Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Bad one Bus. That hamstring is really becoming a ...(avoids pain in the ass gag) real hassle now ain't it.

    I got a decent 6 off, took a little longer to get tight today, with just the last mile a bit untoward.

    I've dug the foam roller out and am giving the quads a good working over, as I was getting a bit of tightness there PRE Endure anyway, and also giving the ITB type area a going over. No idea if that actually does anything, but I think I can feel the quad bit is doing something decent.

    Will keep up more traditional stretches too, and hopefully between the two it gets back to usual.
  • Sorequads said:

    That’s a ball ache, PMJ (and SG). No doubt you’ll find a route that works for you. A Strength Running ITB video helped me, as well as some painful massage then my glutes on a hockey ball. 


    I am always unsure about the ITB. I suspect the issue is that my back is bad and when that is tight it just pulls at the top end of the ITB so the whole thing is tight and pushes my knee to the side. If that is so, nothing on the ITB band itself will help and I need to work higher up to release whatever is clenching it. 


    SG: ASL above sea level
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    That's half the game isn't it Phil...working out where the actual issue in the chain is, as where it shows itself isn't always the place.

    At Endure my back went a bit tight in between the first few laps. 
    So most likely targeting the back, quads and throw in glutes will no doubt sort it all out.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    ps SC - obvs Dachs would be well under 16.45....
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    SG: Quads & hip flexors both lead to tight back
    Can’t believe you had to dig out the foam roller. I use it daily when home.
    My left quad is incredibly tender after Saturday & left glute is very sore too. Struggling to put much pressure on either but every little helps. L ITB has been tight for months tbh. 
    Good going PMJ. I definitely want to have another crack in better visibility & now I’ve a bit more local knowledge. It was the 1st time on 90% of the route for all of us!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    With some of your epic slogs up mountains, seemingly daily, I'm surprised you can even get out of bed some days Jools :D 

    I'm not certain on foam rollers, as I've long held the view that they don't get enough purchase on the "meaty" areas like hamstring and ass, but they feel too "red raw" on the skinnier areas like quads, ITB etc.

    However, I'm giving the quads a decent going over on it at the moment, on top of the usual stretches, and fingers crossed it's moving on a bit, and seeing this all out.


    ps I noticed Rose Inn are doing just a single 4miler this summer.
    Doesn't seem to be on po10 though, and is billed as "slightly different" course, but still 2 laps making it 4miles.
    Know much about the change/set up? I know you brought this race up before.
  • SorequadsSorequads ✭✭✭
    edited August 2021
    Fast qualification required for that 5k, SC.

    Feel for you, Bus. 

    Had been thinking of mentioning rolling, SG. I think there is greater evidence for rolling your glute that the ITB itself. 

    Agreed entirely, PMJ. Not convinced the band itself benefits from focus. Glute release and strengthening the hips best?


    Another BAC track session today. 3.5M jog there and back. Main set of 10 x 1200 (converted from 10 x 5 mins), 200 jogs and 400 after the fifth. Marathon pace and a slight progression each time to tempo. 

    5:05, 5:05, 4:55, 4:56, 4:54 / 4:48, 4:45, 4:44, 4:44, 4:41

    Great session and really pleased with the progression. A controlled session, that never quite hit 6m/m, but certainly working by the end. Enjoying the precision that track allows. And also the feeling of getting fit!

    All in, 16.4M at 6:46s, although this is with some GPS flattery. Adios again. Concrete calves due tomorrow. 

    Lovely to see a dad coaching his two children for sprinting and hurdles. Such a positive and friendly influence to them. 

  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭
    edited August 2021
    SQ, SG - Thought i'd chuck the 5k in anyway. I'll be one of the slowest too, trying to get to 16.15 ish with my old trainers before I consider a clown shoe!

    With these events somehow some slower runners get in...seem to anyway.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    There's plenty of advice out there saying not to foam roll the ITB.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Good session that SQ.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Rolling the quad seems to feel like it should be doing something.
    Rolling the ITB not so much, so i'll probably stick to the quad to be honest, supplemented with stretching on all the bits round it.

    6 & 4 today, which is classic runner isn't it. Fine to run 10miles, but as it's not "perfect" you give it too much thought :)
  • Pointless rolling the ITB anyway, it's not muscle is it...
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Indian knot sorted my ITB issues out - was a big issue, waited for it to ease a bit, did these and a few other ITB specific stretches then just these and that bend from the hip jobby looking like a ballerina a 3 times a week ever since and its no longer been an issue - but I am only a statistical sample of one of course :smiley:

    That one, and controlled squats to keep the knee cap aligned every time it plays up, have kept me going for the past 15 years (oh, and the zillion different exercises for back issues of course!).

