Fink for Outlaw 2012



  • thats fair enough RP....i'm not in the same camp as you now was about a finish for me but i do understand wanting to compete (or at least finish fast) if your capable so you're plan i think is sound. image
  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭
    Andy inspirational read well done.

    What was your background training like doing the first and then second?

    What did you do differently on the second?

    There's a lot of us first timers on here and any nugget may help someone finish outlaw,cheers.
  • Hi background training consisted of riding motorbikes, drinking beer and eating pies...sometimes all at the same
    seriously though my background was football...thats all i ever did till i was 35 and had to stop due to a back 39 i did my first triathlon (supersprint). 40 when i dnf'd and 41 (obviously) when i finally what i'm saying dont have to have any specific background or training to do this.

    differences between the dnf and the success were 3 really...
    1:trained harder on the matter what anybody tells you it IS ABOUT THE BIKE...people spend so much time fretting about the swim....if you can swim for 10 minutes you can swim for 2 hours and the swim IS THE EASY BIT. lots of people also go out running doing 18 mile training runs.....but if you get off the bike and cant run at all what was the point?? i never ran more than 10k...cause i accepted i'd walk a lot so planned to give myself enough ride your bike...get strong...dont leave it to the day to ride 100 miles (even if that training ride takes you 9 hours)
    2: Nutrition...and specifically not over complicating it...i carried so much crap with me the first time...savoury snacks...jelly babies...even a chicken sandwich cause i was convinced i'd get hungry....dont bother...if your 60 miles in and eat something your body will send blood to your stomach..and then your legs will feel week...Keep it simple....i put all my gels into a bottle on the front of my bike and took a sip EVERY 15 minutes...this was 60g carbs an hour and kept me going just fine...water with a NUUN at every aid station...simple.
    3: my attitude....if you go into this thinking...'i'll just see how it goes' probably wont make it to the end..if you start it COMMITTED to reaching then end however long it takes then you'll make it!!
    any other questions...(i'm no expert but i know what worked for me)then please ask
  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭
    Cheers Andy
  • Thanks for some good advice Andy and Cake.

    Andy - your blog is very inspirational.

    And I laugh at worrying about 4 hour marathon time - mine is 5:40. image  I'm going for the value for money option.

  • ha ha...nice one berlin time was 5.27 so your in good company here!!
  • I've not managed to get on her much lately but been reading back.

    Andy, just read your IMUK blog.....I cried. image  Emotional stuff this Ironman business and that's just reading about it.....lord knows how I am going to cope with actually training and doing it.  I have forwarded the links on to my training buddy....a bloke who cuts corners on his training and nutrition(but don't tell him I said so) and doing the Outlaw!!!! Hope he will read it and think on. image

  • Really looking forward to Outlaw, and to being Sherpa for my lovely wife on her 1st long distance. Perhaps I'll throw my hat in for a relay slot, especially if the rest of my team asks me to do the swim, bike and run legs image.

    Great to see you on here and contributing, Timmy. i find you an inspiration and your advice must be particularly cool for those who are worrying that they won't get there. Stick on Timmy's wheel, folks, and not only will you finish at the glorious, floodlit end of the race, but you'll maximise your value for your money! You too, Cake... such a motivator when i stumbled my way round last year. Just don't anybody tell Cake if you're popping to the chemi-lav. Poor, poor Jaffa. I'll bet he still stinks of it.

    I like this thread, but it's not as good as the "Iron Distance Training" thread last year. This one being Outlaw and Fink focussed makes it a little exclusive. Don't get me wrong... i LOVED doing Outlaw last year and I did it on a combination of Just Finish and Intermediate from Fink. Wonder whether we need another thread for non-Outlaw folks, or whether i ought to just tuck-in here?

  • Tuck in then. image
  • First structured swim session tonight, although I think there might have been a lot of almost drowning in amongst the swim parts. 

    I thought I could swimquite well but I found the drills pretty difficult, or rather I found breathing whilst doing the drill very difficult.  All this high elbow stuff, pull buoys, breathing techniques, one arm strokes...all new to me.

    I haven't started my Outlaw program just yet as I have a heavy few weeks coming up at work and don't want to get myself into a stop/start, shall I/shan't I routine. 

    Andy sort of confirms my suspicions in that the bike leg and nutrition will be the key for me. 

    If I can attend my tri swimming club session  once a week, run with my current running club three days a week (1 interval, 1 tempo and 1 sunday morning long run) and get out on my cycling club/tri club session on a Saturday as well as whatever else I can fit in, I hope that will loosly follow Fink.

    I'll not know how it will pan out until I start as I want to also fit in a few winter league trail and XC races.

