to get into overtaking, which spices things up, albeit makes things a little harder to see gaps between front teams.
However, we gradually increase the lead every leg, and haven't overdone it early doors, and pending the final results, I reckon a 2min margin - so a nice night's work. Mid 32s for our combined 10k,
Last year I believe Lee/Winning did around that, compared to me and Chris sub 34, so we'd have haven given them a real race this year (although you can't always compare conditions - perhaps the "burnt" grass was a faster surface for instance...hard to judge. Although Chris hadn't got back from the other side of the world a few hours earlier this year either!)
Some more booze as a prize, and a good night's work
4.5m this morn to round it to 45 for the week, and shortly ofF for a Man Utd v Leicester, Doncaster v Wycombe 2 day combo.
Will judge what I run on Sunday after this little trip. Probably start off thinking 10 and judge accordingly.
SG, good outing at the relays, if you have an excess of beer I am happy to buy it off you.
Why i was ever on such a thread who knows.
Decent win tonight. Shocking trip up.
Left wycombe 1.45 got into the game 2min before kick off at 7.58.
In fairness there were two service station breaks late on and a hotel check in..the three things i could have canned and banked 20mins..
But there were also two mad half mile runs!
Midweek games have got pretty fraught these last two years. Throw a friday in and even worse
My running pb's are in both metric and imperial depending on the distance.
The imperial track races are gone. Even the formerly much heralded 1mile has largely been consigned to the history books.
As things stand we have metric for the track, and for the rest we have road 5k, 5 mile, 10k, 10 mile, HM and Marathon.
XC is what ever it is, and quite often, isn't.
All man made distances for which standards of performance are arbitrary.
If speed of running had meaning it would be dependent on avoiding capture by Mr Lion or being hit by a truck.
Ran 16 miles plus this morning averaging around 8 minute mile pace. Or was it 26 km plus averaging 4:58's?
Only thing to note was being slower for more effort than I used to be.
Then again, the beer I'm drinking didn't used to be once - we move on.
🙂
Beutiful, but very hard run this morning from St Ives alone the South West Coast path. I was only looking for an easy 12 miler, but the first couple of miles of hilly tarmac lulled me into a false sense of security. Once out of the hubbub of St Ives, the path chnaged from tarmac to increasingly gnarly rocky paths, that were either steeply up or steeply down! The expected rain never materialised and instead it was hot and sunny. Combjned with last night's 7 pints and a curry and no water with me, the return journey from near Zennor became a bit of an epic. After weaving through favingcrowds in tf harbour, I had to climb some steep steps back to the apartment. Just before the top, my hamstring cramped, confirming how dehydrated I was. Despite a pint of water, half pint of coffee and a beer, I didn't pee for 3 hours!
Always min/miles. I once swapped for a 5k and rucked the maths up in my head beforehand for going under 16 mins. Thought I was cruising knocking 3.10s out then missed out. Haha.
Good and casually relayed iron man Reg! I'm not sure if I've congratulated you on it previously or not elswhere, or if that was something else, but either way, nice one
Bus - looked a horrible one on Strava. Joined you in "odd piss" club today. Browny red job....so I obviously underdid the water the last 2 days up north. Quickly back to just light brown then yellow... it's a strenuous exercise thing as well as colossally dangerous stuff, thank goodness!
Double header of footy games then up north, first time the calendar has ever worked..well, that I haven't bottled. Like the time I couldn't face the extra haul onto Blackpool v Wycombe when there were high winds one year!
Dodgy fuelling of fish and chips 10pm Friday night, then Maccy D's yesterday (my once yearly!), but run off with a 12miler this morn. After a 450mile driving couple of days, I said 10miles would be plenty, but eased it up.
Still a 57 mile week.
Still need to plan what's what racing wise. Anyone local got any target races?
Matt - still have an eye on that Podium 5k on Bank Hol Mon. I'm up there that day anyway, so would just need to add an extra night stay over.
Saw that Trafford 10k is still open too, but I think i'll limit to a 5k if anything.
