Moraghan Training - Stevie G



  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Really missed London marathon all dayers...thats two now! Hopefully the pubs might be open in the Autumn.

    Luckily got my evening run in before the snow shower last night. Bizarre leaving the house this morning with snow on the grass and cars.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7
    Heard a podcast on "Bad boy running" the other day featuring the youngest of the London ever presents.
    62 year, and he's done all 39, and the 1 virtual one.

    Madness being locked into that sort of streak!

    Bit more humble aim for me today, 12x200m off 60secs at 800 pace. The session plan technically allows 60-90sec for recoveries, but have always done 200s at 60 at most.

    One of those across track winds, meaning not even half the track was that lovely still, so I'll add that into the disclaimer wagon with the "very cold" morning to boot :)

    Averaged 35s. Didn't feel unduly powerful to be honest, not quite treacle, but not that fresh.

    Have done 16x200 at 34s and 12x200s at 33s before. But I suppose no benefit in comparing a few years ago in peak shape, in summer racing shape, on still days, to lockdown fit, but not necessarily sharp shape + wind?

    35s are still 4.42 pace, so not exactly hanging about I suppose.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Bloody cold wind at the moment! 

    A whole week off running now. Hamstring seems a little better when sitting for a long time, but not quite there yet, so don't want to risk a run and set it back - always a difficult one to judge!  Cycling is not massively attractive in this weather but I can't be arsed with the turbo! I've been squeezing lots of walks in though and my average pace is now just below 4mph! Not sure marching up hills is as entirely beneficial for my hamstring as I'm pretending to myself though!

  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭

    Jools - I hadn’t picked up on the fact you had run a 5M fartlek before last week’s 20M. Big day. And then a 24M and now a speedy 20M. In all seriousness, I think we could be quite close at Shepperdine, which would be brilliant. What did you put as your estimated opening 5M time? Think I put 34 minutes. And good effort by your daughter!

    I like how you drive to different runs, SG. Really good to make the most of a wider range of routes. I was sceptical about Ben Parkes videos at first. But he comes across as a genuinely good bloke and I do like the content. Not a regular viewer, but if it flashes up on YouTube whilst I have my lunch at work I will tune in. I note RunThrough are doing a series of race distances at Cheltenham Racecourse in June. Fancy a trip?

    Sounds a rapid 5M, SC. Good work!

    That is a lot of climbing over that distance, Reg. Let me know if you do Gloucester. Remember Steve Way winning there one year. And then doing a 4M tempo when he got home that afternoon 😆. 

    Hard luck, Bus. Hope there is progress soon. Time for beers on the turbo again?

    Lots of band exercises to strengthen the tub post/med. Absurdly, it has made my legs really quite stiff and fatigued. How was I ever able to squat well over 100kg?! 

    Easy few days to close last week and open this, with the only exception being a 10M buggy on Monday including some single arm strides. 

    Longest long run of the (very compressed) campaign this morning. Out just after 5am for 60 minutes easy (about 7:50 pace), joined by a friend for the first 30 minutes, then 4 x 20 mins at MP effort with 10 mins easy. 

    First two effort were probably around 6:50-55 pace, with the latter two at around 7:05 then 7:15. The final set in particular did include some climbing. Easy sections were about 7:25 pace. 

    An enjoyable run, and a lot of satisfaction from running that far. Pos-tib fatigued but not hurting. Had a randomly hurting left knee cap after a couple of hours which I thought could result in a long walk home, but seemed to clear off. A good lesson in sticking with it in hard times. 24.3M at 7:26 average. Just noted there was 688ft of ascent, so not flat, I suppose. 

    So I reckon this puts me in just over 3-hour range. Sub-3 is possible, and I guess a lot will be determined by what degree of freshening up a taper and some magic shoes can give. I had kind of thought that sub-3 would be a given, having run it maybe seven times before. But that certainly won’t be the case. Excited for the challenge, although currently knackered!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I can honestly picture you Bus, thundering up a hill, trying to fool yourself mumbling something like "it's a walk innit, walking is fine" :D 

    SQ - Cheltenham's 70miles, so a decent but not out of the question trip, so I wouldn't rule it out.  Depends what stuff is on then.

