Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Sorequads said:

    15 minutes in - got a call to say he’d cut his head. Another trip to MIU for glue and zero chance of a properly relaxing day. I looked a bit of a weapon in some bright running clothing and one high viz calf sleeve 😆. 

    The scars you get when young are always the most impressive when you grow up. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    My sons knee scar where he had it ripped open by a rugby stud and needed about a dozen stitches still looks like a dead slug 4 years on!

    Feeling a bit pissed off tonight! I thought the hamstring was getting better and, even though Monday's run wasn't perfect, it felt OK the last couple of days and I thought having had another 3 days off, I'd be OK to try again today. Proved not to be, and a short, flat one at lunch just seem to set me back to square one - not helped by only realising it wasn't going well when I was at the furthest point (only 2M) away with little option but to run home.  I'm annoyed with myself, as a few more days might have made the difference - but patience has never been my strong point! So now best part of 4 weeks of training gone and ironically, into the same period as the six week loss last year because of the thorn. 

    Still, in the grand scheme of things it's really a non issue. My wife has just had her 3rd session of chemo and it's fair to say that's a pretty bloody grim affair so any moaning about not being able to run is pretty pathetic really, and not something I can get away with at home - but I know you guys will at least understand my frustration  :-) 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Best wishes to your wife Bus, tough times, life isnt easy at times........spend a few bob on getting some fizz on those hammies will you. I had to do that a few weeks ago, took a while to work but its helped a bit.......hammy issues are crap, they cost me a dns at vlm 2018 and a dnf at yeovil a couple of months later, took some massage of the hammy and tendons to get back to it. They collect a lot of fatigue in us old unsupple runners.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Blimey Bus
    Hope the chemo is doing its job & your wife comes through this OK.
    No wonder you need the relief of outdoor exercise more than ever.
    Get that hammy seen to as it doesn't seem to be healing by itself.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Cheers gents (and you are absolutely spot on about getting out Jools!)

    I'm a bit torn about going to a physio if I'm honest. Over the years I've had some very positive experiences of physios (especially NHS where they just want to fix you an wave goodbye!) but also equally some pretty negative ones! Some decent massage therapy will no doubt help, but mainly I just need to do what I know a physio would tell me anyway and rest it!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    I’m not so sure rest is the solution Bus https://www.running-physio.com/load-me-up/
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Bus - im with jools, not all fizz is about rest nowadays. Worth a try, get some massage/release as a minimum.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Bad combo Bus old son. Feel for you! Just the bit I can relate to with the niggly bits is bad enough, let alone the "real world" stuff :(

    Impossible to say what's going on for us lot. Like Jools says, sometimes rest doesn't do it - I remember exactly that situation with a groin thing once - a physio told me just rest would never fix it, but you're in a position where it feels like you're waving a stick in the wind a little with testing runs and bound to be a case of trial and improvement, steps forward and back.

    So what to do. I've had a few of those NHS physios and they always have sorted me. But then they've always taken ages to book and the date come round, so you always wonder if that 6-8 weeks was the bigger help, and that it wasn't actually that big an issue!

    Presumably there's some plan at your work you can tap into quicker access physio? Hopefully so.

    Just don't go to the fella who thinks everything can be solved by snapping your back :D 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 16
    Tried to remember the unwritten thing Bus's post says, in being grateful to be able to run, when I was out for the morning track sesh :)
    Never fancy it on the warmup. I try and remember that.
    Tend to start considering editing the session these days too - but very rarely do :)


    So the next sesh of the 5k plan, having done the 6x800m (well, half miles) and bits after on the road on Tue

    8x600m at 3k intensity this time. Choice of 90-120secs recovery, so chose the longer one this time.

    I'm sure I got these off at 1.55 or so a few years ago, but that was 2018, normal times, following a great HM, in superb form, almost peak ever 5k shape, and full racing/training with people sort of set up.
    Therefore, had to forget that and concentrate on the now.


    All in, averaged in the 1.58xx mix.  One starting with a 1.57, one starting with a 1.59, but the rest starting with a 1.58. Bit of wind, of course, always seems to be these days,

    Probably 1.19 lapping then, so that's 5.18 pace, justifiably claimed as a 3k pace, probably quicker to be honest.

    That'll do then. 7miles banked, probably a 3-4mile pootle later.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Decent session SG. Was a bit breezy.

    I did the 8 min tempo - 3 mins -  then 11 x 400 (supposed to be 10) off 60, then 3 mins and 8 min tempo back home. Really hard back generally uphill to home into the breeze too.

