Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

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  • Me four! 

    My legs feel rubbish today or is that me transmitting excuses to them cos it's pishing it down.  Split sesh : 2 x 5 milers at the gym instead today me thinks.

    How do yours feel day to day Bo - am I just being a wuss?  I'm only doing 35 a week though doing good interval speeds so maybe it's just the speed work taking effect.

    Loving the dog excuse Bo and the fact you're in the naughty corner - told you you should have made him do a naughty lap on Saturday Sam image

  • All - i'll drop Alice at RW an email about the red page etc
  • Bo - think you mentioned the zipvit energy stuff? We got our sample box through last week (forgot to say sorry - offer in the latest RW - full page add - £16 of samples for about £5 P&P). Only tried the energy chews so far as saving the 51g energy gel for Fleet ... have to say they are truly deliciously yummy.  Getting some more of them for sure!
  • Missed that one SB off to find my mag in my work drawer!!

    I do sandwich runs, on the way to work, "work" all day then another sandwich on the way home!!

    I was amazed listening to the Marathon Talk Podcast live from Leeds that the marathon runner lady who beat Paula at the last Olympics, Tracey Morris only started running quite late on and trained round full time work on not that high a mileage......anyone listen to that?  Very humble lady obviously has bags of natural talent.

    Off to check out Zipvit. I notice that SIS are doing a belt with gels for a bundle price, though I have two bum bags you cant get many gels in them as a belt thingy.

  • If you can't find it mcs - here's the link:

    http://www.zipvitsport.co.uk/runner.html

    You get a free belt thing with it too. 

    Enjoy image

  • Thanks for that link SB. I've just ordered one.
  • Hello all,
    You all sound like you're running really well!
    I tried a sandwich run today, 1 mile warm up, 2 miles quite fast (for me anyway, prob would be recovery run for most of you!!) and 1 mile marathon pace.
    Can anyone explain where this type of run fits in, how hard should it be? Is it a bit like a threshold run with a warm up and cool down or should the middle pace be not quite that effort?
    Thanks
  • Hi Susie - it depends where you are in your schedule and what the session's purpose is.
    The middle bit could be at marathon pace, half marathon pace or 10k pace. If you are marathon training, I'd make the bit in the middle a little longer and make it MP or HMP generally - what you did is pretty much a tempo/threshold run with a warm up first. Would generally speed up through the sandwich, not slow down, too. Ie. you'd be better doing 1 mile MP then 2 miles quite fast rather than other way round!image
  • Hey Craig - I think there must be something in the air this week making dogs nuts - I just got in from my 5.5 mile speed type session and during interval number 6 a dog let loose from it's owner round bottom end of Epping Forrest and chased me for quarter of a mile before it's owner finally caught it's attention - massive great dog too!  Suffice to say that section of my run was definitely speedy! image

    And my fave new snack post run are Nakd fruit and nut bars...made completely of raw fruit and nuts and are deeeeelish, and at only 100 calories and one of my 5 a day...brilliant and yum.

    Oh - and bring back Spring...

  • Hi BoDuke:  as we discussed last weekend here is suggested race morning plan:

    •  As soon as wake up; glass of water (I would use bottled water even though EU regs now means tap water drinkable it tastes very different from the UK and new bugs in a new environment so as only there suggest for drinking use bottles water although for cleaning teeth etc tap water is fine. 
    • Cereal/ breakfast at 6.30am with usual drinks such as fruit juice? race starts at 8.45.
    • Bring water bottle down to breakfast and fill with either water, or fruit juice diluted half by water (to make an isotonic drink) then sip on this as wish.
    • 7.30am: banana & gel if wish, continue to sip on water.If use the fruit juice diluted with water make sure you have tried this and you may not need the gel if getting some extra carbs from the fruit juice.

    During race

    • Every 5km there will be water so perhaps start on first gel at 9km and then pick up some water at 10km. Use High five for first 2 hours (23g each). Suggest at one gel for hour 1& 2.
    • Hour 3 & 4 move on to ZIp vit gels (51g per gel).
    • So gels at 9km, then 19km, then 24km & 34km  or if feel this will not be enough suggest gel at 40mins, 80mins, 2 hours, 2 hours 40mins, 3 hrs 20mins, 3hrs 40mins . You need to go with what you feel has been working for you in long runs but always carry extra gel when you do a marathon incase need or you lose one.
    • Water as you feel you need but suggest every 10km (whether you feel you want it or not) make sure you have some fluid and if hot perhaps every five.
  • Me again BoDuke!

    Suggested carb loading for 3 day prior to Paris so Thursday (12th April), Friday (13th April) and Saturday (14th April) then race day plan as above.