    Sounds like a satisfying one for you. 5am is asking a lot, even for my consistency week in week out. How do you manage fuelling etc? Especially with the diabetes?
    No lose at Shepperton. If it goes well - superb, if it's just solid, or hard late on, all a good development from where you were a few months back.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    SQ, just watching another Ben P vid, a Dorney half.  it's the event videos where he's filming on the go that I like. Especially events I've been to.

    Less interested in nutrition, general jabber or those sort of content vids.

    A guy fairly locally called something like Baze187 had tonnes on his channel. Hope he gets back to doing them, as he does a great mix of the big races, the local stuff, and wacky ones. Is good viewing the races you've probably done or considered doing yourself.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I found that Ben Parkes was a bit like running's answer to Jamie Oliver, bit annoying but I watched a few of them a while back before he got injured or has some issue.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7
    I bet the casually chatting into a camera in races must cheese some people off behind him.
    A great way to feel mediocre :D 

    Heck of a runner though. Not many people can combine 15min 5ks, with 2.25 marathons, with 100mile ultras!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    A guy I work with is a big fan of Ben P. Not yet watched any of his videos (kind of felt the JO vibe Reg :smiley:) Respect to him for his times and range SG mind.

    Quality long run that SQ! Whilst no means a given, it's a pretty good indicator of s sub-3 if things go to plan on the day. Beers on the turbo is more a dark winter night pastime I think :smiley:

    Squeezed in a hilly, but absolutely freezing bike ride tonight of 18M. Even wrapped up and working hard my toes and fingers were completely numb by the end!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Decent reps SG.
    Agree about that wind Bus. Bitingly cold particularly on the bike.
    4.7M slow, hilly miles Monday & 8.8M easy but hilly again yesterday. Also did 55 minutes on the bike which was more than enough.
    As SQ alluded I went long again today. I set off to do 20 with 4 sets of [email protected]/1M float. Chose the flat cycle route between Barnstaple & Bideford. I wanted to progress the pace on the 3M efforts & use them to determine my MP. 2.5M wu & I realised the “moderate breeze” was going to make this a good test. Legs took a little while to warm-up so average pace was 8:22. I pushed into the wind on the auto-lap’s cue aiming for 7:10 & averaged 7:07. Float [email protected]:37 then hit the 2nd effort. Wind was now across me & moved behind me as the effort progressed. Only awkward bit was a road crossing which required a zigzag either side & of course a check. Aim had been between 7 & 7:05 so very happy with 6:56. Float [email protected]:39 which included the turn around. Knew it was going to be tough improving on the previous pace given I’d gone faster & I was now headed into the wind again. Effort climbed & managed to hold 6:57 pace which would’ve been within target pace range. [email protected]:42 & my legs were beginning to protest but I knew I’d have the wind in my favour for the final effort. Pushed hard & began the mental games to maintain pace. Final 3M were 6:52/6:56/6:38 😎 That final mile nearly destroyed me but I held on to complete the final float [email protected]:34 before jogging the last 1.5M home at 8:12.
    All in [email protected]:22 & I reckon my MP to be 7:00 so that’s the plan for Shepperdine.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Quality long run that Jools, I have missed these long reports in the absence of marathon build ups. Strange how few on here in recent years have attempted a marathon thinking about it.

    No run for me yesterday, I jumped on the indoor bike where the only breeze was one created by my fan. Intention was a recovery ride but I signed up to a Zwift Tour group ride of 550 people to get a good draft. Ended up pushing to the front and then pretty much engaging race mode! Recovery ride became just over an hour at 4.6 w/kg.