    Bus - Didn't know about the wife. As SG says, real life stuff. Hope the hammy gets better soonish..
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Cheers chaps.  I agree Jools/TR. My view is rest is just for the first bit where you need to not aggravate whatever the issue us, but that targeted loading etc helps. I think when discomfort turns to pain though, that's the time to back off as pain is a sure sign you aint helping! 

    I'll do some digging to try and find a good local physio - not the guy who snaps everything back in place though SG!

    MTB tonight for a bit of variety, but all that standing on the pedals on the gnarly downhills was probably not helpful! I've not been out on the MTB since last summer - my bike handling on the rough stuff very much reflected that! 
  • Bus - so sorry to hear about the wife. Thoughts firmly with you and the family. Put it all into perspective for sure.

    Where exactly is the problem again? Mentioned few weeks back that I've been struggling with mine. Hamstring Tendonopathy both physios said. I've really laid off the running and given it a real rest - thankfully biking doesn't aggravate it at all. Lots of loading exercises, lots of spikey ball. Finally seems to be turning a bit of a corner. 10 miles this morning which is the longest I've done for months. Small amount of pain at the end but just fatigued I think.

    Enjoyed the report a while back SG.

    I've just been ripping my legs apart on the bike recently, hopefully if the hamstring holds up I'll get back to a bit of faster running soon. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17
    Good to see you back JB.
    Hope the current injureenos, Bus, Pete, and yourself for 3 get things going in the right direction asap. We need everyone fit happy and well, and ideally racing to really keep the thread buzzing over.

    Had a look at Runthrough's "summer pass". £220 for unlimited events "between June and September" and entry whether they've declared it full or not.

    Looking at it, they'e generally £22 a 5k, maybe £24 10k, £28 for HM, and I presume £30-32 for a marathon.

    So you'd need to do 10x5ks to get your value back.

    Probably struggling to get 10 5ks in in that period in fairness, without going to midland/north! Even if "to September" counts as end of Sep, rather than what I suspect is 1st Sep.
     More value in doing the longer events, but realistically doing a half marathon in distanced format seems an absolute nightmare.

    Then the issue of you'd basically be signing your whole summer up to 1 event organiser just as other stuff starts to open up.

    Will keep it to individual sign ups I think... a few in the mix for May.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about your wife Bus, I can relate completely and I appreciate the benefits of getting out exercising, it's my therapy.

    Good to see some progress JB and sounds like you're really enjoying being out of the big smoke.

    I did a 16 miler on the trails mostly around the local country park today.10km recovery then into a bit of progression starting with 5km easy and then 5km slowly building to tempo. Finished with about 6km cool down. The faster 5km covered a rival clubs 
    Captains Challenge, the local tri clubs are competing in four stages, 2 runs 2 bikes over the next 8 weeks. You get two weeks to have a go at each challenge. I did 19:39 for the 5km, clearly not flat out as part of a long run but I was happy enough with how it felt.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Captain's Challenge. A phrase that always akes me back to the Marlow days where they arranged some decent ones - 30mile routes ,split into sections do as many legs as you fancied, loads of people etc.

    Except that last year, where me and one other guy ended basically doing 13miles down the river, then the same back (with 0.2m round our club field).
    Boiling hot day. Marvellous. Not.

    13 today.  Spiced up by trying a different wood hill start for a dribbling pace start, and then out to a park I used to play footy in. 2-3 laps of that including a little wander through some woods out further - before curbing that in case I ended up miles out of dodge. 
    Minute or so stop to chat to an old pal, then back. Surprising to be 7.20 pace, but after the woods and hills, the smooth stuff naturally comes out at a sort of low 7s sort of flow.

  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Hope the leg is on the way then JB, sounds good. Decent run out Reggie!

    Not too bad a weekend here - jogged round 3k with the boy, then did the old 30 x 200 over the track, had the Adios on, so not 100% ideal, but stuck to 36's which is ok.

    14 or so this morning, couple of annoying 'downhill stitches' in the upper rib cage and then my shoes were hurting a little.

    Races wise, there is a 3000m at MK on 22/5/21, entered yesterday, may be places if anyone interested. Was toying with the idea of applying for the Wathamstow 'Fast Friday' 10,000m - but dithered and it sold out in 30 mins anyway. I would have only gone on the waiting list as the qualification is Sub 33/15.50!