    Just need to find the same minimal effort miracle for this hamstring shite now and I'll be good to go :smile:

     


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    I've never actually done that exact variation of that Bus. The hands behind you part. The rest is a variation of a glute stretch I do most days.
    However, I'll try it that way as new impetus always helps.

    8miler today. Had a grassy hilly, some woods and a down, for the full variety.

    6miles felt the tightest, but then it sort of eased back a little. Similar to Sunday's 10, where the end bit was looser than a certain peak.
    It's not 100% but it's not too bad.
    Single today, so will press on. May try something a little livelier, even if just strides on Friday, but no rush.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited August 2021
    Jools: Amazing effort on the Welsh mountains and vivid pictures to illustrate the terrain. Not only does it look more like mountaineering than running (as SG said), but without all the safety stuff you associate with real climbing. Would scare the s..t out of me that's for sure!

    SQ good sessions you are turning out with a real mix of pace and endurance. Must serve you well. 

    Reg, Bus, PMJ and SG: Hope all your niggles (or worse in some cases) improve rapidly.

    Bus: Must be particularly annoying for you as you keep getting nearly right again only to then face repeated setbacks. Maybe time to push the boat out and get some proper physio.

    Reg; I think going flat out in a track session is high risk for injury if you are not used to them, especially hamstrings and calves. Its done for me a few times and one reason I stopped the track stuff.

    SG: you still seem to be running a lot and at a decent pace, so hopefully just a minor niggle for you caused by your Endure epic performance.

    Pretty busy time for me in the week I entered v60 territory which makes me feel ancient. Just coincidence but was the week of the end of both the Battersea 5k series (Sri Chinmoy) and the Yateley 10k one. Also did my club's pairs relay (5*1k each) and a hard parkrun on Saturday so that's 4 race pace runs in a week, with zero other running apart from the w/u's for the various races.

    Managed 18'55 in the parkrun, nobly assisted and paced by flat cap Joe of this forum, who was warming up for a full Iron Man in Estonia this weekend. Great to catch up with Joe again and I remain in awe of his tri feats and cycling speed (Reg too in that regard).

    Monday was the target race of the lot for me as 1st as a v60; wanted to get a sub 19, as near as possible to 18'30, to make the most of the fast course and good conditions. All went pretty well and 18'36 the result. Still only 87th out of just over 200 as the standard was higher than I've ever known it. Anyone running15'30 would not have even got in the medal places (top 7) and a 54 year old ran 16'25. My time not good enough for 1st v60 either.

    Last of the events was Yateley 10k (race 3 of the series) last night for which I was running as a v50 again, as that's what I was for the first 2 and you stay the same Cat. Still 23 degrees last night but not as hot as the previous one. Felt knackered even before the start and so set off at a much more sensible pace than in race 2. Through the predominantly uphill first 3k in just under 12 which was pretty much the plan; fast course from 3-7k and made some time up then to get to that point about 27 mins or a tad over. From then its mostly uphill again and couldn't quite keep the 4 min k's I was aiming for, but still much better finish that race 2 and ended with 39'24. Happy with that and hopeful I could get sub 39 on a flatter course without all the 5k action in the week beforehand. Got 2nd Series v50 prize (though only 4th v50 last night) which was a pleasing way to bow out of that Cat.

    Glad to get through the crazy schedule of last week and have a break from racing for a few weeks now and will just jog Saturday's parkrun. Need consolidate a bit and be careful not to overdo the fast stuff.

    Other target for me was working my way through club records for the new Cat. The 5k one I think I've pretty much nailed with that 18'36 (was previously19'15) and took the 10k one with my 39'24. That one is much close though as there is another guy from my club in the Cat who ran 40'01 last night (a pb for him which is madness at his age :o). He is doing another 10k at the flat Run Through Kempton course on Saturday so my record may only last 3 days!


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Phew Pete - made me tired just reading that lot! I know a fair few 20 year old "proper" runners who are going to struggle with the times you are now churning out as a V60, so not only good work but gives me some hope in a few years!

