Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Nice turnout Pete - certainly can't knock what temperature can do to performance, so I wouldn't worry too much about the time differential.

    Are those vouchers straight cash off these days, or is it still the off full priced shoes?
  • Matthew HeadMatthew Head ✭✭✭
    edited July 4
    Nicely done with the parkrun and 10km Pete. I find it's hard to make allowances for the heat, some days it's dry and the sun's beating down, whereas others there's a keen breeze - yet for both the air temperature could be the same. One's obviously better than the other, but what's the difference in effect on performance? Solid time banked either way! I'm sure you'll see the time down again with cooler weather.
    Forgot to comment on Muddy - it takes some discipline to not give into temptation and attack for the win! 36 mins is tidy for not going all out.

    Oh, and you'd best not moan too much about dog walkers, we've recently got a golden retriever, otherwise I'll make sure I take a day trip to head out for a walk around your way :D
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    lol Matt, I'm often out with my older daughter's GSD so have to keep a foot in both camps too!

    Proper money off vouchers SG; That's because Yateley pay Alton towards them according to Scott E (no idea at what discount). Just need Scott to confirm or otherwise if you can amalgamate more than 1 against 1 purchase.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Sounds ideal then Pete. I think I've written off using my 3 "dough off full price" ones...will keep them for the "look" in my records :open_mouth:

    MH - too true on the lottery of the temp/weather.
    GSR v Maidenhead 10s are my perfect example. Probably similar sort of temps, came almost identical times, yet former, felt a right wipe out, latter, fairly comfy in comparison.
  • Simon Coombes 2Simon Coombes 2 ✭✭✭
    edited July 4

    Pete - I'm sure you'll be able to double up on the vouchers. If you're off this thread you'll be ok (from experience). Great race and report, warm weather and 10k is quite a bit after work - I prefer 5k really. I'm sure that thread member from up there (Deano) has probably done it before - I think he's turned totally to booze and takeaways nowadays :)

    Decent little run there MH, sounds good. Good tempo Dachs.

    Won't bother with a massive report from last night's 1500. The guy who was going to go round with me got injured in the 400m, so it was a bit silly. About 8 of us in it - I did 73, 2.29, 3.25 ish at the bell and 4.38 I think to finish, won it by 60m or so.

    Then did a 200m leg in the 4 x 200m relay - felt better by then as the Anadin Extra had kicked in, legs felt amazing!!! (shame they screw your stomach up when you run long distance) :)

  • WoolWool ✭✭✭

    ah, Pete. The voice of calm and reason. Here's me pretty much giving up running having finished 36s slower than race 1. In summary, I went out too quick and finished too slowly. Funny that there were a lot of folks down on times last evening and plenty with splits as shocking as mine when I'm not sure conditions were really that bad. In reality, that's the 1st poor race I've had in 2019 but it's really done my head in. Not quite sure what to do but the likelihood is that I'll lock myself away safe from races again until Mhd HM on 1st Sep. I think the reality is that the afterglow of a good winter of training lights up a couple of months in to the summer. This was just the light going out....so time for some proper training again.

    Always nice to catch up though and really hope you can make race 3 and secure the V50 prize. BTW, Yateley 10k has always come up long on my watch, and I've been through a few watches!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Chin up Wool, son! It's hot at the moment, and when all the people whose times I've seen have been slower than last time, that speaks volumes!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    For what it's worth I thought the Bus dwarf story was great,  a real midget gem.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Didn't manage to get caught all the way up but happy birthday to SC and there's bound to be a Pete 38:xx 10k in there somewhere.

    I am struggling to run. Leg feels unstable, still bruised around the hip and has a fair bit of fluid there too. Tried running a bit but I feel like I am running with a handbrake on. Starting to think about getting an x-ray. Just in case I am running about on a fractured hip. Also hoping I can get the fluid drained off so I don't look like I have one fat thigh.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited July 4
    Wool; not sure about 'dew point' (any scientists here?) but this website link should provide some solace https://runnersconnect.net/training/tools/temperature-calculator/ 

    I put in 60 and 75 degrees (roughly Yateley 1 and 2 temps) with a goal pace of 6mm and it suggested 11 secs per mile more for the latter which is nearly a minute over 10k (which is how much slower I was). Also told once by an old running guru from my club its 0.5 secs a mile for every degree over 60F up to 70F then 1 secs after that which again is 10 secs per mile from 60F to 75F. This site shows similar http://i.imgur.com/6oYb1p1.png  

    So on those bases your run yesterday was almost half a min better than your first one so no need to get down about it! 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Get it looked at Reggie - I think you're one of these "trooper" types, who would bravely struggle on with one leg hanging off, so wouldn't be surprised if you're carrying something ugly.