    Breakfast: 4 x weetabix (I have emailed hotel to see if I can get breakfast buffet menu) but you can bring these with you if want to have these) with 250ml of fruit juice and 1 slice of toast with honey or jam and coffee as usual unless you are excluded if using caffeine zip gels in last 2 hours of marathon = 95-100grams if carbohydrates

    Mid Morning: 500ml fruit smoothie & large banana & cereal bar = 90-95g

    Lunch: Jacket potato with full tim of beans and 500ml of high juice/full sugar diluting cordial = 120g or if travelling pasta (120g serving) in tuberware if need with tomato based sauce & 500ml of the diluting cordial (buy other side of customs in UK) and ask a bar or go to drinking fountain to fill up empty sports bottle= 120g

    Mid-afternoon: Bagel/large roll  with banana & honey or banana and jam with 200ml glass of fruit juice or sports drink & 6 jelly babies or large jelly beans instead of sugar containing drink= 110g

    Evening meal: 150g pf pasta or rice (exclude meat/fish if feeling too full at this stage) with low fat sauce with glass of cordial/full sugar soft drink and low fat yoghurt (120g pot).= 125g carbs

    Before bed: 2 x toast with jam or honey or large bowl of cereal and glass of fruit smoothie  and 5 jaffa cakes: 100g carbs

    Estimated carbohydrates of above= 650g

    How does this feel!!image

  • Hi Folks, time for a quick catch up. Nightmare, seems that work are expecting me to do things for my pay packet at the end of each month... Gutting. image

    Ruth: The plan sounds good to me. Got it copied and saved off the forum for ease of access and will print myself a couple of copies tomorrow. I like the vipvit ones but they do need a hell of a lot of water to get them down, very dense. Decided to stay off the caffinee for a few days prior too. Gonna be interesting in France...image

    SC23: Find that the Garmin allert is really annoying after a while, but did set the partner function on so that I was aware of dropping off too much. I've been trying to keep my pace steady over each mile rather than focus on anything longer. Seems to work for me on runs over a mile. Normally... But not this weekend. 

    MWW: Good work on the half. Think that is what it's all about really. What other sport is there where we can be on the same field as our heros? Same distance, same course, just might take us a bit longer to get there. And we do this while holding down jobs, families and other stuff. Running rocks m/

    SB: Great to see you again.  If I looked comfortable, God know what I must look like tired... Getting back inside resulted in half a cow being consumed very quickly followed by half of the world's pineapple supply. Haven't been that hungry since Sunday's long run... Another naughty lap??? Harsh mate, harsh. That would have resulted in me melting inn the style of the wicked witch of the west and I'd have had to get flying monkeys to carry me round. Sample box of vipvit being ordered shortly. Make sense to me with the belt as well. Generally like to say: DOGS NOT ON LEADS ARE NOT GOOD!!!!!  Right, back to the naughty corner I go with the D hat.

    Ten and oscarr: Good job on the races. Like it. Good luck with staying healthy Ten. Have to agree with you oscarr, massages are great. The local ones are also a bit pricey too though. 

    LMD: Nice 15. I had calf pain too. Physio noted that it was coming from my lower back rather than my catf, so she loseened it up a bit and showed my the 'cat' streach to try and keep it loose. Seems to be working for me at the moment. Thanks for that Sarah, nice. 

    Louisa: Nice tune, bit of Jacko on the run, Billy Jean to put a bit of bounce into the run, little spin... Quality. Dogs are most deffo scarry, seem to be attracted to lycra and sweaty people. Got a 'nip' on the arm a few months ago and still get jumpy around them.  Pavlovian response. I like them Nakd bars too, Waitrose do fruit and nut ones too. HUuuuummmm  squashed fruit. The daffs are out, snowdrops are backing off and tulips are starting. Spring marathon here we come. Seem first blossom in the last few days too. 

    Susie: I've got a sandwich tomorrow. Never heard it called that before now, but make sense to me. Bread, quicker filling and bread again... First for me, relating food and running paces...

    Sam: Can I come out of the naughty corner now please? Normally not many dogs around for my morning runs...image

    All: there is a thread about the website issue in the bugs pages.  Hope it's being sorted, I'm trying to plan post Paris races (have to admit to being a tiny bit addicted now).

  • Bo - if you haven't done so already, i would strongly recommend that you do a trial with the 2 day carb loading diet before one of your long runs or races so you can test your stomach with it well before Paris - that way you go to Paris with a lot more confidence that all the details are covered and you are leaving nothing to chance - as the saying goes "nothing new on race day"
  • Oscarr: I don't think that Ruth's plan is very far off what I did before my last half and is also a bit of 'ramped' up normal diet for me (more high/fruit juice etc). But will have a practice before Fleet and maybe my last 20 miler. Totally agree though.