    Not convinced a physio is going to help with this one - possibly could, who knows, almost certainly would give me advice I don't want to take! Besides, there's just too much going on currently to be able to put myself in someone's hands for now and add another complication into the mix.  Hamstrings are notorious for coming back so, its not entirely unexpected - just a bit of a drag!

    Hey ho - plenty of walking this week, including tonight, which was bizarrely OK, in a very masochistic kind of way just wandering about in the thick drizzle!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Good body of work there Pete, and to think recently you didn't think you had anything to contribute!
    I (luckily!) was right that, once the races came back you posting mojo would return :)

    Bus, this is deffo your "real life" period, but like you say with the hamstring, things can change, so just need that first magical race back. Was Wokingham Feb 2020 your last one?

    With a potential club turn out next Thursday, I needed to test a bit of faster work, so I fancied something like a starter threshold session.

    Something like 5x3mins off 90secs, done on the park next to me, so a lot of it on grass, and the rest on paths.


    In the end I put a 6th rep in, and they pretty much came out dead on 6min miling throughout.
    Odd reps were about 90% grass, 10% path, and even reps 70% path, 30% grass?

    Despite rain, the grass wasn't at all boggy, and the wind was fairly mild, so it felt a decent session.
    Not "that" hard, but certainly not easy, as it needed some panting in the recoveries, and late on the stomach was threatening some action :)

    Am sticking to the foam rolling the quads every day, and a few assorted stretches on quads, hamstring, and the 2 variations on the glutes - the one Bus mentioned, and another one I do.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Yep.  Next one will be Coombe Hill race on 22nd with any luck!
  • Happy birthday, Pete. Have given you kudos last week for V50 performances, but levels of respect have gone up even further!

    Quite enjoy a drizzly run, Bus. 

    6 x 3 mins classic session, SG. Sounds like you are returning nicely. 


    An afternoon at the cricket planned today. As I’m not great at sitting down for prolonged periods, running there seemed the best option. Cheltenham - Worcester, 20.5M at 7:07 average. 

    A one way run is always at the mercy of the wind and did well for the first half with a nice tailwind. This then turned when I did, but not to my favour. So a tough 3 x 3M at marathon effort into the headwinds. 

    Good workout and nice to slot a third 20. Will seek to progress to 22 soon. 

    Also booked some accom for London. Only keen for refundable options!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    That's a cracking, confidence building long run that SQ!

    I like a run in the drizzle too - not so keen on a walk though :smile:  
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2021
    20milers always seem a strong piece of work to me, let alone with effort in there, so good work SQ.
    It's good we seem to be properly in the "stuff is back on" phase now, and booking stuff is worth doing again.

    I'd seen there's a new combo of races in Marlow. A 10k and a 10m.

    They both share a lot of the Winter Hill 10mile route I often do, just the reverse direction, and instead of the more gradual climb to the peak of Winter Hill, features a staggering steep 0.25mile over about 170feet. That's pro rata the exact same as the murder mile!

    As I was still testing binning this ITB thing off, I thought i'd head over there, aim for a 10miler, and also explore this bit of the route.

    Basically you start at Gossmore park, do a bit of the Marlow 5 route, through a couple of footpaths, past the church, over the bridge, and on the route past the Longridge centre, along Quarry Wood road instead of taking the left parallel with the River, you go straight into the Woods.
    It didn't start as steep as I thought, but is soon at 14% fare and finishes with a greasy bank, or awkward steps. It's one of those walk quicker than run jobs near the peak.

    But then you're at the top! And then do about 1/3 of the elevation down over a longer distance and emerge at the same point the more traditional route takes you.

    Small short climb, and then down the long actual Winter Hill down, with a left towards the Bourne End bridge, and 1.5miles or so back down the Thames to Gossmore park.

    Looking at the map, the correct croute is a diagonal across the field towards the Bridge, rather than my straight on, and to the footpath past the Bounty pub.
    Makes sense not to have a race going down that narrow footpath!

    (The 10miler has a 4mile extra messing about in woods, with some more silly ups and downs)

    The last bit down the Thames is a bit of a slog, windy, grassy, gates to open.
    Add in 2.4miles before and after, and a nice 11miler, in the high 7.30s.


    Good news - didn't feel the ITB at all really.
    Could feel the quads a little, and the left calf about 10.5miles in, but good news.

    Therefore, it seems pretty likely the quad tightness, which was there pre Endure, was what was bringing out the ITB stuff after the 30miles of that!

    5x1km pair relays Thursday, and then if all good still, see what races are knocking about.


