RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • DD - how liberating!! 

    Welcome Nell. Great tkmes there. Believe in yourself!!

    im feeling better today. Time to do the 12@mp again and see if I improve from te last 2 weeks...

  • Barcelona Race Report:

    Woke up nice and early, no surprise there, got some porridge down  and plenty of fluid  then down to breakfast, some of the other runners were cramming down loads, managed to get some more cereal.  Only a 10 minute walk to the start which is in a great setting.  Set off with Carrot but she was soon a few metres ahead, no major congestion due to the wide road.  Had a problem with one of my gel belts, even though I had tested them previously the left one kept slipping down my left arse cheek. Managed to sort it out by mile 3. Gentle up hill for the first 5 miles,  up and around the Nou Camp, Splits miles 1 to 5  7:28,7:22,7:26,7:16,7:27.

    First Gel at 6 miles and went past Carrot, lots of shade and still early but was getting steadily warmer, taking on a little water at each stn in bottles thankfully.  Meant to see Pink 11k but could n't see her.Felt very comfortable for the next few miles. Splits miles 6 to 10  6:52,6:57,7:01.7:17,7:21.  Next Gel at 10 miles and now pouring water over my head to try and keep the temp down.

    First out and back including the halfway point, enjoyed seeing the quickies going back the other way.  Halfway in 1:35. Splits miles 11 to 15 6:57,7:14,7:14,7:13,7:14.  At this point I was getting a little bit confident it was going to be a good day, but tried to hold it back cause I'd been there before. Gel at 14.

    At some point in the next 5 miles my race number flopped forward, top 2 pins had ripped through due to amount of water I had been pouring on myself, not a problem just annoying Through 16 miles in under 2 hours.  Gel at 18 miles and I felt a little slowing in the pace.  Splits miles 16 to 20 7:21,7:29, 7:44,7:38,7:51, was feeling the heat now.

    Carrot went past somewhere in mile 21 ish, she gave me some words of encouragement but I knew I was struggling and did n't even try and stay with her. Took gel early at 21 but had little effect. By mile 23 I was not running well, arms down by my side just trying to keep going. Probably stopped and walked 3 to 4 times in the last few miles  Race number fell off completely.  Got into the last long stretch and saw the end, just kept counting down the traffic lights.  Got to the 42K mark and saw Pink went over to her and said f*** this too hot, gave her a hug and finished with a smile on my face. Splits 21 to 26  8:02,8:41,8:52,8:47,9:18,8:56, 8:41(last little bit).

    Happy with result and even happier calf held out and is still OK, really could n't have expected much better given build up and conditions.  Great event, great weekend and will probably be back next year.


  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Great report Barry image  If your calf is fine now you must have put that injury behind you, which is very encouraging.
    DD: you probably think I've been around much longer coz I waffle so much ... I'm looking forward to the day where I will say that's it - no more competitive running but I'm not quite there yet. I think I'll carry on until I'm 50 - unless my back tells me to stop earlier than that.
    Welcome Nell Blue. Impressive times image and no , you certainly can't fluke a 3:20 marathon!!
    Great to see you, KFC. Will you still be doing VLM this year or defer and have fun with hardcore tris insteadimage?
    AA: Glad you are feeling better. Hope the MP run goes well today:

    Trendy 5 for me with the last one @ MP (7:32). I'm feeling good today. Last night I was so tired and felt almost ill but I slept like a baby for over 8 hours and this morning's run was brilliant despite strong winds and rain. I've been eating loads this week and forced myself to eat even when not hungry. Now I have a fat belly but loads more energy image

    Good luck with the achilles, Simon. Will you decide after your run then whether or not to defer?

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Chick-good to see you feeling better.I am too and like you-think that I needed more food so my chinese meal last night must have done some good.Still need a good nights sleep though. Unlike for you its a lovely sunny day here and I wish I had got out early to run but will have to do that tonight when the weather is getting worse.image

    AA-that 12 should be done now-hope it went well

    DD-I wonder if you might have a different view after Boston and when you have had some sunny months of training.

    Barry-cracking race there and the mid section was fast,with some very fast splits.Do you wonder 'what if 'had you stuck religiously to say 7.20mm splits but then you had to make up for the hilly first 5 miles? No complaint about the calf so hopefully we wont hear about it again from you as it has undermined too many of your races. Nice one!


