RW Forum Six - Sub 3:30



  • Just popping in to explain why I am no longer popping in [if that makes sense]. Last week saw me enter the next age category and gave me the diagnosis I had been expecting - Osteoarthritis in my left knee with very likely a degenerative tear in the cartlidge as well.  I haven't been able to run at all for over a month and am now on a regime of strengthening the quads and glutes in the hope that I might be able to get back to short distances on the road [10k most likely] but still manage the ultras off road with more walking.  Luckily cycling doesn't give me any trouble so I am managing to stay reasonably fit, however any thoughts of more road marathons have been firmly binned.  Not so much the race itself, but the training beforehand with all the pounding is simply going to accelerate the time when I won't be able to run at all.

    They are giving me until the New Year to see if the strengthening regime helps with the pain, if not I'll have an MRI to see if there is a tear - although really it is academic since they can't do anything about a degenerative tear, only an acute one.  I am surprisingly sanguine about it all, probably because I have been sub-consciously waiting for this to happen- you can't do the mileage I have been doing for 40 years and expect to escape scot free.

    I did manage a silver medal in the British Masters XC relay in the F55 category, with 2 team members who are also approaching F65, so my focus is on a gold medal in the F65 category road relay next May to complete the set [bronze in 2014].  BA can no longer run and the Consultant told him that 'at his age' [70 in Feb] he probably needed to accept that he might not run again, but could walk and cycle to his heart's content.  Given the Parkinsons he was unlikely to be able to run for much longer, but strangely enough he has taken it much worse than me - although he was never as keen a runner.

    I have followed the ups and downs of the autumn marathon campaigns, but not sure if I will be able to face the thought if everyone training for a spring marathon while I struggle to do 10k image.  Concentrating on the 100 mile event in May [which I will have to walk a lot more of] and as well as my Thursday cycling group I am starting up a Tuesday group for women who want to get fit enough for sportives / longer charity rides.  Everyone has to be up to at least 30 miles before they come alongimage

    Hope you all have a good holiday period with plenty of races and training and I might even be up to cheer you on in London next year image

  • O4S: Sad news for you & BA though the ravages of time will catch up with all of us.

    I'm 7 years your junior and can feel somethings which were a breeze 3 years ago becoming a struggle.... not giving in just yet though

    Barry: 20 secs is Ok, 10sec betterimage. Personally I would split 20 x 100 into two or three sets with a 1 or 2 minute real easy recovery between the sets. I find it easier to mix the distances up as a few 50's after 4 x 150M feels real easy.  Have you tried a pyramid ? 1 x50, 1 x100, 1 x150, 1 x 200, 1 x 300, 1 x400, 1 x 300, 1 x 200, 1 x 150, 1 x 100, 1 x 50... makes for a good 2K set.

    Did the club internal 5 mile hill race in 39-12 on Thursday.. happy enough with that given the ongoing injury / niggle problems and lack of decent run training, cycled Friday, 5 mile run Sat, 12 Mile run Sun.... not sure about today.


  • AA. that sounded like tough (and quick) 10 mile event the other day.

    Good to see you, O4S. Not so good to read your news image  30 miles of cycling - ouch, my butt hurts just reading about it image no chance for me to join that group ...

    Decent training, DD. 12 miles ain't bad for a crocked old man image

    10 @ 7:57 mm today. Desmond has blown himself away so it was nice to run on a calm morning for a change.

  • I killed the thread image

    20 miles d&d. Now for some Christmas market fun and Gluhwein image
  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    Chick- 20 miles!!!! Yes you have killed the thread now. Great Xmas run. Looks like you've got your back managed . Love Glyhwein -especially after a day's skiing

    DD/ impressive efforts - just goes to show what signi g up for an IM can do for motivation

    Barry-hope the Achilles settles. I found my Achilles complained when imbalances occurred elsewhere ..just s pity I couldn't work out which ones

    O4S- nice to see you back but sorry to hear of your and BAs troubles. Don't worry about marathons - they are overrated. Still winning lots of bling too. Keep on inspiring us/me please

    AA- glad you found your mojo again - ready for next year
  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    42 miles this week including 17 miler and a 59min 8 miler plus a swim and two office parties. Back still a pain -see GP next week
  • I went to my QoP on Thursday. She did some unbelievably painful things to my lower back and piriformis so that I could.barely walk on Friday but 24 hours later all pain (the old and the newly inflicted) was gone image

    Good partying there 2old.

