Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

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  • Tenjiso: well done for playing it safe. You could try the ice again tonight if your wife lets you have the tea towel image Don't panic about the long runs... yes, they are important but if you miss one it's not the end of the world. I often programme in long run-free weeks when I'm coaching clients. Better to let the problem resolve completely than return to full training too early. Think of it like a scab that's healing. If you keep moving it, it'll keep breaking open again.image Not saying you MUST rest - if you feel good after today's little run, then you can probably give the easy miles a go tomorrow. But don't feel you HAVE to get that long run in this weekend. A shorter run might be more appropriate. Listen to your body.

    'Listen to the whispers... and you won't have to hear the screams'

    Craig: Hope the interview went well and hats off for such a stupidly early run this morning! Next week's long run you'll have some company. We are going to do it as a group (sort of... at appropriate paces) on the next training day. More details to follow soon!

  • Just got back in and ate a bowl of pasta in one mouthful. Well not quite, but nearly. Wife got me pasta for dinner today, nice one!

    Guys, thanks for the best wishes on the job front, I find out tomorrow... Felt ok, but one of those jobs with different responsibilities for the same pay... But wouldn't get the chance to progress otherwise. Things are static or in reverse in the public sector at the moment...

    Sam: thanks for the pace updates. Thinking that the weekend sounds interesting, my long run may take a while. Best get used to other finishing, showering and eating before I'm anywhere close the the end.... V early mornings over for the week now.

    Ruth: my local deli will be upset to hear that I'm taking note on the processed meat front. Posting on here has been a eye opener, been recording everything since March, but not been public before... My weakness is clearly not sweet things, but hard savoury stuff...

    Tenjiso: nice! I'm really pleased fella.

    oscarr: how are the shoes? And am I being silly in asking what is the difference between xc and other running? Is it muddy stuff, grass, trails and road all mixed up or something else? Also it is just winter, if so what about summer??? Needing to ask...
  • BoD - good luck with the ob t'mrow.  Shoes - wow, what a question!  I'm no expert but here goes from a buyers perspective;

    Road running shoes tend to be high on cushioning technology cos of all the impact and are low on tread grip cos they generaly don't get used off-road although most good road running shoes do have a bit of a tread which makes them ok for off-road in the summer when trails etc are dry and they are pretty flat

    XC running shoes are very high on tread and ability to withstand lateral movements the like of which you get when running through tank tracks in the mud for instance.  They have large grip points on the soles for going through deep mud, water, slippery grass etc.  They tend to be light on cushioning cos most runs are short (around 5 miles) and you need some rigidity and they need to stay on!!

    Trail shoes are sometimes a mixture of the two above but can go all the way to super tread shoes for muddy fell runners who go straight up and down big hills and need loads of grip.

    Difference between winter and summer is the wet and mud meaning you need more grip in the winter but as mentioned above you can mix the shoes you need for same terrain in different weathers.

    I bought my trail shoes cos my current XC ones are high on tread but low on cushioning and will not get me safely round a summer trail marathon hence the new purchase of shoes which have a lot more cushioning but still with enough grip.  My road shoes I keep for road and summer flat trails.

    Probably opened a can of worms with this email but you did ask for my view and as my youngest son will testify, I never refused to answer any of his questions when he was young - they were not always the correct answers but at least i tried !!!!

  • SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

    Next week's long run you'll have some company. We are going to do it as a group (sort of... at appropriate paces) on the next training day. More details to follow soon!

    Sam - need any help??
  • Hope the job interview went well BoD - it's good you find out so quickly, fingers crossed for you.
    Hmm, local Deli - nom nom!
  • BoD - hope the interview went well! Well done on your ealry run!

    Been a bad week for me, my son has been in hospital and my middle daughter is unwell (more long term) so not been able to get out there since Monday! Hopefully a couple of miles today and try a long run early tomorow! Diet has been awful, really need to get a grip!

  • Sam - when you put it like that, maybe I'd better cut the long run for this week. Whether or not I run ten miles won't really affect my ability to run 14 miles next week - but the injury certainly would. It feels okay this morning, so I may try a few very easy miles later today.

    Unfortunately I'm getting older so scabs take longer to heal :/

    Oscarr - that's a very useful description of the shoes. Do they also have neutral/stability trail/XC shoes like the road shoes? From your description, I could do with a reasonable pair of trail shoes for a route that starts and ends on road (about 3 miles), then goes along tracks/bridal path and across some fields (3 to 10 miles).
  • Fingers crossed for you today BoD!