    Just got in and showered from my sandwich run. 2m easy (10:30-9:45) 4 m brisk (8:30-9:00) and 2 mile easy:

    1    10:02.3    1.00    10:02
    2    9:54.7    1.00    9:55
    3    8:45.9    1.00    8:46
    4    8:36.3    1.00    8:36
    5    8:33.1    1.00    8:33
    6    8:36.2    1.00    8:36
    7    9:45.0    1.00    9:45
    8    9:50.7    1.00    9:51

    Took me a while to get into a rhythm, cos was feeling a bit sleepy getting out the door this morning, but maile three felt really good.  Not easy, not quite a slog, but comfortably hard and satisfying to have finished as intended. 

    BTW, I went under an underpass this morning (like most mornings) and could help but picutre myself in a Garmin advert or something... Anyone else get that or am I just being strange (again as some would say)???

  • Morning all

    Bo - I have a fantasy race that I sometimes daydream about - usually during intervals -  that keeps me going so I don't think you're strange. It's probably some sort of positive visualization thing that represents your brain visualising your goals or something like that. 

    Really glad you felt better once you got going -  really impressed by your ability to vary your pace.  Looking forward to moving now and really hoping that I can find some routes that are a) reasonably flat and b) do not involve major mud (unlike here) so that I can give it a try.

    Really proud that I made myself do my 10 miles yesterday - makes me realise how much more you guys are doing - BIG UP dudes!  Had an extra 500ml of milkshake too in between runs which is maybe why I feel much less tired today.

    p.s That's a lot of food!! Enjoy image

  • Bo - know what you mean about the carb diet being a ramped up daily one but i found the biggest difference is the amount of juice you consume (OJ and Hi) compared to a normal diet and this can leave you bloated - Ruth says a little bloating is normal but last time i did it i went a bit overboard and felt bloated for the first 6 miles of a HM and would not want to have done that in prep for a full marathon so l learned then what my carb loading limit is and am now fully prepared for my big day.  It's these little things that you need to be fully confident with.

    Got to say that in writing the above para i've got a tingly excitement about my race and its not until 6th May - bring it on !!

    Your underpass experience is a great example of positive thoughts on the run - i sometimes get into a really good pace on a training run and start daydreaming that i'm charging for the line in an olympic race - great fun and totaly off the wall but it dose make you feel great.  So, carry on mate - we can all dream!!!

  • I've printed off Ruth's carbo load diet above and will now go and <ahem> digest the information.
  • As I mentioned before, during the race on Sunday my Garmin 305 leaked water inside the display panel. The watch still worked, but was a pain to read.

    I was concerned that there would be worse problems if I didn't dry the watch, but the water showed no signs of going anywhere. So, after a bit of research I put the watch inside a ziploc bag and covered it with uncooked white rice. The rice is supposed to draw out the moisture. I popped this in the airing cupboard and in just over a day the water has dried and the display looks fine.

    No, it's not April 1st. I just thought I'd share imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif' />

  • Ten - what did the slow cooked rice taste like?
  • Nice share Ten appreciate that.........imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif' /> Must do some printing of the menu larkey above thanks to Ruth., though having run eight miles yesterday starving hungry so eat all the time when ever I see food I eat or so it seems. Having a rest day then five tomorrow and five a side footie which I still play once a month but very carefully and usually most of the time in goal as rather dangerous for tearing calf muscles etc!!!

    Nice pacing Craig a great example to me to be more disciplined, well done have a good un.

  • Hello Craig
    Definitely allowed out the naught corner now after that pristine pacing on the sandwich run! See, you CAN do it!
    What a beautiful day for... Er, lying on the floor to do rehabs. Would put sad face now but don't know where they are on my phone. 'nother sad face!!
  • imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/surprised_smiley.gif' />Get well soon Sam..............keep smiling it helps they say.......imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/surprised_smiley.gif' />
  • All - not sure if this was the thread that wanted feedback from my Sports Massage today but here goes.

    Overall, well worth it (£30) and in an hour and a half my legs and lower back received a complete overhaul and we identified some issues to correct.  Nothing serious at all but by fixing them i will be a lot better in the future and will ward off future injuries.  My issues are;

    1.  My right knee-cap is out of line and is pushed slightly to the right - caused by tightness in the ITB area not being compensated for by a weak inner quad muscle.  Solution is massage to ITB and some strengthening exercises for the inner quad.

    2.  My right buttock (glute) is not engaging effectively enough which puts strain on the hamstring.  Solution is a set of glute strengthening exercises with more emphasis on the right side.

    We also went through my current exercise routine and modified how i do some of them (e.g. bridge) and removed one completely.