    Jools, if you're about, that 4mile Rose Inn worth it?
  • The leg is getting a bit better but I'm trying to give it a bit longer before I go back to running so I went to parkrun and walked it. Came out at about 39.5 minutes for 5k at a brisk walk. That is a shade inside 13 minutes a mile. 

    That puts an interesting perspective on a lot of these ultras, especially backyard ultras, where the aim is to complete 100 miles in 24 hours but with an even effort over the 24 hours, so 4.167 miles each and every hour. At that pace, it is 53 minutes per lap. Clearly, the pace is not an issue at all. I don't really see how you can do anything much other than knock out 24 sessions pretty much in a row. If you run at a decent pace it is going to take half an hour and that means you could squeeze in an hour between reps if you time it well but that is not anything useful so you may as well take it easy and have a short rest rather than gun it and have a longer rest.

    And, yes, I was faster than a lot of "runners". 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    The thing is Phil, 12.5-13min is a very brisk walk indeed. You won't be keeping that up for hours.
    So you start to need to jog a little.
    And then if you're jogging a bit you'll probably need to stop a bit. Then a bit longer etc, and thus be glad of longer breaks where you can.

    It's quite an intriguing game of tactics.
    Dashers have their own version at the end of August. Apparently...as nothing has gone out yet and time is rolling on!!

    As it'd be 3 laps of the park for 1 leg, being bored spitless is a very real concern.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    6&4 for me today.

    Was surprised that the left glute had gone very tight, about a mile in. I even stopped for 20secs to try a stretch, realised that ached more, so carried on!
    Not "too" bad, but not great, especially after the ITB thing disappeared totally.

    Will do all manner of stretches and icing to see if I can bin this off as quickly.

    Won't bother with the club sesh of 6x4min hills tomorrow! Nothing to be gained 2 days before a relay...and hopefully ok for that!
  • Stevie G said:
    The thing is Phil, 12.5-13min is a very brisk walk indeed. You won't be keeping that up for hours.
    So you start to need to jog a little.
    And then if you're jogging a bit you'll probably need to stop a bit. Then a bit longer etc, and thus be glad of longer breaks where you can.

    It's quite an intriguing game of tactics.
    Dashers have their own version at the end of August. Apparently...as nothing has gone out yet and time is rolling on!!

    As it'd be 3 laps of the park for 1 leg, being bored spitless is a very real concern.
    I'd counter that is not a very brisk walk. It was well under my maximum when I'm pushing it. It is hard to find a good reference but a lot say 5 mph, 12 minute as mile, is a fast walk. 
  • Have you seen the Marlow 10? 10 miles or 10k

    https://www.racinglinerunning.co.uk/marlow-10

    Really steep climb from Longridge up the footpath to the top of Winter Hill. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    You must walk a lot faster than me then Philip!  I've been walking a lot recently, and my maximum walking speed is around 15 min mile pace, and that is pushing it - I could probably keep that up for an hour or two on the flat, but definitely not for 24 hours!

    Garmin came up trumps - when I told them the old watch had overheated, they sent me out a replacement refurbed job! I had to ay a deposit, which will be refunded when they get the burnt out one, and it took a week to sort out, but pretty good service I'd say and it just happened to coincide with a week of very little running!

    Ten miles yesterday was OK on the hamstring, though the last hill brought the niggle back a bit.
    A day off today, and walked from Sonning to Reading, just for something to do. Nice, sunny walk there, but the whole hour back to Sonning was in torrential rain, so heavy that my coat just gave up toward the end and I got soaked through to the skin almost everywhere!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2021
    I always suspected you just monstered in, posted your stuff without any attempt to read back Phil...but asking about the Marlow 10k/10m about 5 posts after I'd done a massive summary of it is quite special :D 

    I have visions of you doing some odd race-walk thing, or jogging along insisting you're still walking to anyone around.
    15min miling isn't exactly slow walking, but 12min miling is exceptionally fast!
    You could be a contender on the walking scene!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Bus, 10miles without much issue is promising.
    Just hope that like me you don't suddenly find some other muscle has turned to stone for your next run :)
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Sort of - 14M without much issue last week, then 2 days later it packs in again!  Really odd one this, as there is no clear pattern of when it will flare up or not, though a combination of lots of sitting at the PC with back to back hills seems to be do it....

    Hey ho - just lucky I'm not in my prime and chasing PBs I guess!
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