    Tenjiso, yes absolutely - you've got the idea

    Oscarr - yep like your descriptions. But worth pointing out that some of the new minimalist shoes also have trail/xc versions which don't have cushioning but do have lots of grip and a very low to the ground profile.

    Been swimming today - 60 lengths. I was tempted to run today after a couple of heavy coaching days but I'll do anyting to get out of swimming so decided to stick with my schedule!image

  • Good luck with the job Craig.  And wowsers that's a few early runs this week - good work!

    Sam: I have a question if that's ok?  I'm following the RW sub 5:00 plan and tomorrow it says I'm meant to do a '3M hill session or circuit', but I'm not sure what that might consist of.  I'm planning to do it at the gym for once on the treadmill for a bit of a softer surface as I've run on road for the last 3 weeks, but not sure what a hill session might consist of.  Any pointers?  Oh and just started reading your Marathon from start to finish book - very interesting read!

  • Tenjiso wrote (see)

    Oscarr - that's a very useful description of the shoes.  Do they also have neutral/stability trail/XC shoes like the road shoes?  From your description, I could do with a reasonable pair of trail shoes for a route that starts and ends on road (about 3 miles), then goes along tracks/bridal path and across some fields (3 to 10 miles).
    Not sure about the neutral/stability options in trail/XC but there is a much reduced choice compared to road shoes so maybe not.  For the route you describe you could probably use road shoes in the summer when the ground is dry and firm but when wet/soggy/muddy then you need more grip and with 3 miles on road included a trail shoe is better than a specific XC shoe (XC shoes tend to have protruding bits on the sole which could wear on the tarmac and will also not be comfortable - a trail shoe has the benefit of some grip and comfort).  Sweatshop are doing good bargains at the moment in their Jan sales. 
  • Ruth - could I ask you to comment on my tea and coffee consumption please - on average I have the following numbers of mugs per day;

    Tea - english tea with semi-skimmed milk and no sugar - 5

    Coffee - strong flavoured with semi-skimmed milk and no sugar - 3

    De-caff coffee - after dinner - with semi-skimmed milk and no sugar - 1

    I have a good balanced food diet on most days.  Thanks. 

  • Tut tut too many teas!!!image
  • Personally, I would drop the decaff! image

    Thanks for the extra shoe info.
  • That's quite a few cuppas - interesting when you stop to think about it though - hmm - I reckon I have about 5 a day in total (no sugar). I only allow myself to have one caffeine-drink a day (coffee first thing) and then I hit the decaf  tea/coffee as I fancy.  Do you have any cold drinks at all? Water/juice?
  • SB - when i worked it out i may have been a bit on the low side cos somedays i drink gallons of tea, especialy after a long run in the winter, but i think on average its the numbers i gave above - re cold drinks, i drink a lot of water after a run (500m +) and i do 5 runs a week, after that its an orange juice in the morning and a couple of cans of Guinness in the evening - before you tell me off for the Guinness image i once read that Ron Hill has had a beer every day for as long as he can remember so there !!!!
  • Louisa Setchfield wrote (see)

    Good luck with the job Craig.  And wowsers that's a few early runs this week - good work!

    Sam: I have a question if that's ok?  I'm following the RW sub 5:00 plan and tomorrow it says I'm meant to do a '3M hill session or circuit', but I'm not sure what that might consist of.  I'm planning to do it at the gym for once on the treadmill for a bit of a softer surface as I've run on road for the last 3 weeks, but not sure what a hill session might consist of.  Any pointers?  Oh and just started reading your Marathon from start to finish book - very interesting read!


    Hi Louisa, hope you manage to get this response before your session.

     I recommend trying to replicate a hilly route. So jog easy to warm up (5 mins) and then settle into your steady pace (5 mins). Set the gradient to 3-5 per cent and run for 1 minute, maintaining an even effort level as you had on the flat (ie. you might need to slow down to keep your effort level from going through the roof!) Go back to flat running when the minute is up, returning to your steady pace for 4 mins. Repeat the hill/flat bit 4 times in total. Finish with 5 mins easy jog. That should be about 3 miles. Adjust as necessary for your pace though. Hope that helps. Really pleased the book is proving useful image

  • 3 cups of tea and 1 lovely Monmouth coffee for me today!

