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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Its ok Bus. The OP on that thread has just thrown her toys out of her pram big time.
Training then, hmm!
I've sort of reverted to a rather lop-sided cross training pattern.
Training was: One run per day.
Training now: (Run, bike). (Bike, bike). (Run, bike.) So twice a day training but only a run every other day.
It's a bit ironic that my running has become more effective since I've stopped running so much in training.
Seb Coe's father said that runners will just run. Running athletes need to train in a way that makes them a better athlete, of which running is just one aspect. There are other ways.
I think he meant weights.
I'll be back to 'only running' as soon as.
🙂
i'll hot foot it over there shortly...i wonder if the poster is the same one I saw at the Victory 10k with a full belt of drinks! A September, slightly cold 10k!
Good double completed today, the 4 with bus as a warm up, and then 6x1k tonight.
A new "cv" pace, which I'm told is 8secs slower than 10k pace being the objective. (not VC as i'd incorrectly mentioned to Bus earlier...that he reckoned was "very comfortable pace"
)
I roughly calculated that 1.24s would be around the pace, so perhaps 3.30 a 1k.
Came out 3.31, 3.27,3.28, 3.25,3.26,3.27
On a dark track it wasn't 100% easy to properly time the 60secs recovery (i don't use any fiddly clever stuff on there, just 2 clicks!), so I realise now rep 2 and 3 were a bit over the 60, but I'm sure that makes little difference, as I found that the later reps were faster anyway.
At a not pushing the pace vibe, felt quite nice.
edit, couldn't resist a little post on that thread. Woman asks for fuelling advice, gets it, then says she knows best. Genius. And is planning on walk/running it as she has a niggle. A niggle and she's running a marathon. That'll end well
Nice session, what's this CV pace about, a go-between 10k and 10 mile pace?
My first session in 5 weeks, with a full on cold tonight. 8 x 3mins (90 seconds) Average pace was 5:33 which based on my 10k PB is spot on 5K pace. Which sounds great but I didn;t feel it at any point and only got through via sheer stubbornness. I'm off to bed to die quietly...
not entirely sure. But my 10k pace zone is on paper 5.32-5.35, and tonight came out at 5.34 average...so in fairness came out in 10k range and not cv whatever it is anyway!
Nice little 3min bursts Stevie. 2 1/4 laps per rep approximately?
Similar run to SG and Stevie See tonight, First faster session for 4 weeks also I think, 5 x 4mins with 2mins recovery. all about 5:25min/mile pace. SG Are you sure your pace wasnt supposed to be 8 secs/mile faster than 10k pace? I found it very tough,it also rained hard. just didnt have the legs after Sunday. Did 7mile recovery run yesterday and that was fairly painful.
3:47 is silly fast Dean, are you doing speedwork at the moment? Running Saturday in Birmingham?
Big run today Bus, good job on a weekday!
Ric - Glad its working for you, I think some cycle helped my running last year, did 1000miles in afew months and it seems to strengthen weak areas, aswell as the aerobic effort, I'll be cycling again this year, come some good weather.
I always wondered about the Adidas XT4'S Dachs, let us know how you get on.
I find the Salamon speedcross 3's are ultra comfortable, and when they're new they have very good grip, mine have started to wear down abit now from afew too many road miles & hard packed trail runs. Ill have to buy some more eventually, they are my shoe of choice. The La sportiva has no cushioning & is no good in deep mud. my local off road road is now like an XC course and they just slip everywhere.
Anyway, not got much time to post this week...
Thanks Seb - one of the advantages of working at home occasionally!
Will have to take a look at that thread again then!
Some very good sessions from you three tonight. I quite like the idea of doing reps based on time rather than distance, but have never actually done it! Take it easy with that cold though Stevie - a tough sesion like that could just send you over the edge. Sometimes better to fight another day....
Had some good ones for what VC meant, but not so many for CV SG!
I've entered the Trafford 10km early March and I'm looking at now consciously putting a tempo run in every weekend. That'll be on top of doing the track session on Thursday and the intervals with my club on Tuesdays. Tonight's session was all a mixture of efforts ranging from a minute up to 5 minutes. They are always on the same loop of road which has two hills on so its really a tough effort.
All my other days of running are run quite easy. Sunday will be a long run.
What I'd like to know is, should my training not peak nearer race day like marathon training or should I just keep carrying on the sessions week in week out? Still really wet behind the ears with all this as you can tell, but I've got all the will in the world and I'm not sure I'm going to get the best out of myself by repeating similar training each week.