    Avoided one this lunchtime, checked right before running across a crossroad, looked again, and a car was hurtling at what must have been a good 45/50. I managed to stop, and myself and the driver gave each other a sheepish wave after! Not that close a miss, but that is why tempos round this area aren't sensible :)

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Had a go at that link Pete, can't quite see how it works.

    Are the dew and temp the same value? Are they in degrees or F?

    Is the "target pace" completed with a . or a : ie 17.20, or 17:20 for instance?

    I tried a few variants, and it took my target of 17.20 to either 22mins or 30mins, off 20 degrees/60 F!
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    I put dew point in the same as temp but don't really understand it (its to do with humidity though). Its American so all in Fahrenheit and target pace is per mile so enter say 0:06:00 and then enter race pace for the intensity. It then churns out what your adjusted pace will be for the temp you have entered (if you start about 50 degree that will also come out around 0:06:00 in my example as that is ideal temp). The diff between 60 and 75 degrees was about 10 secs per mile.

    Reg; I'll have you know there have been a couple of 37'xx 10k's recently (one of which you were in ;) ) Hope you improve soon and echo SG saying its got to be worth getting checked out however much you don't want to have to.   
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    thanks Pete. Believe it or not I am a scientist of sorts. What I recall is that the relationship between dew point, air temp, and humidity is pretty complex! It’s been a while though.

    Sometimes it’s not the absolute outcome but the manner of the performance. Giving up and running a 6:25 mile is pretty pathetic!! Need to decide whether or not to run Ickenham 5 on Sunday morning, forecast looks good and a bounce back race might flush a few demons. But, getting some miles in might be more beneficial as I’ve got a mara plan to get on in a couple of weeks time. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Blimey - one day not looking on here and there are dozens of posts!

    Pete - that looks like a good 10k from here given the heat! 

    Simon - solid, and quick by most people's standards! A wins a win too!

    Wool - as SG says, chin up, no more than a blip given your recent performances - it happens.

    Reg - definitely worth getting it checked out, if only to rule out anything serious. Sounds like bursitis?

    As for dogs, I quite like the things (as long as they don't want to bite me!) and grew up with them in the family. Just that some of their owners are a bit weird (I mean "fur babies???" FFS!).

    Little chance of a vendetta - I was running two hours earlier than normal for that route. Besides, the only dwarves I know with axes to grind are in the Hobbit :smiley:

    Double day today. Legs feeling it after yesterday, so pretty slow.   F-off tomorrow

    Can't decide whether to do parkrun Saturday and/or BP 5k on Monday.....

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    If you're paid and entered Wool, and really aren't keen on Runnymede, just have a whirl. Psychologically 5milers are always easier than 10k, even though the pace needed is pretty much the same.

    No worse case scenario - if it comes out well, it's excellent, if not, it's a tidy run out, before focus moves on.

    Still think you should have a few more 5k run outs - it's the summer son! Most of the year we're training for longer stuff and slightly cursing it - enjoy it now!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 4

    Simon - how many turnouts is that this year now? Check ya spreadsheet for us ;)

    Bus - I'd go BP. A parkrun will only give you a tonne of disclaimers about course, or the prevo niz's booze up. Go to BP, and unforeseen pony aside, there's no escaping a "this is where you are" benchmark.

    (I'll try and avoid adding BP Monday into the "should I … / which of 3 choices" Tuesday race debate!)

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Dew point and humidity are really just about how effectively your sweat can evaporate. If the dew point is high and humidity low, then the air has plenty of "room" for the water vapour from sweat , so it can evaporate more quickly giving a much more efficient cooling effect.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Good casual 1500 canter to a win Simon in that heat last night

    Thanks for the science lesson Bus/Wool; feel a bit more informed now. Wool your 6'25 final mile was uphill and at the end of a 10k so not too bad (I was even worse!). 