    I've now done 16 Yoga sessions in 3 1/2 weeks and today is the first time where I actually started to feel some adaption, in that I was able to stay in the poses without falling over!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    The more I read about the slogs of marathon training, the less I'd want to do one :D 
    I could imagine doing that sort of distance or say a 50k doddling around on some borderline interesting route - although I dare say all scenery looks the same when you're knackered, but not the pushing for time long length race like the marathon!

    Great runs Jools and SQ though, and I can tell Reggie is getting that massive hankering to get involved.

    ps does anyone else's text book look smaller/different on this site recently? The text of the posted message looks the same, so can't be a settings thing as such?
    Oh well.

    9 for me today. One of those classic morning runs, a bit weary feeling, especially first couple of miles, but still fairly comfy at 7.20 pace even with the steep bank climb midway.

    Will weigh up what to do tomorrow. Probs won't do a track sesh. That'll probably feel like overkill with the saturday race, then 3 runs between 9-13, plus reps in the week after. Will weigh up strides/a couple of segs/some min on min off lighter stuff.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Yes I have the font change thing. 

    For someone with such consistency and quite high mileage SG, I do find your aversion to the marathon slightly at odds with the amount of running you do. Surely you could knockout a sub 3 any weekend so presumably it's a mental thing? The hankering must be with you too and like Strava segments would one marathon open the floodgates!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I suppose I haven't totally seen off that Wycombe 2015 experience, as I've only done 2 halfs in what will be 6 years since, by the summer!

    Similarly, I've never once finished a long run of 13-15 and thought, "I fancied more" there. The idea of solo 20s fills me with a bit of dread to be honest, and you're getting into proper depletion zones.

    The only small thing I wonder about is the super power I see some runners get from marathon training. But I wonder if that is simply them doing more mileage as a whole, which I probably wouldn't get as much benefit from. And also, I've seen a lot of runners going well, do a marathon and crock themselves.

    To be honest I like the idea of lots of shorter races rather than a couple of monster ones a year.

    Also, if I went and did say a loosener marathon and put in say 3.15, I'd never be able to get away with just finishing with that. I'd get sucked back in and then it'd all begin like you say!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SG - you could make the coss over easily given your 60+ mpw regularly.......biggest thing required is a memtal change to slow down some of your running.......your 15m ~7mm is tough so you dont fancy going further (~ 1min slower that hmp), 18 or 20m av 8mm is about time on feet and not effort.......likewise the folks getting injured are trying to smash club sessions around marathons and not slowing down and focussing on strength........horses for courses......and you have to want to do it...... theres a series of 5k races near me every summer that folks travel for, i could do the approx 1m jog to the start as a w/u, but dont take part as it doesn't interest me in the slightest. Its whatever gets you motivated to compete, and we're all different.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Yep, that last line is 100% bang on.

    There's phases in every runner's existence too. Like I used to like coming high up the field in my early days, so picked some real bootleg races at times. Then it was the serious improvement coached spell - only the big fast races etc. Then it was a while post 2015 easing back into seeing if I could race and as before.

    These days I think I just like turning out fairly frequently, and flexibly, as often as is sensible, and just seeing different events, and the whole race life cycle.

    The race entry - the anticipation, the adrenaline/doubts/regrets/disclaimers, and then that marvelous feeling over the line and what I can only imagine is like you booze people experience, the high of the post race hyped up chats, and that gentle satisfaction that all the training is worthwhile/I can still do it, and the race report, and as Jools will appreciate, the anorak logging on spreadsheets/folders and the medal hanging :D 

    Still obviously want to do "fast" times relatively speaking, at the bigger events, and half marathon always feels the real distance to conquer, but there's  joy just in turning out too.
    Also increasingly open to wackier stuff, team relays etc. Just not marathons ;)  Unless it's a fun relaxed pish about one, that's basically a jog about in the wilds.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    SG - It is a good laugh, definitely plan a foreign one with club mates, etc. It's also a nice way to end the marathon training, especially as most have the Sunday night after to get on the beers! Obviously Berlin, but there's loads of others, Frankfurt very popular too. The idea of running around Abingdon country lanes would fill me with dread...