Will have to look at some old Moz logs to see if the best strategy is a month or so of re-applying tempos then adding reps for longer distance races, or starting a base period. The latter might be better in a few months after some spring races.
Well done on the relays SG. Not sure about your road trip for the football, mind!
SC, hope the 5000m went well!
Bus, good coastal run there! That part of the coast path is gnarly - funny you should have sunny weather when we are overcast with showers!
Did a coastal race on Saturday - organised by Mudcrew, a trail running club that notably doesn't do easy, which includes a February coast path 100-miler, from Coverack to Porthtowan, with a 36hr cut off.
This event, the RAT, had 4 flavours - White (11mi), Red (20mi), Black (32mi) and the Plague (64mi). I'm down for the white because I'm a pansy, but hindsight makes me wish I'd put down for the 20. I've done the 11 before in 2015, in 1:38ish and finishing 10th, and the 20 in 2016, finishing 11th in 3:38ish.
So, naturally, lining up with an idea of having a time to beat, or at least placing. The weather is drizzly, but we'd had some heavy rain overnight - so the trails had turned quite greasy and not great underfoot, whilst the weather was perfect for running really. This race starts at Gorran Haven (having been bussed out) and ends at Porthpean - the event HQ and camping ground!
Some fast runners around, including some notable ultra-runners looking for a sprint distance! Having done the course the before I know the pinch points, which includes several stiles within the first mile, so it's a lactate-inducing dash up a large hill to beat the crowds.
It's hard to know where you sit in the pack as the race progresses, as you catch up the faster runners from the other distances. No major mishaps, and due to the cooler conditions I only drank half the water in my Camelbak (carrying hydration is mandatory for the event), so didn't stop at the checkpoint loaded with drinks and food for all distances (very welcome on the 20+).
I start to scrape past a few people that I note passed me early on as I relaxed after the pinch points - including the first lady and some very keen people that confess to be newbies. Oh how they are in for a surprise later on! Some very steep ups and downs, and a generous helping of foot-high steps that make the calves burn. A good 7 or 8 scalps taken overall.
On the final hill up to the top, I encouraged a runner ahead of me, not knowing what distance they were doing - turns out they were a White too, and I could have gained a place!
Overall finished in 1h40m33, 11th overall - 8 seconds behind 10th! GPS came out just over 10mi, but with 800m of elevation - likely that could be responsible for the loss of distance.
Happy with the result, only 2m30 down on the other year and one place down - but like last week's HM it's a confidence booster for where I'm headed. Also very happy given the amount of flat running I've done recently - my calves now hate me!
Seems a mad event Matt. Not surprised you took the shortest option, as "coastal race" is a phrase synonymous with blustery tough terrain!
At least it's moved away from red hot though. Locally, the Burnham Beeches half was today. Normally one of the hottest days of the year, this time, not too bad I expect. Though it was still humid
They've got the Murder Mile results up on po10 accounts now. It's quite irritating if you click on them, it takes you into Run Britain, and you have to specifically then go back into PO10 to look people up.
Anyway, obviously the difficulty rating was the max of 6, so it's bumped me down to a 0.7 handicap, equalling my all time record. If we have to deal with Run Britain might as well take the positive readings
ps Matt, had a little look at Wycombe's game at Plymouth in 2 Tuesdays. Would an insane trip though. My SW geography is shocking. Is that anywhere near you?
It's a brilliant event, even though you know it's gonna be tough there's great camaraderie. 11 was won in just under 1h30, the 20 in 2h45, the 32 in 4h40, and the 64 in 11h40 - absolute madness given the terrain! It's a given the majority of people don't do the even competitively, some taking a few hours for even the shortest distance. To be fair, there are some good views to be had!
Same too on the race Matt. Not many places near where I live that could have so much elevation.
My views on adequate hydration are known. Needless to say, this morning before heading out, I'd already had several mugs of tea. While waiting for the Garmin to latch on to the satellite, I downed a pint of diluted Luc Sport.
