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The Middle Ground
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Good session Andrew. The 10+ at MP is fine if you choose a realistic MP (i.e. your actual MP in a marathon race). In the past I have taken MP sessions as being "ideal MP" (based on McMillan's calculator, or Hadd's 80-83% maxHR) and that is much tougher for me (7:20/mi as opposed to 8/mi). But having done a proper lactate threshold test in a lab before London marathon, I now know my LT pace is bang on my actual MP.
Run commuting today ... 6 miles in and 5 miles home.
Dr Dan- The tricky balancing act I find is that mp is a pace you can hold for 26 miles, Therefore, if you are only doing say 5 miles at mp, I am more inclined to run it a bit faster to get a slightly better training effect.
So are you saying that you mp and LT paces are identical? Doesn't that deft logic as your LT pace is that which you can hold for 10 miles?
Agree that MP sessions are only really useful at longer distances. For 5 miles, you may as well do a tempo session.
Fair point - it just seems a bit pointless for the books to describe tempo in that fashion, when we all know that if a plan asked you to try and knock out a 9 mile tempo session people would think you were nuts if you even considered it!
Did 5.5 easy paced last night. preparing myself for he intervals tonight, which I think will be quite tough. Looking back, when I did this session 2 weeks ago (only 3 reps, not 4 though) I did two a bit too quickly and the last a bit slowly, so I need to pace myself better tonight. Will be a bit cooler than 2 weeks ago though.
PS - how is the injury shaping up Aley?
you would be hard pressed to find a book that asked for 9 miles at tempo. I think even p and d mara schedule peaks at 7. Most go with 4-6 miles.
There is then an argument that for slower runners, that would be too long. However people should read the schedules and remember they are generally aimed at people with a threshold of 7mm or below (the clue with p and d is in the name of the book 'advanced marathon running'). Doing 7 miles at threshold if you are running 9mm would be too much
That's my point I suppose, no plan would ask you to actually run at tempo pace for an hour, so why bother quantifying it as "the pace you can maintain for an hour"? Perhaps better to describe as "10k pace + x%/secs"?
Anyway, enough semantics for one day!
Things not good here, frustratingly! Saw my medic friend last Tuesday and he confirmed an Achilles issue. Had already booked a consultation with this guy: http://www.mihp.co.uk/consultant/dr-john-rogers/
Former club mate and international 800 runner and GB team doctor. Saw him on Thursday. Scan said it was indeed a serious Achilles issue. The road back is going to be long! Looking at three months approximately...for most people, and that doesn't take age into consideration. Going to try a course of extra corporeal shock wave, plus lots of weight bearing physiotherapy plus the usual stretches. The frustrating thing was I was in decent shape and that will, of course, go pretty rapidly!
Alehouse, sorry to hear of the seriousness of it. For someone that runs everyday it must be a big loss but being able to get out.
first 20 done today. Tried a new route, which I won't again as it has 1400 foot of climbing. It's absolutely wiped me out and I ran at a sensible 8.18 mm.
Interesting about LT Dr. Dan I hadnt realised that before. I always though LT was the pace you could run 10 mile for too, just goes to show.
First ever DT19? Or first of this campaign?
7 mile undulating race for me today, 4 race in 8 days (5000m, 400m, 5 mile xc and 7 miles!), which includes 3 pbs and one race win. Sadly not a pb at 5000m, well not my fastest 5k anyway, actually my first 5000m. Still it was 30 degrees and a race of three people (I lapped the woman in 3rd twice and won by a minute).
Tomorrow is my assessed practical for my coaching course so I really should go to bed, but para athletics is on the tv and s awesome!!
Had an Achilles op in 2013 which was put down to both over-use and wearing orthotics which kept my foot too stable and was effectively a repetitive strain injury. Have been so careful since as I didn't want the same on the other foot: was very sudden and surprising. The first time was coming up to 60 and training with young uni kids. Not sure what I can blame this time!