    Great long runs Jools and SQ - impressive. Hope the Hammy is OK Bus.

    'Stag Trophy' last night, 4k blast of 3 laps round town centre. Thought i'd give the Adios another blast. Happy with the 13.09 - as my PB is 12.45 and that was when I was in 15.45 ish pace for 5k. I think the first lap was possibly the fastest I have done. So possibly heading in the right direction....

    Back at the track tonight...finally...
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Yeah I noticed the font change when writing SG
    Missed out on this local 5K series which started with a bang yesterday
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8
    Took me a min or two to work out what they'd done there Jools.

    Seems reasonable to have 2 different races, but as everyone's distanced anyway, a little bit of a pointless distinction?

    But having decided to technically split into 2, why then combine all into 1 set of results?  It's not even to do with categories, as those look to be split on their separate race.

    But what I meant to lead with, was that's a superb standard, 61 runners under 17mins, when only 360 are at the event!

    I have a couple of loose connections to Hereford, so wouldn't mind getting there for a race one day. Ideally combined with watching Hereford FC. Saw one game there in August 95, and always meant to get back for another game.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    For a forum that seems to have no admins they do mess about with things! This Time New Roman font when typing your post is just weird!

    SG, the problem is, there will (almost) inevitably come a point where you come to your own conclusion conclusion that you have to do a marathon  - either out of curiosity or just to shut everyone else up! You are at the perfect age and certainly with enough miles in the bank, to follow a bog-standard sub 3 plan, with minimum extra effort to what you do now week in, week out, albeit with half a dozen runs building to 20-22M. In reality, with your running pedigree you could most likely cruise a sub 3 if it all went OK on the day.  Those long training runs can seem a nightmare when you've not done them before, but they are actually pretty easy to build up to if you keep the pace sensible and, in effect, would be maybe an extra hour a week for you to get that rather annoying monkey off your back - but only if you want to of course :smile:

    Jools - I've given up being astonished by your shear work rate!

    Bored with walking now!
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    Jooligan said:
    Yeah I noticed the font change when writing SG
    Missed out on this local 5K series which started with a bang yesterday
    Gutted I hadn’t seen this beforehand. Incredible results. Must have been a lightening fast course and evening looking at the overall results, but even more so those that I have been close to in previous races. 
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    SG - valid point that you have probably done the mileage that lots of marathoners go to, and so have perhaps tapped into those gains. But a marathon is a genuinely different beast to shorter forms of running. Not better or worse, harder or easier. But definitely something that is well worth experiencing for someone who loves running. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    It's funny, people keep using this "monkey on back" expression, but I can't say I've ever thought, "Ooh i'm not a runner until i've dribbled a marathon out". Strange people think this about a marathon, yet not say, an ultra etc.

    SQ, i've experienced the misery the distance can cause, so I'm not missing out don't worry :D 

    We had this "Chairman's challenge" at Marlow every year, but it was dying a miserable death near the end of my time there. So we just about got one going, but ended up with 2 of us planning to run out 11miles out down the river and then back. A couple of others joined midway somewhere.

    But we ended up utterly mashing the "simple" out and back up, and went 13 out and back, and I made sure I did the 0.2miles round a field to finish.
    I loosely remember it as being 3.30 of running out of 4hours. Realllly hot day, and we stopped for ice creams etc.

    I remember being utterly empty shelled after that one.

    A couple of other 20milers since and 18/19 when I've turdburgled the route up, but I can't say any of them were marvelarse. :)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9
    Completely freestyled session today then.

    Had some segs in mind, but wanted to do a little bit of hill repping too. Luckily there was a hidden seg on a hill very close to the other segs, so served a good purpose.

    I earmarked 3 segs, all requiring very similar paces, of 5.08 - 5.12 between 300-800m. All very doable on a track of course, but one was offroad with a slight gradient, and the 1/4m and 1/2m are around a loop that loves to tickle the wind up a gear.