    Got similar races dilemma to Bus and Wool. There is Ickenham Sunday which I've not entered (is it too late now?) but is a fast 5 miler I've done before and not many of those nearby. Like Wool I'd like to put last night's run behind me with a better one. Then there is BP on Monday which I would like to try and do but don't feel in the right form for and it is a right bind to get there. Also have the 3rd of the Dinton series on Thursday and not sure about 2 evening races in the same week. Suppose BP would look more attractive if their were other threadsters there, especially if we can go for a beer after, so let's keep each other informed of plans. Finally like Wool I'm supposed to be starting a plan for much longer distance stuff, namely Maidenhead 1/2 so need to really start doing some long runs. Views please anyone? Suppose I should only do any races if its going to be a lot cooler than last night.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Meeting up for beer after BP is very tempting Pete, but I need to get back promptly for an early start to drive to Kent in the morning, and that trip home involves two bike rides and a train journey! It is a bit of a bind for sure! 

    I did think about one of those local cock and biscuit events that keep springing up as a multi-terrain 10k, supporting a school funds. This Sunday it's the "Burford Bolt" with the RO being one of our local run celebs Sam Amend, but its £23 to enter in advance!  Call me a tight arse, but I just can't bring myself to spend that sort of money on that type of race, even if the proceeds do go to a school!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I went to boarding school and there were rumours of cock and biscuit events in the dorms. I didn’t realise it was still a thing?
  • Cheers Pete- wasn't that warm Weds night really, just stupidly windy for Bedford (a typically windy track), but it was only supposed to be 5-6 mph!

    Wool - definitely get back on the race horse! 10k is a long way for a night race as it is - let alone in the warm! Just forget about it and move on to the next one. Trouble is..the more and more of the time you train and not race, it gets harder to race when the chance comes around.

    Then you get the other end of the scale where you race to much...hello ;)


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Wycombe parkrun this morning. Best time of the year so far  - yay! 19:12 for 5th place and splits of 6:01, 6:24, 6:14, 32. Happy enough with that, and reckon sub 19 would be pretty doable on a fast course.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Sounds a decent outing Bus, especially as you have those steps to deal with there still I assume. I was about the same time (19'02) and same finishing place at Rushmoor but that's a faster course. Should be more like 18'40 there so not really happy with today, but maybe too soon after Wednesday's hard 10k race. Def not racing tomorrow and feel there's little point treking to BP Monday to run 18'3x or 18'4x which is all I could expect really. 

    Off to watch some of the Night of 10000 Pb's now so will watch how proper runners do it!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited July 7
    Pete - even you must get some post race fatigue from time to time :smile:

    I agree about BP - the trek over there seemed worthwhile for a stab at a sub 18 and PB, but not just to dip back under 19 tbh....

    Yep - still has the steps. I reckon they add about 10-12 secs onto mile 2, but difficult to say if that has any residual effect on mile 3.....
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 7

    Cruising top performances is what our boy Simon does best!

    Solid parkrun turnouts. I get what you chaps mean by not wanting to do BP as not feeling top notch, but I suppose it gives you a no excuses, no adjustments proper idea of what you can do flat out for 5k.

    Obvs bar some scorcher or some other factor, but as good as you can possibly hope for. A shame to not do any there of a summer. I'll deffo be back there soon ish, but not tomorrow.

    Just a 10 for me today, 7.13 or so average. Felt plenty enough after Runnymede relays yesterday.

    Which as I've a packed day tomorrow, and there's a "lull" on here today, I best pump a report out...

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 7

    Runnymede Relay then with the club.

    Usual format is 6 in a team, 3 do a long leg around 5.5miles, and 3 do a short leg of 2.8ish miles. Only 3 senior males in a team.

    This year, they didn't have full access to the long leg, presumably royals related, so it was changed to a straight, 6 x "medium" leg of 3.5miles. They also tweaked the rule that you needed one woman in the team too. Plus they wouldn't be bothering with individual times/places on the go - just final ordering.

    The club were a little loose with getting arrangements sorted this year, with Endure and the club's Beat the Boat races very close together, so prompted by me pointing out that it was just over a week ahead, we quickly put a team together.

    Last year saw me slip into the B team, as the 3 star senior men were all in last year, but  now two of them are over 40, so we could have had all 3, and me...and the younger guy Hunt in one team.

    Sod's law obviously dictated that one of the V40s was unavailable!! If that'd happened, I'd have weasled in last year and bagged a trophy :D

    Anyway, two of our star men, me, Chunt made a solid 4, plus a married couple new to the club. Both V45s but the guy particularly had an epic back catalogue, low 15s 5ks etc. He's back on the rise.