    Was supposed to do race 2 of the winter series today but CNBA. We have friends round later and it's just too much hassle ...
  • 2Old: impressive mileage for a crock

    Chick: banging the miles as out as ever, sometime though CNBA is THE answer.

    Monday cycled 40 miles, Tuesday swam 2 K ran 4 miles, Wednesday Cycled 40 Miles, Thursday Ran 13 miles ( had forgotten how hard it is to run the day after a longish hilly cycle, Friday feeling shite so nowt, Saturday ran 6 at a tempo and yesterday trotted 4 cos still not 100%. Today probably a run latter if the Queens counsel who keeps hassling me for and more marine opinions ever stops emailing and calling. Niggle 95% better, still reminds me if I go mad.


    Have fun out there

  • Hi AA, Good to see you getting back into thingsimage

    Hi Barry, Hope the ankle is ok?

    Hi o4s, Nice to hear from you, but some not so nice news. Some good stuff in there so I am focussing on that and glad to see you are scaling down with a 100 mile ultra! Hope to see you in London one way or another?image

    Hi DD, Sounds like you are getting really back into things and not giving that niggle chance to get a word in...image

    Hi Chick, 20 miles this time of year, sure you hadn't already been on the Gluhwein?

    Hi 2old, The mileage is back up? Hope the GP can sort the back out.

    Work bit manic at the moment, the sales guys are all trying to recognise the revenue at the moment so are just throwing kit at customers who are not ready for it and we are having to go in and install the stuff. So while everyone is slowing down I feel we are ramping up. Thankfully I have booked Christmas off!

    Still been getting some running and S+C in though. Wet 6 miler run Saturday, then a nice cold but sunny 11 miler Sunday. S+C Mon/Tues morning and hill reps tonight. Managed to keep up with the hill runner and in some places get in front, so felt pretty good after the session tonight. Just shows, really didn't fancy it beforehand... Hopefully get down to the club session tomorrow night.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    Chick -looks like your still partying -about time

    DD- us crocks can't be beaten. Very impressed with your training. Know what you mean about QCs- they keep giving lists of things to do by yesterday

    Nell- yep I'm pushing the envelope ... Typical pre Xmas madness with you then? Good to see the running is going well

    8 at MP on Sunday, 6Monday , 2k swim yesterday , 19.5miles today 8.1mm average. Looks like I've retained a bit of fitness

    Saw GP today nothing to worry about in MRI and XRay so it just down to the Physio to fix me. Ignored that advice as I'm seeing a chiropractor who seems to be doing the trick
  • Hi 2old, Good news from the GP. Glad the MRI and X-Ray checked out ok. I tried a chiropractor and didn't have a great experience, got the impression he was just out to fleece me and even advised to give up long distances ! image


    Joined the session tonight. Paarlauf Session, 300M. 3 members in each group and 8 reps in total. Averaged 5:05mm Apart from one ridiculous 4:40 to start with and a 5:17 on the 6th rep....  Nice quick session and my son wondered what had happened when I actually arrived on time to pick him up for once image

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Nell-I'm as sceptical as you but after he clicked a few bones in me things seem to have improved so I'm not complaining.I've still got a way to go before I'm back to the usual run of the mill aches and pains.  Crickey those were fast splits ,do you feel that you are running much faster? Am I correct in saying you havent started your marathon schedule yet?

    Bit sore today after yesterdays LR so may take it easy.

  • 2old: some good running there for a crock. I found a chiropractor great for back problems not so good for evrything else.