    In the end I settled for drilling the 300m offroad one, the 1/4mile loop (2 goes), and then went and did some of these short hill reps. 0.8-0.10miles. The half mile one for the same pace as the 1/4miler would probably be too much effort today.

    Two hills about 100metres between each other, so did 3 on the steeper one, and 6 on the other one that had a kinder breakdown, albeit still the same total elevation.  This second hill had the - a moderate 6.30 pace, although I'd jogged it the other week and it felt tough, but that was post a 5x1km sesh, so wasn't quite sure whether it was doable, comfortable, or what have we.

    6miles all in.

    Almost rucked it all up by accidentally setting the watch going for a mile when I was driving (!), and despite making sure I didn't save the run until I loaded it, strava popped up a message saying my GPS had clearly gone wrong but i had the "chance" to sort it.

    I can't imagine anyone reported it in those few seconds, so it's good strava seem to have some sort of built in checker now?

    Anyway, I cropped the 1mile drive off, and pleased to see I've acquired the 3 segs I took on.

    I've had a little running battle on this loop with some guy with an unusual name that I can't decide if it's public school, or Lord of the Rings style, and he seems to be some sort of casual triathlete rather than a runner.

    I expect he'll have another go at taking this 1/4 loop back. I've got it at 1.12 400m pace, when he'd taken it as 1.16, but I suspect he'd gone out to take the 1/2m one and hadn't realised there was a shorter one in fairness.

    Lost another one over in Slough to a guy who was putting in 1830-19min 5ks pre lockdown, but has now morphed into a guy doing 1730 5ks solo, and putting in 4.10 seg sprints. Over 40 too, so not like he's some track kid.
    (Lost as in I joint held it with 2 others, and don't think I held i first in i get the message of losing it, but never properly held it - the worst of all worlds :) )

    4miles later in the woods I expect, and then glad to have a day off to be honest.
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    Nice to have a run like that now and again then SG! 

    Jools - Good results there, had a look at a couple of the vets, one of them taking 40 secs off his PB, like everyone seems to do these days. Fast race, decent conditions and .....

    Progress continuing last night at the track, 8 x 1k off 80 secs. 2 at 3.14, last one 3.09, one 3.11 and the rest 3.13's. Getting there now.
  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    Any suggestions for a 10k course nearish to Wycombe? The young guys in the office have a STava group and this weekend it is a mile flat out on Saturday and 1k on Sunday. I'll do the mile on the track but fancy a road or at least path 10k.

    Ideally, it would have a gentle downhill in it: there is a good section from near Watlington down via Pishill, Stonor and Assendon to Henley but that is almost a straight line and so 10k back.  

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Are they all doing their miles on the track too? Presume they run enough to not take it off the split rather than full distance?

    For a second wondered why you needed a 10k route to do a 1k Sunday, but clearly a missing 0!

    Dorney is shut until October, so that's not any option, maybe you could stretch to just under 4 laps of Shepherds Lane in Hurley. Probably not the best with those laps, and can be windy! Though you could mix in laps of the caravan park and up the high street, to probably limit it to 2 laps?
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9
    Certainly sound tidy there Simon.

    When I've done 8x1km it's usually been some sort of peaking session for 10k.
    Do you view that session as a 10k pace job, or is it more a very long 5k intensity?
    Could you hold 3.13s for a 10k race?
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Talking of quick, did anyone see Dean, now M48 I think (!), formerly of this thread, ran 15:33 on Monday on the roads? Not that he will be happy as he was beaten by a M50, plus  fellow M45 Mick Hill ran 14:44 in the Podium B race behind Beth Potter. Looks like Dean is in pretty good shape though. Wonder what pace he is running km reps at!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9
    I think I remember the name, pretty fast.

    Talking about pretty fast, one of my segs from the morning lasted...until this evening!

    The kid took the 400m residential loop down from my 1.12 to 1.08.
    Apologising to me in the title of the run!

    Wished him well and said I think i'm done as taking that down would be a ruining effort. Got to learnt when to call it a day on some segs!

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