  • I train best in company cos I'm a social butterfly so I am also aiming to fit in as much training with the club as I can.  They Turbo once a week, swim session midweek, bike with the fast boys on Saturdays for a long ride which at present is 50m and they kindly wait for me but I am hanging on not too badly and know it will make me that much better.  They know that I have entered this and are happy to get some longer club rides going to help me out.  Saturday I was stunned to see that the 50m averaged at 17.6mph. Sundays is a swim/bike/run session. So need to fit some run sessions in around that just need to work out where and what.image
  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭
    A question for those doing outlaw, done it or any long distance for that matter.

    How do you start with a nutrition plan, before seeing what works for the individual.

    Somewhere someone must have given you the advice, so spill the beans and share the secrets of success or failure in spectacular bonks and dnf.
  • Im a newbie to this thread, so go easy on me!

    Did IMUK last year, and left my nutrition strategy till late to get it sorted. I first "properly" practised it at the Beaver in May, and on some advice, I started taking gels every 20 mins on the bike, together with regular sips of water / energy drink. One hour in I felt rotten, stomach bloated and it really impacted my bike.

    Luckily I held it all together (and in!), slowed up on the gels and got round in 5-44 at the Beaver.

    Over the next few weeks I found some gels that worked for me (Hammer Gels - I struggle cos Im a Ceoliac and allergic to wheat and Gluten) and they worked fine. My long bikes became easier / more bearable as I was taking these gels every 30 mins (after first hour)and drinking every 15 min.

    It worked great on the day at IMUK on the bike....on the run I made it up as I went along really, alternating between the gels they were giving out, and bananas.

    Got round, which was the main thing (13.33), going to follow the Fink Intermediate to see what I can do at the Outlaw!
  • Gels + energy drinks = image

     I can only take energy gels with water.

  • TJ...nutrition is a fine art and one that only YOU can perfect...personally i use the torq gels as they taste better but dont go believing you can find some that you'll LOVE...after 6 hours of taking em you WILL be sick of em..but you have to keep topping up the tank.
    A mistake a lot of people make is only taking a gel when the tank is every you go empty-full-empty-full (in terms of energy)....i find it best to take in energy as you start then keep it topped you go full-half full-full-half full-full...geddit??
    if you just take on gels and energy drink you'll dehydrate...thats a fact and your race can be ruined by it.
    so i have gels in a bottle...and sip a gob full every 15 minutes..that way i never bonk....and i get a water bottle at every aid station and make sure i'm throwing away an empty 1ltr about every hour..with every second bottle having a NUUN.....when your going at my pace its no biggie to stop and drop one in after you've picked up the bottle.
    As i said its something you do need to practice...get some gels...try different ones and see which work and which you hate...then start using em...if your out training train with what you'll have on race point riding for 2 hours...stopping for a pub lunch then riding 2 hours back and convincing yourself thats a 4 hour training is for your legs...but not for your body.
    a good rule of thumb to start is that for every KG you weigh you should have 1g of carb per hour (but probably only upto about 60g per hour) in torq gels...thats 2 gels per hour.

    hope that makes sense....its a starting need to practice it.
  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭
    Ta very much Andy, these are the things that none of the books guide you on so it's best to get the info from people who have been there and then see what works in practice.
  • image On the nutrition side of things some of you know my better half she hs set up her own private company giving advice on that front. Just trying not to spam everywhere to much given it would be a bit checky. If you go to SJM nutrition on facebook or twitter you might be helping to pay for the moregage cheers. image If you got any questions I'm sure she would be able to give a quick and useful answer on here anyway.

    Like andy said you need to pratice it. If your training up for outlaw high 5 is again being used I think. Unless you have a plan of not using the feed stations make sure you get some of it and train with it so your body is used to it for a start.

    slowerthanilook wrote (see)

     You too, Cake... such a motivator when i stumbled my way round last year. Just don't anybody tell Cake if you're popping to the chemi-lav. Poor, poor Jaffa. I'll bet he still stinks of it.

    image He still thinks that was me by the way you bad'un's old there. image
  • TJ, when I first started trying to figure out my nutrition, I could only manage power bar gels about once every half an hour and after about 3 to 4 gels, that was all I could take. I used powerbar because that's what my chosen race was using.  It's a bit like the training, you don't start out with 112miles. If you have a dodgey stomach you might want to try various brands and flavours until you find one that works. If your stomach can take most things, then it's a good idea to find out what the race you're doing will stock and practice with those. I decanted my gels into 100ml bottles and carried them that way. I trained my stomach to work off powerbar gels with powerbar isomax drink between gels which was what I planned to do race day. So I freaked out when we were told at race briefing there was no Powerbar Isomax. I had to go out and buy a tub at the race expo. Also, I found after 8 hours or so of racing, I couldn't take any more powerbar gels on the run so I switched to high five iso gels which are a bit easier to take. Unfortunately I didn't know this for my first IM as it's very hard simulate the full race and it was only when I tried to take my second powerbar gel on the run that I discovered it wasn't going to happen. I had to switch to chicken broth for the rest of the race. Had learned my lesson though and got it right second time round!
  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭
    thanks cake and orca.