Should I be alternating the Tuesdays with hill reps/ 2km intervals etc or leave it as it is because it does vary every week, I just don't find out what I'm doing until I arrive there. (The coach takes a large group so it's pretty off the cuff)
?????
First speed work since before Telford tonight. My legs are still a bit tender after Xc this weekend so decided to not go flat out but good to get out on the track again. 5*1k with 400m jog recovery. With the longer recovery and slower than normal pace they felt very comfortable, ave rep time was 3.17.
Matt I don't change too much with my structure regards peaking at races. I might target a certain pace and drill that. So if its a 5k I will speed it up the reps to get used to a higher pace.
Interesting that your legs are still a bit sore Dean.
I think a lot of us discovered that after our XC races. I was quite impressed how many went out and ran long the next day. For me it was possible but I could sense fatigue in places that other off road runs hadn't reached before, so indoor spinning on the bike instead. Such is the after effects of 45 minutes of relative violence on mud.
Chiltern League XC this Saturday for me.
🙂
Seb, 8secs faster than 10k pace?
No chance. That'd be faster than theory 5k pace. And the coach man doesn't tend to give sessions of further in reps than the pace distance, certainly not at 5k and over.
Your session sounds typically super fast. Track and someone running with you probably helps. I can only imagine doing that on some pavement alone somewhere and having a right hard time of it!
Dean, I forget exactly where you're based, but presumed it was quite "north-ish". Do you make long trips to the Birmingham league? Or is the league quite far reaching in locations?
I know a lot of you are machines, but the one time I did reps 2 days after a race I found I couldn't get very close to the target paces, and was quite fatigued. These days it's generally a couple of easy runs the day after, and rest day 2 days after.
If it's a half or a particularly hilly cross country, can take a couple more days than that to lose all DOMS.
Ric, bin that off son, and come to Tadley instead.
ps Matt, I'm not sure about much on your background, years mileage, age, injury record etc, but as the face of thread caution, it sounds a bit mad to be planning 2 track sessions, a tempo and a long run in a week. That's 3 quality sessions, and if you're either not used to the long run, or you're talking 14-16miles, that in effect is a medium quality run itself.
Surely 1 track, and 1 tempo is enough for the vast majority of runners. I'm not aware of anyone on here who regularly does more than that these days. Perhaps a couple of chaps throw a park run in every month or 2.
Matt, periodisation is something you need to be a bit of a master to work out. I'm certainly not that, as clearly I follow the training plan from the chap in the thread title. One example of how it'd pan out, is that in base period/buildup, I'd do plenty of 6-7miles at MP tempos. As the racing period comes close though, those would be ditched, and more specific to target distance work would come to the fore.
Matt - I agree with SG. When I suggested tempo stuff to you, I meant that it would be in place of one of your speed sessions. Doing all three in a week is a bit hardcore.
SG - birmingham league is about 90mins drive away but they are all generally run in the birmingham area. Although im sure brum locals would be horified to hear me call lemington and tipton as part of birmingham. The quality in the race is very high, take Seb, 3rd in his county champs yet 50th in the birm league so its worth the travel. There is also a north staffs xc league where the races are very local to balance it all out, 1 race i can just about see from my garden.
Matt - my training has always been based on tuesday (long reps) & thursday (short reps) plus tempo on saturday. A long run on sunday and the rest is easy mileage. I struggle with the tempo and for many months i wasnt doing them at the right pace (too slow)
rgds going out for a long run after the xc race at the weekend - i knew it was daft but wanted to get into my normal training routine and get a LSR in before helsby in 2 weeks, its not something i would normally do. I will only be doing an 8m'er LSR this weekend.
my plan for helsby hm is to go off at target pace for wilmslow (in march) and see how long i hold it for. This way i will know what i need to tinker with in training to hit my wilmslow target. It might mean a bit of a blow up at helsby but im hoping even when the fade comes i can keep it honest and still come home in a respectable time.
some nice tracks sessions last night people. SS - I'm amazed at how you manage to knock out those sessions whilst full of sickness! You seem to have been on the sick side for weeks now but still logging some decent mileage and sessions.
Nice session for me last night too as the fog set in - by the end of the session, I couldn't see the other end of the 100m straight ahead of me! 10 mins @ threshold + 6x 600m (2:02, 2:03, 2:03, 2:03, 2:03, 2:03) off 2 min recoveries + 10 mins @ threshold.
Matt - like Dean, I do 3 quality sessions a week: Tues (track), Thurs (tempo) & Sat (hills and/or tempo) and the Tues & Thurs sessions are double days where I run in the morning too. I don't see doing 3 sessions a week as draining if your other sessions allow recovery and can't see adding a Saturday tempo (i.e. progression run) or hills (i.e. Kenyan Hills) session as a problem.
