Talkback: ASICS Target 26.2 Team: Craig

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  • Oh yeah and random fact of the day - did you know it's easier to peel a banana from the bottom - you squeeze the black bit and it pops open and then peel as normal - apparently it's how monkeys do it! image
  • SB - now i've got images of you sitting in a tree surrounded by a load of monkeys teaching you the correct way to eat bananas !!  Tee Hee....

    BoD  - that's a good interval session and those 800 split times are impressively fast - an average pace of 7:24 which is 3:40 for 800m - if you were doing a lot more of these, say a session of 6 or more 800's, you would be targeting around  4:20 for each 800 so last nights were quick.  Can see Sam taking a slashing pen to your targets!!

    Like the Sunday treat you have with your evening meal - a couple of beers and some wine on a Sunday evening is sommething I look forward to during the training in the week - for me, you have to keep your sanity as well as your fitness!!

  • Just a quick check-in before head out for a quick coffee and then to board the train home. I've got your programme with me Craig, so I'll have a look at your times and goals and let you know what I come up with.

    Oscarr is right about your 800s, but rather than using those times to knock a massive chunk off your marathon goal, I will look at them within the context of the 5 mile result, overall mileage etc. Often we think that if the goal pace is x but we can go faster, we should go faster but it's very often not the case. No need to go faster than you have to , if you see what I mean (as fatigue increases and so does injury risk). But I suspect we'll be making them a bit quicker, anyway!

    Tenjiso - so sorry to hear about your mishap. I would use ice on it for about 8 minutes every 2-3 hours if you can (or even twice a day). Don't put ice directly on skin - a damp tea towel is a good barrier. Have you got full range of motion in the area or too painful? Gentle movement/v gentle stretching can help the healing process. Avoid activities that irritate it. Hopefully Sarah C will chip in soon with some expert physio advice!

  • Hi Sam, thanks for the advice. I have got a full range of motion and will start the ice treatment as soon as I finish typing this reply. The feeling is more of a dull ache than any significant pain.

    Would running slow/recovery pace make matters worse (assuming there is no great discomfort), or would that likely make matters worse?
  • Great work Craig!  And definitely not boring.  In fact I had a similar thought this morning re feeling smug as I ran 6 miles of my 10 mile journey to work in the very cold dark morning...but was gloriously sunny when I got to work and the gasps from my colleagues as I walked into the office in my gear was SO worth it image.

    SB: love the banana opening tip - think I might try that right now.

  • First ice treatment done. Though, the wife wasn't too happy when she found where I had "hidden" the tea towel. I told her I've been doing this all week image
  • oscarr - that's why you never see me at the start of a xc - I'm still climbing down LOL!

    Get well soon Tenjiso.

    Louisa - it works eh!  Think it might have to do with peeling with, as opposed to against, the grain of the skin.

    I've just done my first intervals - not very many (7) or very far (1 minute) but my fastest since about oooooh 2005 and still didn't quite get to my target HR though felt very comfortable.  Best plan to hit that + button some more next week!  Happy, happy! I think I'm going to enjoy following Stu Mittelman's training plan (from his book called Slow Burn)

     imageimageimage

  • Sleepy: on the banana front. That is indeed a very amusing idea. Packed one for lunch, so will try it. If I make a mess, I'm blaming you, I've already got a bad rep on the children's ward for dropping a couple of cups of coffee last week... Was abuout to try it and the response was: what are you doing with the banana? We've only got 4 left for the baby...

    oscarr: thanks mate. The Garmin got bored of telling me to slow down after the second rep... Got to be careful as the objective is to get to the start line and then over the finish, still finding the prospect a bit scary... Repmirage to be second fave session of the week now and don't want to go over the top. Great for working off stress, have to think about maintaining form and associating with the activity, something I struggle with on LSRs. Re: treats, I've got to have the occasional glass and odd unhealthy thing cos I totally adore wine and massively cut down on alcohol intake: all work and no play etc...

    Sam: whatever you decide is good with me. Want to finish... (and I've never been to Paris, so I really want to get there too). Think I'm really happy about the fact I've run a distance at sub 8:00. The thought of joining the RAF keeps coming up in my head and the 1.5 mile run entry criteria for a 35 year old is 11:00... Can do that now... If I wanted... Enjoy the train journey home.

    Tenjiso: still got fingers crossed for you!
  • BoD - we have a flying suit here you can try on if you like! The only thing Ben's flying these days is a desk! LOL! Can't believe you'd steal fruit from a baby - crikey goodness!

    Back to the psychology - came across MCBT the other day - have you heard about that?  Probably in your job - but I found it really intriguing... For those who don't know it stands for mindful cognitive behavioural therapy and basically the gist of it is that when your mind starts telling you negative things you focus on something that roots you to the here and now as most negative things are based on the future (e.g. I can't keep going at this pace - how do you know you haven't tried yet? / it's too far - again you'll never know unless you try). So you concentrate on for example your breathing - you don't judge it or try to count or anything - just be aware of it and thereby divert your brain from worrying about something that hasn't happened (yet) and/or maybe never will. Once you stop wibbling you can probably motivate yourself better. Well that's roughly what I understood anyway...