  • Barry - great report. You had some real speed in the middle miles. Wonder if that affected the latter few? But you did a fantastic time considering what you've been through the last few months. 

    Chick/2old - I'm with you ...totally starving at the moment and eating loads. 

    12 miles @mp done. It's exactly the same hilly route I've timed over the last few weeks. Woke up much more energetic this morning. Little wind and clear skies. Managed 1:30.57. 62 seconds quicker than last week. @7:35 pace. Still feels too hard to manage 26.2 at this pace though...

  • 7 miles on the heli deck d & d, Going home in 3 hours Yahoo.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    AA-excellent  12 .You'll manage that pace all the way after the taper...and there are no hills at VLM ..unlike Boston

    DD-your workmates must think you are a real nutter or is a there a rig running club? Safe trip home

  • chickstachicksta ✭✭✭

    Nice one, AA image   I can't even manage MP on the flat .... I'm dreading the Newton hills image

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Great reports from Carrot and Barry and just a reminder that the marathon is a long way!  You both did very well and it sounds hot.

    2old - what will your target for the HM be?  I thought it had been cancelled - a colleague was doing an Edinburgh HM and it was cancelled but must be other one.

    Nell - 3:20 on that course is blooming marvellous!  I know those roads very well and although there are some long flat stretches the start and finish were quite undulating?

    AA -  well done on the 12 @ MP.  I have that to do next week. image

    Freemers - can remember if I said well done on your long run during a race last weekend - another cracking effort.

    DD - I bet your own bed will feel amazing after that stint.

    Chick - I thought you'd been running longer too.  I've been trying to eat a lot this last few days too for energy. 

    Carrot - will you be at NEHL on Saturday?  I'm not sure at the moment whether or not I'll run.

    Simon - 50m bike followed by run will certainly help your endurance.

    O4S - how's the house move going?


  • Barry - nice report, where's the next attempt going to be? Good to hear the calf has survived. Some nice rest and massage for it now would be probably wise.

    AA - that is going great guns!

    Nell - looks good for sub 3:15 I reckon, best of luck.

    Simon - your marathon is before London isn't - so I guess you must already be in the taper. Don't try anything speedy and hopefully the achilles should be fine. I am an enthusiastic icer for any problems like this - get the ice pack on it - 20 mins 4-5x per days.

    DD - I suspect 30 days running on a heli deck will knock the joy out of running for anyone - I am sure you'll be pushing the boundaries again soonimage

    Did my 4x1200m last night, all around 6:35. 4 mile warm up to bring it up to 8M.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Minni- how are you feeling now.?More positive and rested I hope. Re Edinburgh Half cancelled- that's the rock and roll HM not the one I have planned. It may not happen as Miss 2O is having doubts. This Sunday's HM target is something close to 1.30 as last years 1.26 is well out of reach and I scraped 1.30 in September .

    Chick- the Newton Hills aren't the Alps. 

    Ant - great pacing on those reps 

  • Ant - Yes Manchester is the w/end before VLM, so 2wks this w/end. I've been icing and squatting, so to speak .

    Chick - Too late to defer, and this was deferred from last year anyway. PF was the prob last year. Even classic Bentleys need more work on the when they get older lol. Will decide after w/end if I race or not.

    Barry - Great race report, I doubt if I'll have heat probs at Manchester.
  • simon - squatting? why would you do that - you want to rest it not put it under additional strain surely?

  • old4speedold4speed ✭✭✭

    Minni:  the house move is proceeding at the pace of a geriatric penguin with arthritis [bit like me really]


  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭
    Barry - great report. Take confidence in your fast first half, you just need another one of those back to back - simplesimage

    Nell - welcome! Sounds like you have a great chance at sub 3.15.

    AA - well done on the MP miles image

    Ant - great speedy intervals image

    Simon - I hope you can make the start line (and the finish). But decide wisely.

    Tempo for me today - repeats of 10 mins MP / 10 mins HMP for 40 mins, plus 10 mins either side slow to get an hour in total and just a shade under 8 miles in total. I've had to shift things around this week and now need to get my intervals done tomorrow, so that'll be fun on tired legs!
  • Carrot, great report, sure you will get your PB another day, less heat. you ran a great race. Perfect .

    Barry, happy for you, not so sure about the mad 1:35 half but hey it got you the time you wanted.

    Neil, welcome definitely a chance of much faster with those times.