As SG mentions, what I do in these 3 sessions depends what i'm training for and where I am in the 'cycle', but you can guarantee I'll always have these 3 sessions in every week.
You mention a coach at your club. Is this not something he can help you with? Have you approached him to help you develop a weekly programme?
SG, I gave your suggestion about doing Tadley instead of the Chiltern League some thought and then remembered this.
How times change.
And here I am considering doing neither if there's the possibility of rain.
🙂
Johnas, the coach who takes us takes a group ranging from beginners right through to decent level runners twice a week as well as trying to keep himself ticking over and racing. im not sure if hes a 'proper' coach or just self taught so to speak. I did ask him to look at my marathon training programme last year which took a good while to get any feed back.
the feedback and advice on here has been first class so ill see how I go with that. Its like having half a dozen coaches!
Dean, 90mins away! I could get up there in less than that!
I like a high quality field for the road, but for xc I prefer a better chance of a higher finish really. To come 137th or something would demoralise me I think!
Matt, we're obviously in 2 camps here, but what I would say is go carefully. They always say don't add volume and quantity at the same time. That seems sounds advice!
At the end of the day, all that matters is getting faster year in year out, and staying injury free. If what you do fits those 2 aims, you're fine.
Ric, can't make that out! Do you have a zoom facility! Forget the sat league. At your distinguished position you want a good fun thread trip out methinks!
SG, hopefully this is a better version. I found one way to zoom in, is to simply to copy and paste the image to a 'Word' document, and zoom that.
I've tested this out to ensure you can read what looks like a work of fiction.
🙂
sg- we take a team mini bus down so is quite slow. probably only an hour or just over if i was was driving myself. an advantage of races of that calibre is you are not just focussed on the same familiar local faces so dont have to worry about head to heads (for those that worry about such things)
I would echo SG Matt, but soem do seem to thrive on three quality sessions. Just feel your way into I guess!
Good session Johnas.
Feeling a bit cheesed off myself! Lunchtime interval session of 6 x 0.5M at 5k (ish) pace, but pulled up after rep 4 in pain. Seems to be Fibularis Tendonitis as far as I can self diagnose (!), which could well have resulted from a previous turned ankle that has been bugging me for quite a while, but at a low level and I thought was almost gone. Quite painful to walk or put weight on it. Seems doing just under 40M in 4 days, including a hard race, and a long hily run then some speedwork may have proved to be a mistake! (when will I learn!). To eb fair though, everything felt fine wwhen I set off today and I was even happy to skip todays session for a rest. Will ice it tonight and see how it goes. hopefully it'll be one of those that eases off as quickly as it came...
PS - that was some week Ric! I especially like the 12M in about an hour without pushing it!
cripes Bus, speedwork the day after a 15miler?!
That's rarely a good idea. Let alone after that race Sunday!
just slightly impossible..unless you're an elite I'd say!
Hang on a mo Bus or is that I'm not 'Mo' (Farah) Bus.
Ah ha! a mis read there. Monday reads 3mls am, which I assume means the pm run was a 9 miler. (I'm inclined now to suspect the 9 was closer to an eight)
I've over 20 years of this stuff on the shelf. Its like reading about someone else.
Hope that foot sorts itself out quick. Hopefully its just something unglueing itself having got itself stuck because of the last race.
Sometimes it takes a faster paced run to unhook things.
🙂
there you go Bus, straight from Ric....go and do an even faster session tomorrow to correct things
That makes a bit more sense re the diary Ric - still an impressive week mind!
reminds me of the spring when i had to tweak my schedule a bit as a Man Utd game on the sunday meant I couldn't do the long run that day.
Ended up with quality on the friday and the long run on the saturday. Bit of a mistake, as that basically triggered the month long reduced mileage spell.
in fairness that was also after some monster mileage....and clearly a developing problem.
Yours is more a little tweak, that will ease soon
What's happened to the leg Bus? Hopefully just a twinge/tweak that will sort it's self out in a day or so.
Johnas - Nice session of 600's, nasty business 600m is! Hard to pace, obviously not for Mr Consistent though... 2:03's most the way! Good lad!
I've given in now and decided heavy doses of Lemsip will fix me. Usually I endure and let the body sort it's self but that ain't happening!
Just did 10.3 miles at 7:42 pace, kept it VERY easy all the way and my average HR was 147 BPM which is very low, so a good sign. Still my chest feels tight. Sacking off the double tomorrow! I NEED sleep