After an hour of running, I drank another pint of the stuff only at full strength. Another bottle which I bought at the time, I drank about 15 minutes later.
With three miles to go, I stopped at an outside drinking fountain at Hillingdon AC's club house.
Pint of lemonade and Luc sport when I got in.
I reckon on losing a pint every 30 minutes. It all adds up.
🙂
Ran the Burnham Beeches HM today though. Always a lovely event through the woods and over the hills. Caught your mate Dom after 3 miles or so (so he must have had a pretty steady start today) and ran steadily through picking up a few places here and there to get in to the top 20. Fastest I’ve ever run round there so life in this dog yet.
Always a risk having a flight getting in just before a race! Wouldn't have helped.
Good work at Burnham. Lucky it wasn't the usual scorcher, but perhaps humid anyway. Either way you're at the top of your form this last year.
Closing in on the end of summer now, so time to re-apply some tempos and build to longer stuff.
It's time to amend my zones, as to be honest I never re-set them from the highs of 2012-2014!
Therefore, although i'm hitting sub 6 for those 6-7miles at MP, it's probably likely it's working a bit harder than i should be.
I'm thinking of using Feb's half as the basis for the zones, as it's pretty much only been miles-5ks since, and i'm not sure I've ever maximised those distances. If we use the 5k recent time, I think the higher distances come out a bit slow.
Therefore, using a 1.17.10 half (average 5.53/5.54), we'd have the below
From my times doing those sub 6mile runs and classing them as MP, I wouldn't want the HMP zone any slower than above, as say for example it's 6min miling, then I'd probably be able to do that in training, whereas when setting my pbs I wouldn't have wanted to try it!
On the other hand, I wouldn't want the MP to go down from the above, as slower than 6.20 would feel too little of a workout.
We'll see how these goes, and I'll have to remember it's 1.32 lapping now (quickest!), not trying to beat 1.30
Any thoughts? First time I've ever reduced the zones, as 2010-14 it only went the other way!
I call it T for "theoretical" Marathon pace, as I know it rankles some people, as I don't do marathons.
It's merely a tempo (style of run as opposed to the zone called tempo) run that I've always found very useful in the build up to racing over 5miles.
Usually starts with 5-6miles steady, build in a 4-6 week block of MP runs (fused with the other session of the week working other zones), then layer it with MP/HMP pace changes, before breaking it down to whatever the target distance race is with specific stuff. 3x2mile HMP being a late campaign favourite.
Just ran the 16.56 5k through the Daniels VDot calc.
Gives a MP of 6.11,so almost dead on with above.
Their threshold is 5.52, which is in between the slow ends of my Tempo (10mile pace) and HMP.
So probably in and around the right mix.
While in theory MP zone as I use it, and the zone true marathoners use it could connect with the right training, it's why I add "Theoretical" to the description now.
I can imagine that true marathon pace might be as slow as 6.45-6.55, especially first time out, so training 6-7miles at that pace would have no benefit over easy.
But low 6s are still a decent workout, and get you used to working for a good amount of time to race 5mile upwards, while not leaving you wiped out. ( I doubt i'd ever be doing say a 13-14miler at 6 to 6.10 for instance as á MP run!)
The run you mention for instance wouldn't be a 6-7mile continuous run without serious effort. At my top fitness, the 2 low 57s for 10miles, I remember getting 2x3miles off at 5.45 ish, and hitting 5.42 in a race. It would have been unthinkable to do that without a decent recovery mid rep.
Similarly, 4miles at HMP was the highest continuous session at that pace I did (again, 2x3m, or 3x2m with recoveries doable), which is why i'm sure HMP should be the zone above rather than say 6 dead.
When doing tempos, if its a short one I go quicker (eg- 3 miles @ 5.20-5.30) and if its longer I go a bit slower (10 @ 5.40- 5.50).
I do agree with Reg though in that if I was doing TMP runs in training but not doing a marathon then I'd always make it a 8-10 miler. Even throw a few hills in en route.