Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
BERLIN Marathon 2012
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Ally - 3hrs is 4:16 per km
Stunner - nice to see you kept the intervals going. Question though - what recovery are you doing in between each? Oh, and how's the leg?
Hi baljc and thanks for the tips. At the track tonigh I was chatting with a guy that has done Berlin 3 times and each time had a mare at the start with congestion or not even being able to get to his pen due to vast numbers of people. Any tps in your experience?
Ally - that's some fine running there, following a decent Mara time with a 16miler! Just don't going pushing so hard you get injured so close now! Your pace plan seems good but remember Berlin is the fastest course in the world so if you're going to go sub 3, nows the chance. Aim for 6.45 - 6.52 mm. You don't want to miss out by seconds by doing 6.55
TD - I thought I was a geek but that chart is off the scale. Don't even know where to begin with that one!
Andy - how's the knee feeling? Are you strapping it up? I can highly recommend The Cho-Pat knee straps -they got me round Dam last year with a bad case of runners knee in the weeks before.
SSLHP - You seriously need new shoes.
Do I need to source a sports physio?
I'm due to do Boro 10k Sunday but am not sure I can even do intervals with the club tomorrow night. I got some tennis balls at Tesco in the way home (!) and have been rolling away. (I've been avoiding alcohol so no corks in the house currently!)
I know - I need to find the RW plantar fasciitis forum...!
Looks like we have an injury club building up here (and not a happy one!) - I nominate TD as honorary president
Iain - don't think it would do any harm. I'm so glad I went yesterday as my guess as to what was wrong or how to go about fixing it was way off the mark. After I'd gone I couldn't believe I'd asked myself beforehand if I should make the appointment or not
Johnas - I ended up doing no recovery between intervals, just had them all jammed together... which makes them not intervals, I know! I thought about maybe adding in a separate intervals session if the straight tempo built up nicely (my goal was to get up to 5 mile tempo, which I did on Thursday, my last run to date) but of couse that's gone for now. Went to the pool tonight for a 30min swim, I could feel the nerve but didn't push it too much and ended at the 30min mark when I felt a slight strain come on behind the knee. It's a start anyway and the leg is feeling much better than it was the past few days, even if things are certainly not feeling normal. I think the physio's nerve massage helped as well, am also doing a fair amount of physio exercises on it. Will get on the bike in the gym tomorrow and see how I feel, will try 20 mins if I can get there without pain.
Ally - some very strong running, well done.
TD - we've run basically the same mileage since May, albeit for different reasons! My total training mileage last year was about 140 miles which I was looking to push up to about 160 this year, but of course there's a reasonable amount of miles over on the bike as well. Nothing quite like your monster cycles though. Glad to hear you're thinking of turning up at the start line anyway.
15 miles done with 11 at mp, really good session with my HR bang on 155,even sneaked a 6.13 for my last mile.
Ally- The missus has made my mind up re the ultra, she's worried about my health,large left ventricle,HR etc, so she's put her foot down,I'm not running it
Got to go back to the doctors on Monday for my test results again
Iain- Sorry to hear about your PF a few people I run with have had it, hope you get a speedy recovery.
Jonah - thanks, hope it goes well Monday. Sounds like you're in great shape.
Strunner - Cheers, I'll ask around but I suspect it's going to be difficult to shift; and it seems there's not a lot the physio can do - and I don't fancy steroid injections!
Awesome running too. MP paced runs are the hardest to do in my book. Looks like you nailed it! 6.13 is your MP?
IM - you're not alone. I've had it in my right foot for 6 weeks now too. Very mild case hence the cork in the shower and only really bad first thing in the morning. I'm just doing plenty of stretching and self massage which helps too.
Strunner - good luck tonight mate. Keep the legs going over and you should lose minimal fitness.
Off to physio for me this morning pre work for fortnightly massage. After 10 miles yesterday including a 5x5 min threshold session, looking forward to it
Johnas - no massive tips for the congestion other than do try to get to bag drop off about an hour before the start. Should give you plenty of time to fight your way to the pen and have a last minute loo stop!
Johnas - I wish, that last 6.13 mile was the only one.