    Reading and some random "army" team who run under Milocorian would be the usual suspect rivals. Sandhurst and Watford have had ups and downs in other years, but neither have been "That" strong recently.

    It's interesting looking back, as in 2013, I was Sandhurst's 2nd fastest guy, when we came 2nd that year. Whereas for Datchet nowadays I'm usually "solid" middle ground material at best.

    40min drive to Windsor. Usual wrong turn, and ended up by some pub from a social last year. For the first time, despite doing efforts near there, and the aforementioned pub trip, I noticed a massive army barracks site pretty much next to it! That's top class observationals! Plenty of rozz out as well with the royals apparently in town.


    I'm always in two minds about this relay to be honest. I find the course a real slog - being offroad with hills, that is always on a very hot and humid day, that runs between 12-2, to get maximum toughness of conditions! I've never run that well here.

    I vowed never to do the long leg again after 2017, where I came as close to re-living the Wycombe half of 2015 ending, literally spending 20mins face in turf after.

    However - it's always a chance of a nice little team shield - with prizes going down to 3rd.

    With this year being the medium leg, I signed up again. Basically a "Long" 5k.


    Setting up "camp" in super long grass, with occasional treats of stingers and cowpats was lovely. As was trying to do a warm up through that, and random ankle snapping dips :D

    Our star man this year was Mr Lee, who'd be leading us out. You always get the "proper" race on leg 1, so when you put your fastest out, within a race, you always get a good time.

    I was down for 2nd, only because our 2nd best guy would arrive later. This is one of the key things with this event, seemingly barely anyone can stay the whole time, and it's only a couple of hours! It's no 12 stage!

    It suddenly dawned on me, that 2nd in a way is the worst leg when your guy will most likely be in 1st!

    I realised I could well have a solo leg, or at worst be hunted by someone. I wondered if anyone would take longer than 40 or so mins on leg 1 that I might see late on.

    Lee came in with a high 19min job, and gave me a 30secs or so lead. It was over an old pal at Sandhurst, who I tend to be ahead of. We'd bandied all manner of disclaimers pre race, I was going "averagely", and he said he "wouldn't" catch me :) I do know that he's decent offroad though, but then again I beat him at the Handy Cross XC where I dribbled to 10th home from the club alone!

    First mile features a gentle climb up a grass incline for about 0.8miles, and then you hit a sharp steep 100metre or so hill that sweeps round to road that carries on climbing.

    A good 100ft climb in this mile, which must come largely at the back end of it.

    Already breathing like a dog, and only tracking at 6min miling. Others seem to run very fast here, but I never get past "solid".

    The road climbs a bit, and I can't hear or feel anyone too close behind. We're not expecting Sandhurst to be in the mixer, and they've already had their top man out. It's where Reading and Milocorian are behind that's the crux.

    Get to 2miles is all I'm thinking, as that's the top elevation of the course. The course then sweeps to the right, and sort of through some woods in fields.

    There's one of those dreaded "switchbacks", where you can see anyone behind for a good couple of hundred metres.

    I'm delighted to see no one at all, so enjoy a nice little storm downhill.  I certainly don't feel like I'm at race intensity, but I certainly wouldn't fancy any faster. Barely tracking above 6min miling.

    Keep waiting for the last switch back to the "main field" as I probably wrongly label it, and at 2.5miles I can now see the finish.

    The only problem, is that you have probably the longest straight in the history of the world first. The turning round point is so far in the distance you can't even see it at this point, despite it looking slightly downhill.

    The grass is blimming long, and it's hard to use the "racing line" here. The rule in the Great Park is apparently you can't run on the wide smooth path that is right next to it, literally 5metres away :D Dastards!

    (Writing this on a wireless keyboard, that freezes for10 seconds every paragraph is bloody frustrating can I just add :) )

    Slog on, and Rob F is well positioned on the other side, screaming to push it, and the dreaded "every second counts" line, that always taps into your "do it for the team" thinking.

    I'm remembering the 2017 almost being wiped out feeling, but I'll see it in a bit better this year.

    Round the ticker tape, and finally on the final run in, but yes, you've guessed it, it's seemingly miles! Looking at my watch thinking, this ain't gonna be 3.5miles!!