    Youngster from LBAC won the Hurtwood 50k in 3.30 ish yesterday, 4,800 ft of climbing. Saying that he was 30th in the Southern xc last time out his dad was a 68m half guy.....
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Do you normally do track stuff in spikes then Simon? As a rookie in that side of things, how much difference do spikes make? Presumably they up the injury risk a bit?

    Saw the 3k race, but yeah, sounds a world of pain against chiselled "proper" AC type kids :)

    Saw the Dorney Lake results, I think they might have slightly done a typo as they have a V60 down at 15.43. A quick po10 check shows he's actually a V35. Just a slight difference then!
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    edited April 19
    Phew...not another fast old bastard! 

    The 3000 would be fine, not that elitist those events.

    I wear spikes 3000m and below, usually racing flats for 5,000 and upwards. You get a few wearing clown shoes for 5,000, but not expecting many wearing them in the 3000's - none in the faster races anyway.

    P.S. Don't ever call a 3000m a 3k near an old official. I did once - and he said 'That's a 3,000m to you son!' Love all that stuff ;)
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Bus; sorry to hear about your wife and really hope all goes well with her recovery. As others have rightly said, the health of our loved ones means way way more than anything else. I'm sure you are being her rock, but if it ever helps to vent on here (about anything !) use us lot as freely as you wish as "sounding boards who get you".

    Despite the above. injuries are still frustrating and must be more so for you at this time; I would strongly recommend more countryside walking and cycling (both road and MTB/hybrid). With my groin giving me grief I I took a break from running last week and did a lot of both which I really enjoyed. Was almost a shame to have to run again when it felt a bit better ;) Seriously glad to be running again and down to just a bit of discomfort now. One other thing is at our vintage we are not going to be breaking any records, even pb ones, so it could be it is best just to do any exercise you enjoy rather than fret about distance/elevation etc. (though appreciate it is hard to change from what we normally do).

    Good to see all others training well and happy. Hope you are back running properly soon Joe but immense cycling will also bring its rewards.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SCoombes2 said:
    Phew...not another fast old bastard! 

    The 3000 would be fine, not that elitist those events.

    I wear spikes 3000m and below, usually racing flats for 5,000 and upwards. You get a few wearing clown shoes for 5,000, but not expecting many wearing them in the 3000's - none in the faster races anyway.

    P.S. Don't ever call a 3000m a 3k near an old official. I did once - and he said 'That's a 3,000m to you son!' Love all that stuff ;)

    I think I've been told off about 3 times in my 265 race career, and all 3 times were in one of my 3 track races.

    Blocking the camera (!) taking a lap split, number on my back falling off, and running across the field  it was about 10pm and there wasn't even a field event on that night.
    The officials strike me generally a dinosaur generation. The likes still seen at the 12 stage where some oldies are doing it all by pencil as people are coming in :D 

    Do you do your reps in spikes was the real question I should have been clearer about :)
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Ah, you've got to love 'em SG  - it's all part of the track culture :smile:

    Thanks for all the comments gents - much appreciated!  

    Must admit Pete, sometimes an injury that stops you running, but still able to do other stuff can actually be a positive thing - as long as it doesn't last too long! Once you get past the stats and averages, when you are no longer chasing PBs you can look forward to re-building running fitness rather than looking at it as a bind!  I always enjoy getting back out on the bike after a break, especially in weather like the past few days, and I've really enjoyed walking more. A long walk is different , but more relaxed than a long run, and you've got time to enjoy your surrounding that bit more. I'm going to try and keep up both of those over the summer, but must admit, I'm kinda desperate for a decent run now :smiley:

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    ps - it's funny, I did 44M on the bike yesterday, which I think is a decent ride and I was definitely knackered at the end. One of my mates, who is a mountain biker, commented on Strava that it was a long one, which I guess it was in normal terms - but then you look at the exploits of the likes of Joe and Reg, and on some of their recent rides I'd have to do that ride twice and then still have half of it again to go, and all a few mph faster! All relative stuff though and ne of the many things I love about this thread :smile:   
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    edited April 19
    SG - Never train in spikes.I think I possibly ought to now and again though tbh...to get used to them a bit.

    I get your point about the old boys - but the sport would be dead without them volunteering etc.. I love the sticking to the rules bit though..don't know why, just do. Especially if they have been there and done it before etc..
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Bus, I did a mere 32 miles on the bike yesterday and still got comments about what a big ride it was (it was by my standards!), so your 44 is pretty damn good in my book. Not many are machines like Joe and Reg. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SC - that is true - volunteers are the key. Only joshing really, as without these people things don't happen.
    Having been on 2 committees now and seeing the utter lack of thanks you get and the shimmering amount of moans, it really is a thankless job.