    Anyway - time to look ahead to next week's training for Craig and everyone else on the sub 4.30 programme. We've also got the training day in Birmingham to look forward to next Saturday. (Believe me, the video will be entertaining as I careen up and down the towpath between Craig, Emma and Rosie on my borrowed Brompton bikeimage

    Craig's week 5 is pretty similar to the 4.30 Ultimate Schedule, other than some day juggling. The only difference is the long run is longer by 2 miles. This is the first time a 'fartlek' session has appeared on the prog, so thought I'd explain a bit about it. All you RW readers know it's the Swedish word for 'speedplay' I'm sure. But what should you actually do? Although it's often recommended as a good informal type of speedwork for beginners, in my experience, they often just end up not knowing what to do. I recommend planning out what you're going to do first. For example, the other night, I took my group on a lampost fartlek round the only lit streets in Rye. You had to run very easy between the first two lamposts and then speed up to tempo pace as you passed the next one and then to your 5km pace for next one, then back to easy again. There was a 4-5 min jog in between and then the same on the way back. So Craig, this is an ideal opp to try out your new revised pacesimage. You could divide it down into 3 x 1 miles and run quarter of a mile easy, quarter mile brisk, then quarter of a mile fast then quarter of a mile at 800m pace. Then back to easy for start of next mile. Or you could do it by minutes and do 5 mins easy, then a pyramid of 'fast' efforts lasting 1, 2, 3, 4 mins with equal length running easy between each one, finishing with 5 mins brisk! Or something! Just an idea. I concede that fartlek is meant to be a bit more spontaneous than this, but it gives you a framework.

    Week Five w/c 23/1/12 (26M)
    Mon Rest
    Tue 1M jog, then 3M (or 30 mins) fartlek, then 1M jog
    Wed Rest
    Thu 4M steady
    Fri 5M slow
    Sat Long run – 2 hours with last 20 mins at marathon pace. (Training day)
    Sun Rest

    Have a great weekend everyone. Happy training.
  • Folks... What a crazy week... I'm on the sofa, todays run done (6 miles at 10:59), pasta eaten with a glass of cotes du rhone next to me... Didn't get the job, but then had a withheld number call, only people I know who use those are us... Great...

    Will get back onto he thread tomorrow morning for proper replies, but thanks oscarr for the reply, good detail. Different shoes for different seasons then? Trying to decide on post marathon goals, have an October half booked and want to see a years progress on that, but wondering about summer really?

  • Phone & anger.... Let me type... You stupid... Thing...

    Funny, but this is a bit like telling everyone about my running then includes the rest of my life and the stuff going on too... I suppose it shows how central running becomes in our lives without realising it. Becomes Integral to who we are and what we do... Interesting.
  • BoDuke wrote (see)
    Phone & anger.... Let me type... You stupid... Thing...

    Funny, but this is a bit like telling everyone about my running then includes the rest of my life and the stuff going on too... I suppose it shows how central running becomes in our lives without realising it. Becomes Integral to who we are and what we do... Interesting.
    Bo - that's why we love it !!
  • Definitely Oscarr - it's nice to hear about every-one's trials and tribulations!

    For goodness sake I've been reviewing my new kit and writing made up recipes!image

  • Oscarr: "i once read that Ron Hill has had a beer every day for as long as he can remember so there !!!!"

    The trouble is, he can only remember as far back as last night!! image

    Craig: I must have missed it.. what are your new running paces that Sam mentioned? I assume you've revised them following your race last week?



  • Bad luck Craig! Hope things work out for the best as these things usually do....

    Will look forward to see how you're gonna work out your races after Paris.  I've only just come up with an annual plan that I feel comfortable with.  Basically looks like this

    Oct - Dec - No intervals but xc races (and build up to 50 mpw)

    Jan & Feb - Start intervals + xc races

    March - 10k or ½ marathon

    April & May - concentrate on 5ks

    June - 10k

    July - 10 mile

    August - ½ marathon 

    September - Marathon

    Any views? 

  • Hi Guys... Recovered from vrazt week by going into town and parting with £500 for a new oven. It was I either clean it or get a new one: not a hard decision that, bring out the plastic...

    Now down to target weight!!! 69.9kg when I jumped on the scales yesterday. Then the office manager bought pizza for everyone... Oh...  

    Back to regular early runs now as Thom is back to Nursary on Monday. That'll make him happy then... image

    Tenjiso: The paces are below.