    One last storm in, almost catch a leg 1 guy, and the gorgeous moment I pass to our lady runner.

    Down on haunches, and stay there for a couple of mins. Thank goodness that's done! Nearer 3.7miles than 3.5, for what I eventually realised was about 21.44, not the 40secs I left it running after... "Only" 6.02-5 ish sort of pace, but you wouldn't guess it from the look of me :)

    I'm not normally up so early in a relay, but it's great then! You can enjoy the rest of it! Someone later even asked if I'd "run yet", which is an improvement from 2 years ago, where it was very obvious, as I was whiter than a sheet.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 7


    So my work done, and I've basically kept the 30secs or so lead - BUT to a different team. Milocorian's guy must have taken however much out of me, so they're in 2nd now, and the danger team all of a sudden.

    Our lady was about 22mins on some massive elevation USA 5k, so will be a good chunk quicker in her locker, but is mid 40s, and this Milo girl looks about 15! We know the Reading lady is a mid 18 5k runner, and it turns out this Milo one is similar...so we might take a couple of min hit here.

    So it pans out, as we start leg 4 about 1min 10 behind Milo, with Reading about 10secs behind us. However, this is our 2nd best runner in the team, recent Beat the Boat 10k winner, and an offroad animal. We make a dodgy presumption that he'll be able to take that 1min 10 down, as well as hold off a pretty decent 1hr 15 half this year V45 Reading guy too.

    Instead, the 3 of them come in pretty much as you were, so the Milo guy who with silver hair must be at least late 40s, maybe older, must be an excellent runner, and done a great leg. Possibly losing a couple of secs, but the lead is still comfortably over a min.

    This was the leg we needed to catch up, as we know Reading have a guy who on a hot night did a 35.30 10k, and has more in his locker, versus our fast, but still a min off that last guy. We need to get him a min lead really.

    It's clear by leg 5 holding off Reading is the real battle today, as Milo for once have put in all solid runners. They normally have a couple of animals and it tails off, but not today.

    Henry therefore has a small lead over a Reading V50. Very keenly matched battle, that sees Reading come past apparently, but then fade, so Henry increases what was probably 15sec lead to 31. ( I counted the 31 myself :) )

    Milo have a good 1.30 lead on leg 6, and Chris is looking over very nervously at the lad McCoy who is a fast short legger, but infamous for insane starts. Either getting him in loads of chat and missing his cue, or him trying to make up the 30secs in half a mile are our main two hopes :D

    But alas, despite a very good leg from Chris, you can't hold someone off who is probably 90secs ahead of you over 10k (McCoy having done well into the 34s recently), and we end up miles ahead of 4th, but at least in the trophies.

    Would have been different if Samson as usual was in the team, and certainly if Jill was. Noone locally would get near her on the women's side. Of course Reading if they had their full pick they wouldn't be beaten - but they're "too" big in a way.

    Chunt was probs 20-25secs quicker than me, and Henry was somewhere in the 31;xxs not sure exacts. I suppose I could have squeezed a bit more if I'd had some semblance of a "Race" on my leg, like these chaps, but at the time I was glad of not having one!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 7

    (Quick switch to Chrome to upload a pic or two, half wondering if I should have written the whole thing here...)

    Obligatory shot without the full 6, as inevitably someone will have stacked their day to have to be 2 or 3 different places. Always find this a little mad, as surely noone wins so many trophies, they can be blase about getting one! You never know when one will be your last!

    3rd place shield is a cute little plate.



    I was probably the only one not too disappointed about 3rd place, as it completes my set.
    :D :D

    2nd in 2013 with Sandhurst
    1st in 2017 with Dashers



    Certainly beats last year's piss about on leg 6 with the B team - going off after the proper teams had finished!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited July 7

    So what's next?

    "May" have a look at Datchet 5k Tue, for the sheer convenience on being on the way home, but maybe not.  While I'd see it in under 18 it probably wouldn't be as sharp as I'd like.


    I think the last 2 turnouts have shown that I need a couple of track sessions before going again really, although Marlow 5k more shows that then yesterday - as I never put a top shift in here - everything about it doesn't personally suit me.

    Probably a bit of Endure still left in the system.

    Car has some minor issue that hooning down to Wales or Gosport on Tuesday probably ties up with it not quite being worth it this week - with the rest of the context too.

    Hard to get the right mix of sessions v races in the summer I think - as there's so many tempting races. 


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