It's a 15 mile route we do every week,start off steady and build you to marathon HR, it's a really good session because you can see the progress weekly 155 hr = around the 6.30 to 6.35 mark, so with a good taper I will not be a million miles away from 2.50ish.
Ally - also hoping to go out at around 6:50 pace and just hang on at the end - at Amsterdam last year i was aiming for 7:20 pace and got to half way sub 1:30 and was really comfortable but also shocked at the time, eventually cracked and dropped to 8m miling by the end but it got me a PB, feeling a lot stronger this year so will just try the same - want 3:10 to get good for age and I think its in there somewhere although i think there is something in having run the course before, that was my second Amsterdam race so i knew what to expect especially towards the end when it gets tough, whereas this is my first Berlin.
Johnas - left knee is really sore, thought you only got runners knee at the start of training, not after months of hard training!! Think it started when i did a six miler the other weekend chasing a mate on a bike who was shouting out the miles per hour i was doing - averaged 8.9mph btw. Now it hurts when going downstairs, walking around after sitting - the ususal symptoms. Can run through it with some Ibuprofen ok but its just worrying, might try the roller if it is the IT band causing it as there was a little tightness around my outer thigh yesterday.
Any previous Berlin marathon runners know if the showers after the the finish are worth using?
Iain - my best tip for PF would be freezing a 500 ml water bottle and rolling it under your foot for as long as you can bear it! And wear really sensible supportive shoes during the day - green superfeet insoles were good for me. I had PF a few years ago, took a while to get rid of it but it seems to be ok now (touch wood). You can get all kinds of night splints to stretch it out while you're asleep too, but I think icing and lots of stretching are more helpful.
baljc - you mention you cannot get south of the Brandenberg gate - my hotel is the Novotel Am Tiergarten which is at around the 2-3 mile point of the race near the Zoo - so does this mean that after finishing i will have to find a subway as i cannot go down towards where we started from?
Jonah - looking like you're on target then. HR isn't something I've experimented with - might dig out the HR monitor and give it some use over the coming weeks to see for myself. Are you running solo or with mates at Berlin?
Andy - runners knee can def be a symptom of overuse. RICE is always good, elevate as much as possible but more than anything, support the knee as much as possible either through the Cho-Pat straps or simple strapping to support the patella. I was shown the following way but reacted to the tape, hence moving to Cho-Pat straps.
Johnas- I'm the only one running it from our club, so it looks like a solo run for me, but if anyone wants to run at a similar pace that would be good.
AndyC - Runner's Knee can be easily misdiagnosed. Are you sure the pain is in the knee itself and not maybe referred pain from a quad muscle? A Trigger Point in the Quads can make it seem like the knee is hurting. Suggest you do a finger tip search for muscular pain anywhere in your thigh. And specific points of pain, attack with your fingers, giving a really hard self-massage on the precise spot. Sometimes knee pain can disappear very quickly after this!
strunner - thanks for the nomination but I prefer not to be associated with an injury club right now. I prefer to think of myself as having moved out of the rehabilitation clinic and thinking about becoming a day patient in the sports science lab. Less generous people might suggest 'escapee from the psycho wing' but I say, 'not until proven in a court of law'.
Would love to run today but am rigidly sticking to my rule of not running on consecutive days. So I rode my bike to work this morning and will see if i can get out for an hour or two this evening.
Iain - a bit of rest with your PF sounds like it would help. If you catch it early, even a few days rest from training can move you back to a stable condition.
andyc209 - you should be fine and apologies for any confusion. What I meant was when you finish you run down Unter den Linden to the Brandenberg Gate and then through it onto Strasse des 17 Juni. The finish funnel then takes you into the Park to the northside of Strasse des 17 Juni by the Bundestad so if you're hotel is south of that road you have to effectively cross Strasse des 17 Juni/Unter den Linden which is closed as being part of the race route. To get to the other side of that which is the south side of Strasse des 17 Juni/Unter den Linden (you should be fine as your hotel is on the north side and you should be able to walk back to it along the Tiergarten paths) you need to go under an underpass which is what took me some time to find. The underpass is on Unter den Linden just the other side of the Gate as you walk back to it from the finish area.