    Good to see you back posting Pete. Never feel like there's any "set" way you have to train, race or post! Keeping the posters we've got, who each have their own interesting take on things ( well...i'm borderline on the having anything interesting, but someone needs to facilitate you lot ;) )


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Track today then.

    8x400 at 1500 pace, off 2mins.

    One of these sessions that is both tough and easy in different ways!
    Fairly low quantity and long recoveries, but then hard pace needed.

    1500 pace probably isn't far off mile pace, I've done some miles in and around 5 at best, so I vaguely thought if I can get under 1.15 average, that's probably in and around what's reasonable.

    Set off keeping it "sensible" only to see a 1.12 pop up, albeit a 1.12.88, but then obviously relaxed a bit too much the next one to see a 1.15xx.
    Back to a 1.13xx, and up and down really, with the overall being reps starting in the 1x1.12, 1x.13, 3x1.14, 3x1.15

    Roundings aside, the average will be in the 1.14s, which is probably bang on for right now.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    This is all my personal perspective and I'd talk more in time than distance as the hills can make a huge difference but I'd say about three hours is the minimum for a long ride and four hours plus for a proper long ride. That's just how I'd categorise it though, all my hardest rides are much shorter and I very rarely ride anything more than easy on a long ride. It is amazing how quickly you can progress from 20 miles to 100 miles though, with a bit of consistency.

    I didn't have time for a long ride this weekend though so I had a quick blast on the TT bike. Legs felt a bit crap but then I had a cold last week and was very busy with work and sleep was poor. Hence recent training has been poor. Terrible headache yesterday after working until 3am on Sunday night and busy all Monday so another unscheduled rest day. I am hoping to get back in the flow from today and kicked off with a bit of yoga before breakfast. Plan to get to the pool around lunchtime and then a Zwift race tonight. 

    More importantly though it's going to be a new bike day today!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Nice 400s SG, I am starting to get a yearning to do some faster running and possibly track work. I have a world champs qualifier at Dorney for the sprint triathlon in about 4 weeks so I might look to do a few light but sharp sessions.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 20
    Some real longuns there Reg. No wonder people get such a fitness boost from cycling!

    The short sharp track sessions definitely feel a rude awakening compared to almost all road running. 
    The odd thing is that they never feel "flat out", which I wonder if it is the body's way of making sure you 1)don't rupture, and 2)remember there's more reps to come!
    However, the panting post rep shows you're not mucking about.


    Think I prefer the build to a HM over the end of winter, drop down into maybe a 10m, and then your 5m/10k, and then into 5ks really.
    But this year is obviously not one for any normal build up, so i'm sort of hedging my bets maintaining 60mile weeks, and booting the 5k sessions, as any races in May will only be 5ks.

    "Probably" should dip that mileage from 60 down to 50 to try and get the track stuff quicker, but habit is habit sometimes and perhaps we'll look at that in a couple of months.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Bus I am so sorry to hear about what your wife (and you all) are going through. My thoughts are with you. I’d agree with having had some success with NHS physios. It takes so long to get the appointment that you are half way to recovery anyway, but they have gone big on the rehab exercises which are key in my book.

    That session is very close to your peak, SG, especially when you consider all the differences you mention. Good speed.

    Nice tempo sandwich, SC.

    You seem to be making some running progress, Joe. And still an animal on the bike I notice. Hope it is all going well in your new abode. Great to have new routes available.

    That’s a late night of work, Reg, impressed you are back into a race following it. Good to see your longer runs continuing.

     

    Rounded off last week with a sort of double Sunday: a return to junior parkrun as a starter. I genuinely couldn’t have been happier to see all the kids out there running with smiles on their faces. And I had to put in considerably more effort to keep up with my daughter than 14 months ago! And then for the main course was 13 buggy miles. 62M for the week, with one quality session – continues the recent consistency.

    So, into race week – first time I have thought of that in a long time! Recovery five on the trails yesterday, and a sharpener of a session this morn: 7M total, with 2M at what was probably just above marathon effort (6:45s), then 2 x 2 minutes at half marathon effort (6:30, 6:20).  

    Will keep the rest of the week very light. Have been doing some gentle visualisation to think about different moments in the race, and am also on day six of a Headspace course (ten minutes a day) about sports motivation. Easy going so far, but surprisingly good.


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