    Slow 10.30-11

    Easy 9.45-10.30

    Steady 9-9.45

    Brisk 8.30-9

    Fast For mile reps or longer 7.40-8
    For 800m 3.40-3.50 per rep (or 7.20 to 7.40 pace per mile)

    Long run tomorrow is going to be interesting...

    SB: That's looks like some careful planning there, you building up the distance over the year and then dropping again after marathon.  Interesting... Think work might have called me last night, but if they don't that flight suit still on offer? 

    Oscarr: very much indeed. In trying not to sound too cheesy, it is love.  Forms a central part of life: food, drink, sleep, time, effort, pain, sweat and sometimes blood (when forgetting to put Bodyglide on sensitive bits...)  are all given over to it... One black coffee, no sugar and a can of Pepsi Max thus far. I don't do decaff either...doesn't have the same image

    Sam:  Saturday is going to be interesting then. I'm really looking forward to meeting up with everyone again and also going for this run with the others.  Tuesday's session will be the first time I've done fartleks, so was a bit worried about what to,  Good guide, thank you.  Think I'll start with pyramids and see how I go from there and try to be playful and not too serious.  Going to take practice to get used to varied speed at random. I can hold a pace once i've gotten used to it, but then struggle to be stable once it's changed, need to keep checking, so think this will be really useful. 60 laps? Noooooooooo That would be why triathlon is never on the cards for me... 

    Louisa: Hope you got your session in and was goo?. Not a gym member but looked at this nordic treadmill thing in the shop... Have you seen them???????? something like a 45 degree incline!!!  I could feel my legs burning and my lungs objecting just looking at it.

    Emma: And very good they are too!!! 

    MWW: So sorry to hear about that.  Hope they both get better as soon as possible. So upsetting when your children are ill image. Surprised me then first time Thom got ill, I thought I was going to explode... Did you get your long run done and did it go OK?

    Right, I'm going to pull a rose bush out in the garden now. What a Rock 'n Roll lifestyle I have... Didn't see this coming when I was 20... 

    Oh, no splits:

    Thursday

       Time     Distance Pace

    1    11:05.6    1.00    11:06
    2    17:14.7    2.00    8:37
    3    11:09.9    1.00    11:10

    Friday:

    Oh, not recorded each mile but ave pace was 10:38. Raining like hell too. 

  • Hey Craig - looks like we have similar target time for our training run - so lucky you can have me bending your ear about recepies etc for a couple of hours!image

    ... oh what's that -  you've decided to run a 7min miles instead?!image

  • 7min/mile???? No, I'll leave that one to Lee's slow runs....

    Be good to have a chat, my runs are a bit anti-social sometimes...

    Didn't realise they had put the video on the web. Rachel said I was a 'flaming wazzak' and looked a bit of an idiot... Nice...I'm also not sure you saw the same video as me, but your bum is not big and there certainly wasn't a 'muffin top' going on... My fat tummy on the other hand shows quite badly!!!
  • We are so critical about ourselves aren't we?!

    Its the chats on the long runs that keep me going - I don't go out in the evening so it is my LSR that actually provide my social life. You can have great conversations as there are no other factors (like kids) stopping the flow of conversation. I really love running with the two folks that I run with. Colleen especially (who I did my mara prep with last year) has become one of my closest friends.

    We can have a good old gossip on Saturday!image

  • Just back from wind,hail and rain at Edale took my youngest horse riding then going to pick up from Manchester airport bro in law from Spain and his wife. No running today as up to 24 miles this week but out in the morning with son in law for an hour early doors as then back to airport to collect another bro in law flying in from China! But got to get these runs in.
    Sleepy are u doing a half from Asics? I hopefully doing wilmslow in march.
    Good plan mine is less structured half in march........marathon in may half in September with some fell races in the summer as loads round here to do in the peak district.
    Off to check on this video and vain runners!!! Have a good run all tomorrow if out there.
  • None of you looked bad/silly/tubby/any other negative adjective in the video - just had a nosy! Silly billies image.  You two seemed to be the stars of it - did the others run away?

    mcs - I'm doing Fleet but had to pay for it as it was full by the time they contacted us.  They've very kindly said I can have 2 places next year instead awwwwww.  Sounds like you've a busy weekend on your hands - enjoy!

  • mcs - good to hear from you again and good luck with all the airport pickups etc.  can't help but think of you running on trails in Peak District every time i look at my trail shoes and camelbak - have a good run t'mrow everyone - I should be at final XC with SB
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