    Nell: sounds as if your busy, speedy running there.

    training a bit hit and miss this week thanks to QC, but had my hour in court on wednesday so all quiet now. Christmas cracker speed session with club last night ended up in the faster of the middle groups so had to work hard doing crocodiles, Paarlauf etc. 45 miles on the bike today in the grey but hey ho it as warm. Run tomorrow or maybe swim

  • Hi everyone

    O4S- sorry to hear your news and hope you can keep on enjoying shorter stuff and slower image100 milers for many years to come!

    AA- sounds like you're back enjoying your running- glad to hear that.

    Nell- super speedy as always, those are not numbers I ever see on my garmin.image

    I'm back running after a 2 week break in the sun. Doing only slow runs at the moment (nothing faster than 8.45), some of them with strides for another week. Will then do a parkrun, assess the damage and take it from there.

    My marathon shoes are firmly hung up for 2016. I'm planning to spend it on trying to get my 10k and half times down and will not attempt another marathon until I bank 90min for a half- don't think there's much point.

    My conclusion from San Seb is that I left it in training- doing too much quality, all long runs done fast, not enough recovery including in taper and generally overtraining. I was being coached so not entirely my own stupidity but hey ho. I should've probably trusted my instincts more when it didn't feel right. Lesson learnt. I think this type of training may work for some but clearly not for me. So I'm back with Moz and planning on training a lot more sensibly in the future! Looking forward to a lot of parkruns and 10ks this coming year...imageimage

  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭

    O4S - oh dear.  image  I'm sure you'll find a way to continue doing what you love. 

    DD - you've been in court???

    2old et al - I think as one gets older pain becomes a way of life.  Or at least that's what I'm experiencing!  We just have to manage it, apparently.  

    AA - what you up to?  Did your knee right itself eventually?

    Barry - I'm in no position to give anyone swim advice but I have found that on the two occasions Iv'e backed off and had a few weeks off swimming either completely or just doing the odd 20 lengths, I have started again a better swimmer than before.  

    Bro - it was painful to follow you in San Seb although the splits told a different story.  I think they must have been gun and showed you having a very slow first 5k then speeding up!    

    I finished the year with an 8th place in my club Grand Prix.  Felt slightly robbed as out of the 13 who had done enough qualifying races there were 4 of us still to do the last 5 mile race in December.  All the runners ahead of me in the table already had 5m points from a one in the summer and I felt I could score around 70 points, which would have moved me into 3rd place.  However this last race as cancelled due to weather.  The committee decided that the points from the previous 5m should still stand and therefore the 4 of us missed out.  I have to admit I was a bit miffed - I assumed they would just delete the category to make it fair.  However, I respected the committee's decision and gracefully accepted my 8th place trophy! 

    I have given next year a lot of thought and decided to miss London in April.  I really don't feel ready to start marathon training just yet and think I need to concentrate on shorter distance for a bit.  So the plan is Amsterdam in October, a 20 mile fell race in July and shorter stuff up to that.  

    Also starting back with Moz on 1st January and getting prober dietary advice from a sports nutritionist.  image

    Actually, can not wait!  

  • So that is 3 of us out of VLM next year - for once the men might outnumber us.

    Some good news my end, managed my first race on Tarmac since VLM, last Thursday evening - after cycling 45 miles with the club during the day!  Way off my times last year, but came home in 40 mins 10 secs, which was still 84% WAVA and first F65 (probably the only F65 image) No running since, just spinning, road cycling and a 16 mile muddy walk, but planning a gentle run tonight with friends, then 4 mile race Boxing Day and 10k race NYD if the knee holds up. Just taking it one day at a time and counting each pain free day as a bonus. Strengthening exercises are certainly helping - but 90 squats a day plus endless glute exercises takes up an inordinate amount of time!! image

    Can't begin to contemplate the speeds Nell is recording - I'd probably struggle to keep up on the bike!  

    2Old: I'm considering a name change to 2old4speed to go with my new status. 

    Hope everyone else is getting ready for marathon training in the New Year - I'm really glad not to feel I should............

  • Hi 2old, Yes, when I visited the chiropractor he just seemed to keep resetting my hip every visit. To which I thought what is the point. he pee'd me off a bit as he just kept trying to sell me stuff I could get half the price from Amazon. As well as trying to put me off marathons! Hopefully your one will do some good.