    G&T / A sherry cask whisky for me thanks - so who's getting the drinks in? image

  • SamMurphyRuns wrote (see)

    Oscarr is right about your 800s, but rather than using those times to knock a massive chunk off your marathon goal, I will look at them within the context of the 5 mile result, overall mileage etc. Often we think that if the goal pace is x but we can go faster, we should go faster but it's very often not the case. No need to go faster than you have to , if you see what I mean (as fatigue increases and so does injury risk). But I suspect we'll be making them a bit quicker, anyway!


    Hi Sam - that's a great point - it's one i am convinced has been a contributor to poor race performance in the past, running too fast in training intervals simply because I can - I like doing yasso 800's and build up from 6 to 10 over the weeks but have done them all at 3:20 to 3:30 pace when I should be doing 3:50 to 4:00.  Think this does risk fatigue over a long period.

    SB - will try "bottom opening" next time am up a tree - amazing how things catch on!!

  • Thanks for the well wishes guys.

    Remind me to use an umbrella when walking under any trees if Oscarr is around image
  • Tenjiso - you could always use your wife's tea towel ?

    Brilliant 4mile undulating run in crisp clear skies - good to be alive!!

  • Got a banana on my desk and am tempted to squeeze it from the bottom.

    Just have and it works! Good tip Sleepy, will show my yougest lad (5) how to do that as he normally struggles.

    Nice 800 reps BoD, showing a good bit of speed!

  • Always peel my bananas that way!!! Just about to peel an orange any tips Sleepy??

    Flip freezing here............no central heating in the office here relying on  an old blower heater. Another four miler tonight with some speedy miles in there as I did a three to work quickish this morning. Wooly hat and gloves. Good speed there Craig keep at it. I gave up alcohol between Oct 1 and January but have had a couple of ciders since then but come Feb 6th going back on the no alcohol thing, I find my legs are heavy after red wine, not sure if its real or a negative mental thing......but I keep my weight around 11.12 if I stay off alcohol.

    Jacket spud for lunch again to warm me up. Thank goodness for a microwave in work. 

    Good to be alive as Oscar says.image

  • Oranges - yeah - leave as much white pith on as possible - that's where loads of the goodness is!

    Sorry it's cold up your way!  I'm snuggled in my study - think the 270 pages my printer is churning off is generating a heat all of its own!

    I agree - alcohol definitely does have an effect on your training.  I'm usually fine if I just have the one on a weekend evening though! Two or three and I'm not quite my sprightly self!

    Good to be alive - couldn't agree more - was thinking the same thing when I was just out walking Rascal! Gorgeous day here!

    Right back to it - have a good afternoon all!

  • Tried the "bottom" banana thing and ended up with a very squashed piece of fruit !! will give it one more go and if no joy then i will go back to being a homo sapien (wife now questioning that condition in the first place!!)

  • Why do I feel so much more hungry when I don't exercise? It's not going to help my weight loss! :/

    Tomorrow I'm going to do weight training (upper body only!) and continue with ice/stretching treatment on the groin strain.

    Oscarr - the tea towel is in the wash image
  • Five home with head torch in freezing weather. Asics Kayano so comfy up to eight miles in them today, they're a touch narrow in the middle of foot but looking good in speedy blue!
    just been teaching my ten year old daughter to play chess that's interesting! Games like that are rare these days but she seems to be learning well.
  • SB: Decided not to steal the banana from my baby, would have been too difficult... I keep thinking about the RAF police... I know, it's a bit wrong really. With regards to CBT, that's the basic principle, all about self-talk and negating the negative thinking (and emotions) that can dampen motivation. It's really useful for short term improvements, including one off things (sessions), short term planning (get to the end of the week) or slightly longer term (tour month race training). Some research suggests that the change can be short lived, however and there is a need to reinforce the learning to the point that is can be automatic. G/T is is then, with lime and not lemon though... And only the odd one.

    oscarr: it is indeed good to be alive! Running through the Fen yesterday to a burnt orange sunrise over a huge horizon... Nice. 

    mcs: it is so much easter to keep the fat off if you say away from booze. You seen the calories in a pint??? 200+ So depressing. Think I'm gonna go for spud and beans for lunch too today. And porridge for breakfast. And the Kayarnos are great looking shoes are they not. I'm really liking the Evos now, got a wider fitting than I'm used to, but settled in them and are a great pair of high mileage shoes. Still swapping them with old pair though, just to ensure they both last longer...

    Tenjiso:  I know what you mean about appetite when not training, got a rest day today and going to have to watch myself... Good luck with the strain

    Going to try the banana trick in a second, but yesterdays food. I was in hospital with my kid and bang on daily target with the exercise... image

    Raw - Banana, 1 Medium    105
    Oat So Simple - Golden Syrup Sachet With 180ml Semi Skimmed Milk, 36 g sachet    216 
     
    Lunch
    Generic - Ham Sandwich With Mustard, 1 sandwich    240   
    Walkers - Salt & Vinegar Crisps (34.5g), 1 packet    181   
    Sausage Roll, 1 Sausage Roll    360 image
     
    Dinner
    Chicken Shish With Salad, Pitta and Chilli Sauce, 1 Large    476
    Deep Fried Chips, 1 serving    312
    Mushrooms Breaded, 5 mushrooms    100

    Snacks
    Tracker - Roasted Nut Bar, 26 g    126

    The shocking thing is that the Shish kebab is quite healthy with grilled chicken and loads of salad...