    Have planned to go for sessions every 2 weeks now until my marathon.

    p.s. it did hurt !!!!!

  • Thanks for the pacing compliments folks, see I can do more than just be silly with dog attack runs. Have to admit to finding this morning's run a struggle and geting tired now.  Be OK after a good long kip tonight... and staying in bed till mid afternooon.

    SB: It's nice to have those daydreams is it not. I'm sometimes in New York in the 70s all Marathon Man style or sometimes running over a beach somewhere sunny and not in Peterborough, on a cycle path at 6:00 in the morning with slight drizzle...

    oscarr: Sounds like the massage went well. Might treat myself in one of the taper weeks coming up, see how it goes. Thanks for the juice advice too, did find myself needing to be closer to a loo while loading, lots of water passing through imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/dont_tell_anyone_smiley.gif' />

    mcs: Hope the football went well and no injuries? Me too with the food. Have to admit to being back on the NRT due to wanting to eat EVERYTHING!!!!! Keeps it under control a bit. 

    Ten: Great advice on the Garmin, so woudl't have throught of that. Should that work with oter devices too?

    Sam: Thanks for letting me out of teh corner, was reminding me of school. Hope the rehab helps imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif' />

    Right todays splits then off to work, meeting, mates (his girlfriend has siatica and not been out for six weeks) and then long long sleep..

    1    10:57.2    1.00    10:57
    2    10:41.2    1.00    10:41
    3    10:39.7    1.00    10:40
    4    10:48.4    1.00    10:48
    5    10:39.6    1.00    10:40
    6    10:38.2    1.00    10:38

    this was a slow 6, which is meant to be between 10:30 and 11:00 Ave heart rate was 138

  • Good on ya oscarr - it'll all be worth it in a day or two - make sure you keep drinking plenty - it really does help to flush out the toxins that may have been released from your muscles.

    Bo - loving your daydreams - one of mine is a memory from my days running in the Cairngorms. It's when it was frosty and breathing felt like drinking chilled water. I had the trail to myself and was flying on a slightly downhill section.  Oh how I wish every day felt like that!

    Well done you on making it through the week - happy sleeping - am gonna be having a few early nights myself for the next week or so! Has anyone else heard the saying that you should have an extra hours sleep for every hour of exercise you do? 

    I'm borrowing my friend's dog tomorrow at the parkrun (just for fun).  Poor thing - I'm not sure I'll be able to keep up with him but I want to have a go with a dog that's used to it before Rascal gets a turn. 

  • thanks Bo/Sleepy - another impressive paced run Bo, i find it harder to get the pacing right (slow enough) on the shorter slow runs so well done.  Won't tell you what my dream was part way through the leg massage !!!  Have started putting out a jug of 1.5 litre of water in the kitchen each morning to get through in the day to help me keep hyrdrated better during the high mileage section so this should help the flushing.

    Tempo run today - 2m warmup, 4m @7:40 then 2m cooldown followed by exercises.

    Have a great weekends running everyone.

  • Craig - the ziploc bag and rice trick is supposed to work for iPods, mobiles, cameras, and so on. I found a reports and some videos when I was researching a solution on the internet.

    I've got a rest day today, then will be attempting 18 miles tomorrow. I've got a horrible feeling I'm going to struggle a bit tomorrow.
  • Naughty Oscarr.........nice pacing Craig continued enjoy your sleeping and grub.

    Did 8 miles this am into work a touch speedy but okay and lovely day here in the Peak District. Enjoyed the shower and now need a bacon sandwich, not that I have one, only a banana!! I can dream, dream about food alot serious problem.........imagehttps://us.v-cdn.net/6027274/uploads/forum/smilies/smile_smiley.gif' />

    Mate round for tea tonight with his two young lads then we go play five a side indoors, my wife does them a roast.  His wife died last year of Hodgkins Lymphoma only 36 years old, the lads are only 10 and 12 so its been very tough with alot of tears as you can imagine. Anyway they are slowly getting to grips with life and the young lads love to burn off energy and emotions playing footie. They are good.

    Enjoy every day folks................

    We can do anything we want as long we stick to it long enough. Thought from the calendar today........

  • mcs - today's calendar thought just about sums up my marathon journey !!
  • Oscarr: is the water trick working?

    SB: really enjoyed the sleep in this morning. Might have an early might and back to the daydreaming long run.

    Ten: hope today's run goes well. Thanks for the rice tip! Might have saved me a fortune in damaged goods.

    mcs: echoing oscarr's sentiment on yesterday's quote.

    Think the website might be working again, got a notification earlier from Lee's thread. In the car (OH driving) and enroute to Garden Centre... Pea gravel to help drainage in the lawn... What a rock and roll lifestyle I have!
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