    No 2old, No marathon schedule started as yet. I will begin at the end of January for a 12 week plan up to London.

    Not sure whether I am running faster after incorporating the two midweek group sessions. I am enjoying the group sessions, but not sure how I will take them forward into my schedule. At the moment they are serving a great purpose in combining them with the S+C to get a good base for the marathon schedule. Must admit, some nights my legs are in bits on a Wednesday....image

    Hi DD, yes it is even warm up in Edinburghimage

    Hi bro, Nice plan to work on the shorter distances. It will be interesting to see how you get your times down. I feel I struggle at the shorter ditances especially 5 and 10K and feel that my times in those two distances do not really reflect my marathon time. Sounds like you are in for a lot of lung busting runs!

    Out of interest, how  long was your schedule ran for?

    Hi Minni, Well done on the 8th place. You must be happy after coming back from the op etc?

    Bringing in a sports nutritionist, serious stuff? image

    Sounding positive!

    Hi o4s, Glad to hear the good news. Yes the glute exercises do take up a lot of time, but are really worth it image

    See you are taking it easy over Christmas?

    Wind has been pretty ruthless over the last few days. Saturday had a TM session, 3 x 800M @ 16KMph, 2 x 400 @ 17K and then 200M @ 18K. Monday 8.5 Miles @ 7:45mm average. This morning retreated to the TM again for 4 x 800M @ 16K, 4 x 400 @ 17K, 3 x 200M @ 18K,18.5K,19K. Looks like more wind to come image

  • The treadmill I used to run on in the gym wouldn't go faster than 16kph image Blimey but that speed is mind boggling.

    Bro: sounds like it was just not the right training plan for you. It takes a few hits and misses I guess.

    Great to see you, minni. Think you're right. Once past 45 it's no longer possible to run pain-free image so you just have to learn how to live with it.

    Sensible decision by both of you to skip VLM and stick with Moz image

    My running has fallen a bit by the wayside image just too much bloody work leaving me tired and unable to get proper runs in. I'm hoping that 3 weeks in Florida as of 11 January will kick start my spring campaign. It sure sounds a lot more appealing to run along the sea front in vest and shorts than battling high winds and rain in the dark.

    Have a lovely Christmas all. Hope Santa brings loads of nice pressies image
  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    Happy Xmas all. Hic
  • Happy Xmas / New Year folks

    Minni: often in court but as an expert not a defendant!

    O4S: i admit that I face yet another marathon season with some trepidation.

    Nell; quick running

    Bro: im sure you can go sub 40 for 10K

    Chick: yep always something nighling away.

    Still pushing on with the cycling, running swimming, 4 miles yesterday, 7 today easy paces though



  • Belated Merry Christmas to everyone and good to see some excellent training during the festive period.  I have n't run for 2 weeks due to achilles, trying to make sure its fully OK before trying again, got fed up with the repeating cycle of run/sore feels better after a few days/ and repeat.  Been cycling swimming. 

    Bit of a quandary for me a I want to concentrate on London but received Be Iron Fit for Xmas and it advocates a lot of low heart rate aerobic training and very little top end stuff and obviously the plan does not include the amount of running for marathon specific training.   Hopefully try a short run tomorrow.

  • Well survived everyone! We both managed the 4 mile Boxing Day run in Clevedon yesterday, despite a ferocious headwind along the seafront for the last 1.5 miles. Only 50 seconds slower than last year which after everything that has been going on (or in the case of training hasn't been going on) I'm content with - just keeping under 8mm. BA ran further than he has done since March, and while he did 38 minutes overall, he was delighted just to have managed to run it all without his knee hurting. Walked 5 miles to warm down, then today did 16 miles in the Welsh Mountains in epic mud - we'll have to spend a good chunk of tomorrow cleaning everythingimage

     Next target is 10k race on NYD - but need to get back to more strengthening.

    Hope the festive period didn't disrupt your training image - here at Cold Comfort Farm we haven't even managed Christmas dinner, unless you count heating up a frozen pizza. At least we don't need to worry about weight gain.......... 