    DD don't know how you're doing this loop around the helideck.. Mad.
  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Thanks for the welcome and encouragement guys, it is most appreciated!

    Hi 2old, The Edinburgh HM is a very tempting prospect indeed. I may try it next year and go for another marathon elsewhere. I live in Edinburgh so the EMF  is a nice handy marathon for me... Liz McColgan is organising another HM in East Lothian in September, I may go for that, and the profile looks pretty good.

    I do have a question if anyone has any thoughts on this, they would be most welcome?

    I plan to run the Edinburgh to North Berwick 21 miler on 3rd May. This would be the weekend of my last LSR which should be a 20 miler. With my target in mind I am deliberating what pace to go out on this one. My thoughts are to just run as a training run and obviously not at target MP, but should I run some at MP? What I do not want to do is mess myself up for Edinburgh.

  • Great report Barry, it is indeed a fantastic event that I'm also likely to do again. A lot of those faster miles are similar to where my faster ones too, cruising those downhill stretches!

    Sounds like a lovely run Pink, yes get that photo uploaded image

    Welcome Nell, do stick around!  Echo what others have said re: there's no fluking a 3:20, your HM and 10K times show that you're quick enough. Is the 21M race 3 weeks before Edinburgh?  Can you do it progressive, eg 7M easy, 7M steady, 7M target marathon pace?

    AA!  Yes I'm serious about having a break from the full... but I'm definitely planning on London 2015.  I really want to see what I can do at 5K and 10K, I've never trained specifically for one. Saying that you might have some company at the front of the blue start next month....

    DD / O4S sounds like a great way of running and racing.  It is supposed to be a hobby after all!

    Sounds like you're enjoying the easier week Chick. I'm sure there's no fat belly and those jeans are still loose.

    Minni no I'll not be there either running or supporting, going to the end of season do on the night though (even though I've only run one XC!)

    Nice tempo session Freemers, good luck with the intervals tomorrow.

    Legs are slowly getting back to normal.  Stairs are no longer a sideways challenge.

  • Carrot - you on the champ start next month???

  • Hi everyone,

    Just wanted to say congratulations to Carrot and Barry on a couple of great marathon times in the heat. Brilliant stuff both of you. I am absolute crap at running when it's hot (I did a cross country on Sunday and it was probably only about 16 degrees, but that felt too hot to me!), so much respect to both of you.

    Haven't had time to visit the forum much lately, but hope everyone's training is going to plan. Mine's been going well and I'm looking forward to Brentwood HM on Sunday.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Nell- looks like you've got some good races on your doorstep. Minni is more of a neighbour than me. my local city is Liverpool. Ironically the Rock and Roll franchise has a marathon and HM in Liverpool the same weekend as the Edinburgh marathon. If my daughter drops out of the marathon I might switch to Liverpool if it's not too late. Re the 21 miler the view seems to be do it as a long slow run maybe with a few miles of MP but don't as often happens run your best race then instead on marathon day . Incidentally liz McColgan was of the view 17 miles was far enough for a LR but I bet she ran them very fast

    FRC - running on a helideck is almost as crazy as doing two mountain marathons in two days image What's next on your agenda? Will you be at Liverpool HM on Sunday ?

    Carrot- don't be tempted to run again too soon 

    I took on board the advice here and didn't do my planned 18 mile LR and did a 15 mile MLR instead 7.38 mm average. Can't believe how windy it is every time I do a longer run. Two more very easy runs before Sundays HM will do me .




  • Ant - My achilles feels tight, so the squatting helps to loosen it. My virtual physio '2old' recommended it, so if it goes snap, I'll blame himimage

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Simon- didn't I get you to sign my exclusion from liability clause? That's not like me. imageIt does seem to work though...well it does for me anyway. I'm convinced my Achilles plays up when my hammy is tight or my glutes are weak or both..probably need expert advice on how to best strengthen and stretch these areas . Man Utd did well thanks to Giggs...nice to see an old fella and a Welshman doing the business. 

  • Nell BlueNell Blue ✭✭✭

    Hi Carrot, Thank you for the advice. Reading back I see Freemers did a similar run to what you suggest and that sounded quite appealing. Well done in Barcelona by the way, nice report...