    Outlaw is high 5 so I better start trying them out.
  • Or be self sufficient with what works for you....i knew imuk was using powerbar...and i dont like i took my own gels in a bottle topped up with a little water....then all i needed was water from the aid stations.
    what if you only like one flavour...and they have run out.....what if the powder mix they use is wrong.
    my vote is for gels for energy....water for hydration....nuun for electrolytes.....keep it simple i say
  • I started out using SIS go gels as you don't have to take them with water. Then after doing lots of trail runs and missing out on flap jacks and cakes (as I was really worried that they might not agree), I soon learnt to eat and run.image (bike and eating is even easier)

    I have recently tried GU gels (at amsterdam mara) as they pack a lot of calories for such a small gel, there lovely and would recommend them.

    Outlaw also provide jaffa cakes, oranges and the life saver....flat coke

    Cake heres a big fat SPAM to youimage

  • I started with SIS too, and then moved to maxifuel after getting a huge amount of them at a tri. I used them at Beachy head, and felt like jumping off when I had the last gel.

    Nutrition is going to take some thought for Outlaw, if I can't take any more gels after 4 hours image

  • Re nutrition

    Train it as with everything else

    Bike. I have a gel on the 30 mins, then something
    Solid on the hour. Or maltloaf, banana or sports bar bit.
    practice this so its routine
    I drink 750ml of sports drink per hr, (high5, torq or powerbar)
    But also carry a bottle of nuun - I use that to drink the gels down with

    Re gels I use torq black cherry, but the gu banana / raspeery was nice
    I tolerate some power gels, high 5 are better than ok
    Try different types now
    Jam samdwiches are also good, and cheap

    For training I use a bento box, 2 bike bottles, 1 of nuun, and a bike canister holding spare gels, sports drink power etc

    Re the run
    For any run > 1 hour, I run/ walk. In the run section I slurp on sports drink, about 750ml per hour - I use a camelback....
    I have a banana, gel, malt load every 30 mins

  • Try what you fancy now, find
    Out what works but try to keep is simple / achievable

    Late in the race, a gel I the last thing you think you need.
    Just swallow it, htfu and keep going
    image' />
  •  Great tips on nutrition and I know this is something I need to work out.

    Andy IM blog a very inspiring read. Just hoping I can miss out on the first attempt you had.

    I've just almost completed (run tomorrow) a run through of Fink week 1 as a test of time management and current fitness and all seemed OK. The swim definitely the hardest part, but the bike/run start is comparatively slow. Now trying to hold off for 2 weeks with just a few sessions to' tick over' before 5th Dec. Just know the enthusiasm will be hard to maintain!

    Do most people camp for Outlaw?

  • My Nutrition is somewhat like OCs gel and Nuun isotonic drink every 30 mins and a banana on the hour or a bit of flapjack, on the run I tend to grab a little bit of what I fancy at each aid station and wash it down with water then crack into the flat coke at around the 16 mile mark.

    The one thing I now do to prevent the cramps which cocked up  my first three IM swims is to start hydrating the day before but with NUUN or sports drink NOT plain water I also get a couple of gels down 30mins before the swim hey presto my last two IMs great swim times (for me) and no crampingimage' />

    Gel and nutrition wise I tend to train with a wide range of stuff and it seems to get my Tum used to taking on anything  avilable on race day

    The issues I used to get with my stomach on my first couple of imS was due to panicking that I wasnt eating enough and overeating  image' /> I now probably consume half of what i scoffed on my first IMs and I am much more comfortable and faster so beware eating to much on the bike especially

    I am just starting to get back into training properly after a long break after IMW and trying to resist doing anything really stupid like breaking my vow of no IM in 2012 and entering Outlaw ........must resist after all somebody has got to man the pirate drink stationimage' />

  • So glad to hear the advice for nutrition, I am doing relay swim and run. The last time I did a marathon, gels had not been invented, I used mini mars bars. This time round it will be easier but seem to cope with most gels and foods, but need to avoid flat coke.

  • At the Outlaw this year

    Gel and banana in T1

    Gel on the half hour, Cliff bar on the hour...I only drank water on the bike and only did three bottles in 6 and 1/2 hours, which i know is not enough.

    And then a gel every 1/2 hour on the run, with a handful of ready salted crisps after 15 miles, i know i used every aid station but again stuck to water till 18 miles and then went onto the flat coke.

  • TJ1004TJ1004 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for all the tips everyone.

    Another numpty question coming up...

    Do people stop on the bike leg get off and refill water bottles, grab gels etc or just slow down and grab what is handed out?
  • TJ...comes down to how much time you have........there is a water battle drop at the start AND end of each aid can stop at the end one to fill up....drop nuun in...whatever.....
    but you have a bottle.....drink it then throw it...get a new one....if thats what your asking....if you have a speedfill then you can grab a bottle....stop at then end of the aid station...fill it and throw the empty.
    hope that makes sense
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