5k on the track is officially further than 5 miles on the road! Well done on the win and hope you pop in to say you have passed your coaching course, at least!
Ah other achilles. Bad luck!
First 20 this campaign. Many others in the bank. I'm kind of regretting pitching for an Autumn half with London booked next year. I'm finding it really tough going. It just needs to serve it's purpose!!
The reps were around some local playing fields - fairly flat which was good. Yes, rest intervals were probably about 2.15/2.20 for 400m jogging. Could reduce that I suppose.
DT - you're doing well to be knocking out 20 milers at this stage - must still be fairly early in the marathon training plan?
Sadly got back after a very long and positive day and 2 hours traveling time to find my bike had been nicked from our local tube station (3.5 miles away). Its why we have insurance after all, but still annoying after spending all day helping people and getting better at helping people in future.
I also was going to test cycling into London tomorrow
Ah I thought so DT19 what sort of times are you running at the moment? The pace is impressive for a 20 miler. Nice plans re: balancing the long run load.
AndrewD reducing recovery is a great way of making a session harder, first step is to think about are they consistent or getting longer as the session progresses?
yesterday's 20 had 1400 feet of climbing so was unduly difficult for a first 20. I have been a little indifferent since London and not quite on top form. Have done 3 x 10k, the first two 39.4x then Wednesday's in 40.02. First non sub 40 in two years nearly. In a bizarrely reassuring twist I came down with a stomach bug about 3 hours after the race which has troubled be right through to midday today.
Pleasant 4 mile recovery early evening gives me 40 miles for the week. Ready to start again tomorrow!
Are you getting a decent long run in mid-week also, DT: 13 to 15 miles if your long run is 20?
Yes, LT and LTP, threshold, tempo are often confused and used to mean the same thing. This figure shows it well ... in fact it is very like my own lactate threshold test, except my HR is about 10 bpm lower throughout.
http://cache.sporttracks.mobi/blog/images/2015/08/lactate-chart.png
Alehouse - sorry to hear about your struggles.
Nice intervals session Andrew!
Good 20 at this stage DT.
Week 4 done for me according to plan.
Saturday's parkrun was a disappointing 20:55 (but still a good workout) ... Sunday's 16 miles was at 8:23/m (so MP+23s at 71% maxHR) and went really well.
On the LT stuff, I had mine and my VO2 Max tested in 2014, figures were:
15.1kph (6:23 mins/mile)
58.8
Obviously the numbers will be different today. I am fitter now (at the time I had run 21 minute 5k, recently ran 19:45). Could it be they called it LT, but its actually LTP they measured?
I never run anywhere near my supposed max HR (from the same testing period - 196) in races and often only get to 150. My avg HR at Saturday's race was 134, but I felt pretty much I gave it all I had.
Just wondering I am not running hard enough! I am pretty lazy
134 bpm would be about MP for me, and my maxHR is about 180ish. I'd expect 155-160 bpm in a 5K/parkrun.
Anyway the numbers are so old as to be meaningless.
What I will take from it is:
1. I probably could have run harder on Saturday, but I knew I was on for a big pb (2:01 in the end), and I was a bit worried about my niggly feet on the downhills
2. I need to have another go at the sub 40 in my 10k race on Sunday
Yesterday was tough after the course on Sunday - all sorts of weird aches from long jump, shot put and max sprints! In the end though:
1. hr strength and conditioning work
2. 1:15 ballet class
3. 6.5m run
Today will be stretching/rolling and club session. Missing the bike already as it makes such a good way to fit recovery in without putting any more stress on the legs
6 miles on the bike this morning followed by a 10.6 mile run at 7:59/mile, bang on MP. Came out at only 72% maxHR (130 bpm), which was rather pleasing!
Good luck with the sub 40 attempt, Curly. I cant recall if you have said before, but what is your current pb?
10 miles easy yesterday lunchtime. HR was a bit higher than usual but it was pretty hot.