    Hi 2old, Thank you also that is another option I have been considering. I suppose near the time I can have a re-think and see how the body is feeling ;0)

    I have some friends from Liverpool and I did see the HM there, but yes, alas it is on the same day as Edinburgh. The RnR HM was supposed to be in Edinburgh on 29th June but I believe they have pulled out. It was April last year, but Bupa are having a 10 miler in Edinburgh at the end of April this year. Would have preferred the HM to be honest. And yes I bet she did them 17 miles fast!

  • Kfc,nice to ses you pop up.

    2old speedy pace on that run. As for the Liz McColgan, GB runner was telling me recently about his 17 mile long run that weekend in sub 1:30. Grrrr.. Wonder why he needed no fuel for that one.image.

    Simon, squatting is fine. I swear by my weekly S&C sessions, always heavy deadlifting and/ or squatting in there (maybe 70-120kg), keeps glutes and hams strong and loose up for the next run.

    Recovered quickly after the 2 Bolton mara, fartlek 2 days after legs tired, Wed usual S&C , Thu interval session (2k tempo @ 8:15, 6 x 0.5k @ 1:45-50, then the 2k again), then Sunday 10m, 8 @ MP with circuit after. Hills Monday, legs back to normal. Weird.

    Sunday league race, just short of 6 miles, then doing 6m after with some of the marathon runners. Manchester still TBC.

    Good luck to those racing this weekend, Daren, and others.
  • PinkladyPinklady ✭✭✭

    Welcome Nell. You have some nice times there.

    AA Not feeling too nervous at the moment. I think I will be as Sunday gets closer. Looking forward to it though. well done on the 12

    Simon Good idea to rest the Achilles

    2old I haven't pencilled a Mara in yet but you never know. This year for me was about trying HM so I am now heading towards my second one which I didn't think I would.

    Carrot trying to get that photo uploaded but not successful at mo as it keeps freezing. Saw a few hobblers around Barcelona with stairs being a challenge image

    4 miles for me yesterday lunchtime & it was good to get away from the desk. First day back is always hard.

    Another lunchtime run planned for today.

  • AA/2old - Yeah I was expecting a "bollocking" reference the quicker miles and maybe I would have gone quicker overall if I've backed off a little but I think I would have struggled after 20 anyway due to the lack of running in my build up and I'm happy I went for it.  Good running from both of you. 2old methinks you will be well inside 1:30 if you feel you need to.

    DD - Safe journey home, I hear where you're coming from about enjoying it more but only a year ago you were winning age grade races in Dubai. I've a feeling you may reconsider when fully over your injury.

    Ant - Nice quick reps.  You must have read my mind, had a massage yesterday and legs are much better now.  Next outing for me is Stratford HM end of April, PInk is running so I thought I'd tag along, I've done the marathon twice so know the course.  Early May I'm doing the Neolithic Marathon, a cross country race between Avebury and Stonehenge which should be interesting, but next serious PB effort with be Abingdon.

    Freemers - If only it were that simple.  Careful with 2 hard days in a row.

  • FreemersFreemers ✭✭✭
    Nell - I would say the same as carrot. Definitely no more than 6-7 miles at MP, you need time to recover after it. Start much much slower and pick up gradually.

    Carrot - what are you trying to tell us? You're doing VLM off champs? So from taking a complete break from marathons you're now doing 2 in a does that work?image

    FRC - you're legs must be so used to the marathon distance now, they are recovering so quickly. That's all positive image

    Good luck at Brentwood Daren - another PB on the cards?
  • Simon / FRC / 2old - re squats and achilles tendon. No doubt it is a good exercise to help strengthen the achilles and supporting muscles, but I would personally avoid doing any such exercises if my achilles is injured less than three weeks before my A race. Ice, rest, gentle stretching and avoiding hills/speed work. You just want to get yourself to the start line without aggravating it further. The training is already in the bank.

    Barry - Neolithic marathon sounds fun!



  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    Nell - which HM is that in Sept?  I had noted that there is a one at the beginning of Sept from Meadowbank to Mussleburgh, which looks nice and flat.

    Carrot can't resist London! Carrot the only thing I'd say [from experience] is that doing two so close together can really tire the body for a few months after.  Think about the bigger picture and what you want to achieve over the summer.  You may need another month or even two to recover after London and that will take you into June.

    Barry - it would be really good to do that next marathon starting slow and just seeing what difference it makes. 

    I'm having a very lazy week.  Hardly run and not feeling great.  Another couple of early nights will hopefully help.


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