  • Belated Christmas Greetings folks and hope you have a Good New Year!

    I am in to my 47th year and touching wood Chick, so far I am pain free after sorting my ITB issues out a couple of years ago image

    Hi DD, Hard to push too hard this time of year...

    Hi Barry, Sounds like one or the other then, marathon or IM?

    Hi o4s, Hope the pizza at least had some chicken as a topper? Good luck with the 10K tomorrow image


    Nice 6.5 miles this morning. No wind for a change and only a small shower. Averaged 7:05mm which felt a bit harder coming up the hill home.... Portobello 4 miler on the Prom tomorrow morning. Now that could be hard image

  • So today I finished 365 days (or a year in old money) of exercise every day - minimum 5k on foot (run or walk) or 20k bike. Not many days at the minimum except before and after VLM and various ultras. Plan to carry on into next year, but perhaps reduce the minimum to 3kimage

    Anyway 50 miles on the bike today to finish the year.

    Hope you enjoy the race tomorrow Nell, I'm keeping my fingers crossed there is less wind than on Boxing Day as we will be back on the sea front for our 10k image

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭
    Happy New Year to everyone from the mountains.
  • Happy New Year from the sofa image

    Here's to an injury and illness free 2016
  • Hangover 10k safely completed this morning - precisely 2 seconds faster than last year (just under 50 mins). BA also made it round in a few seconds over 1 hour - over 3 mins slower than last year, but he was just glad to complete. Won the FV65 with a new 'course record', over 6 minutes faster than the winner last year!  If anyone wants a bottle of pink fizz please get in touch (Yeugh!!!!).

    Hope anyone else racing had a good day and the rest of you are enjoying your hangovers. I'm going to give Christmas dinner a bash tonight - pass the packet stuffing, gravy granules and frozen veg image

  • Happy new year, as the song says "lets hope its a better one"

    o4s  - very well done on the 10K, see you're not quite finished yet with your record setting, enjoy the fizz or pass it on as a pressie to a "friend"

    nell - hope you smashed the 4 miles.  I'll be doing both, hopefully, but decided to concentrate on VLM and work around the cycling and swimming.

    I've run 3 times this week, 2 5's and a 7 this morning and all good so far.

  • 2Old2Old ✭✭✭

    Hope you all had a great Christmas break .As usual I ate too much ,drank more than I should have and ran very little  ( not at all)

    O4S-sad to miss you at VMLM (assuming I get there)and maybe you might change your mind. Mulling over Amsterdam myself so maybe our paths may cross in the red light area or similar. Congrats on your Grand Prix and your 10k record. Setting high standards as ever. 

    Bro- go on squeeze in a cheeky start in London. You know you want to. Good to see you easing back in after your  hols 

    Chick- how was the gluwine? Mine was pretty good . Not sure if this year will be injury free looking at my start . Fingers crossed though for everyone 

    Nell- looks like youre well set for the coming year  . Did you nail that 4 miler? What was the key to fixing your ITB....I'm wondering if that's affecting my hip 

    Barry- thought you'd race London . Many doing IM in Bolton do a Spring marathon all should be good  . You'll soon get the run mileage back up  . Keep on avoiding injury  

    DD- An expert witness eh?...sometimes us lawyers feel like defendants these days ! Training going well I see .Any skiing planned?

    First run of the year today after a week in the mountains skiing -surprisingly good considering the poor snow fall in December... But then again I quite like fast skiing on hard packed ice. First run of the day today -Just over 8 miles AV 7.24mm in rain and wind .Loved it . Pity my hip is still playing up . 




  • Hello everyone and Happy New Year!

    Slightly depressed to be back at work...

    2Old- haha thanks but no thanks, not at all tempted to do VLM!image

    A decent amount of running got done here in the last 3 weeks, most of it very slow with just some short strides/ 100-150m sprints thrown in and a parkrun last Saturday which went ok considering it was a total mud bath. All fired up now and ready to start some proper training and racing over shorter stuff, starting with Surrey xc champs in Denbies this Sunday- eek.image

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