    Off to work to see if I've got a job interview tomorrow... image 

  • Forgot to mention that I managed to use my Asics voucher in the end - bought a pair of Lahar trail shoes in prep for the Lakeland Trail Marathon in July - really comfy.  My addidas XC shoes would certainly not carry me 26.2 miles so had to invest anyway.  Wanted to try Inov8 shoe (thanks mcs) but they didn't have my size - the Asics shoe has gel cushioning etc. Got the bit between my teeth now for trail prep and Sweatshop have a great deal on this week doing Camelbaks at half price so will go and try one on.

    Not tried the banana thing yet!

    Tenjiso - hope the strain is easing - give it that extra day before running again just to make sure

    Craig - great diet - about 2000 cals which is great

    Intervals for me today (4X1mile) - no hills this week as a break and final XC event this Sunday

  • Tenjiso wrote (see)
    Hi Sam, thanks for the advice. I have got a full range of motion and will start the ice treatment as soon as I finish typing this reply. The feeling is more of a dull ache than any significant pain. Would running slow/recovery pace make matters worse (assuming there is no great discomfort), or would that likely make matters worse?


    Hi Tenjiso, hope the strain is healing well. My advice would be to let your body guide you. Start with walking for a good few minutes to raise muscle temperature and then, if you feel able, try a few steps of running. ANY sign of discomfort in that area, just go back to walking and leave it another day or two.  If it feels OK, then still limit to a very short, easy run and carefully stretch out afterwards.

    Great idea to do some upper body strength work - keeps you fit, and keeps you focused.

  • Hello Craig

    I've had a look at your training paces and race result and revised your paces accordingly. Let's see how this feels for the next fortnight. Don't want to push you too hard but certainly don't want to hold you back either! Your race performance puts you closer to 4 than to 4.30 in terms of marathon time but I am not completely discounting your half marathon time from October either (yet!image) so you're in the 4-4.20ish range right now.

    Slow 10.30-11

    Easy 9.45-10.30

    Steady 9-9.45

    Brisk 8.30-9

    Fast For mile reps or longer 7.40-8
    For 800m 3.40-3.50 per rep (or 7.20 to 7.40 pace per mile)

    Everyone else following the sub 4.30 schedule - please do not feel you have to up your paces in alliance with Craig! The paces you are currently running are on target for a sub 4.30 marathon. If, however, they are feeling too slow overall (not just the 'slow/easy' runs) you might consider upping them a little. Try it for a couple of weeks and if you start to feel more tired/more niggles, then revise again.

    Finally, just to warn you Craig that Week 5 might be juggled around abit - we're in the process of planning the training day schedule, so will let you know what we come up with image

  • Thanks for the help Sam. I'll do my upper body workout today, then tomorrow I'll follow your advice to the letter. Fingers crossed!

    In the meantime, I'm still regularly applying a gel ice pack and taking Ibuprofen. It seems to help.
  •  Agree Edinburgh is very nice (spend more than half my life there and done a lot of miles on the streets/parks and hills of Edinburgh!)

    BoDuke- try and avoid bacon/gammon type of meats and go for lean white meats such as chicken/turkey and when you have  red meat  (twice a week is sufficent) aim for less processed types such as lean mince, lamb, steak etc. Your salt intake can be high and this is not help by processed meats such as bacon!
  • Tenjiso wrote (see)
    Why do I feel so much more hungry when I don't exercise? It's not going to help my weight loss! :/ Tomorrow I'm going to do weight training (upper body only!) and continue with ice/stretching treatment on the groin strain. Oscarr - the tea towel is in the wash image


    You have more time to think about food! image

    hope groin is on the mend.

  • Hi peps.

    Just a really quick one: been out for today's run already... Got an internal job interview at nine, so been really busy. Not having to go back to hospital with little 'un, some stress removed... But got a meeting tonight... Will get back to you all ASAP...

    Get to try my new suit on too!
  • ooooh check you out smart boy!  Good luck today image
  • All the best for the interview, how did it go?
  • Hope the interview went well.

    This evening I followed Sam's advice and started with a slow walk, then very gradually built up the speed until I reached close to 11:00 minute mile pace for a few minutes. I wasn't sure if I felt some aching, or whether it was just paranoia, but I erred on the side of caution and began slowing back down.

    Two miles in 28:50 image - my marathon is going to take forever!

    I followed the session with some light stretching image

    If it feels OK tomorrow, I might try a few miles at slow pace. I'm really hoping I can do a ten mile run this weekend, because it would mean that I have only had to shuffle my schedule around a bit (switched with 14 mile run, which I can do next week instead).
  • Tenjiso - sounds like you've cracked it - well done
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