TD - the pain is all around the kneecap - particularly around the bottom - the tenderest part is the indent to the side of the knee on the outer side. Deffo no main pain from thigh but i did feel tightness on the outer side of my leg yesterday. I can run on it but its painful after a run in particular. It is similar to something i have had in my early days of running and given i have maxed mileage and speed lately i am sure its just overuse injury, i think the reduction in miles during taper and a little rest may help this 38 yo battered body!
anyone worked out what pen they are in? Looking at the details online it seems to be the following based on previous times:
A 2:20 - 2:40
B 2:40 - 2:50
C 2:50 - 3:00
D 3:00 - 3:15
E 3:15 - 3:30
F 3:30 - 3:50
G 3:50 - 4:15
H 4:15 - or greater
I am pen D
F
SSLHP - dude you gotta get rid of that moniker!
SM - Thanks for that conversion. I'll try and get my km head on - it always seems longer measured in km! - and aim for 4:10. And I'll try and remember to turn autopause and autolap off this time.
Andy - I did Amsterdam in 2010 with a dodgy knee (ITBS-related in the pre-foam roller days) and will have another crack when I can. Berlin should be just as flat, and I'm hoping there will be a similar musical accompaniment.
TD - That graph looks pretty, but I have no idea what it is telling me. I'm going to have a read up on TRIMP.
Jonah8 - I guess if you hold off on the ultra then you can go all out in Berlin. I hope Monday goes well for you and just confirms that you are healthy and superfit.
For anyone injured - There is still lots of time to recover well as we have 32 days to go. Although it might seem frustrating, a reduction in mileage at this point can often aid the taper. Physios are very valuable at this stage.
It is very useful to read about some of the logistics - cups and aid station crowds, closed underpasses and busy start corrals. How can I check my start zone? I can't see anything clearly on my confirmation printout. Going of Andy's table, I should be in D.
Is anyone doing the Saturday Breakfast run? The missus wants a bit of the Berlin limelight so we might jog that together...
Jonah - I could be up for an RW team effort on the sub 2.50 front (aka, tap into your experience for approx 26.2 miles!)
Ally - I'll be doing the Breakfast Run. Looks fun and you get the chance to run in the Olympic Stadium. Nice. Also, top tip on turning off the Autolap & Autopause function off! Nothing worse than relying on your Garmin to find out you actually missed your target goal. I just hope the km markers are easy to see!
Having checked my email confirmation, it states your last marathon time on there so I'm assuming that's how your pen is decided.
Must remember and plan it for next year..,
Johnas- I'll know nearer the time if I'm in sub 2.50 shape, if so it would be a pleasure to run with you.
Please try and use your HR monitor, it is a fantastic bit of kit,I use mine for all my marathons
Have a look on the VLM website go to the results page and put my name in and you will see how even paced you can run using one.
stephen jones stockport harriers
I had my heart strap on but had deliberately set my watch to not show the info. I carried on at a slower pace until km23 and dropped out. Just felt utterly drained, defrost not right. My HR data showed I had been running between 94-99% of MHR. Which is certainly too high for a mara. Best I've ever achieved was an avg of 89%.
Now I won't run without being able to see my HR. It was a wise decision to pull out of that race, my only ever DNF.
Johnas, Ally. That graph is the most meaningful analysis of my running data that I have. It shows the big picture of how hard I've been working and how fit I am right now, with trend. If confused, just look at the purple area and read it as Fitness Index.
Cracking cycle ride tonight. Mashed up a few hills and my lungs feel like they've been used as catapult elastic. Lovely.
Did 10km bike at the gym and happy to say there were no tears. Don't want to push it in a single session but will probably go back tomorrow and also to the pool. It's amazing, 6 days away from running and it feels like far more.
Iain - I'm G as well; not to put too fine a point in it, what is the urination situation? Is it a scramble for portaloos, watering the bushes, or simply trying to avoid watering other runners? I usually take on too much water at the start and have to stop 2 or 3 miles in so could do without it.
Last year I started near the back, the elites go off, a pause of about 10 mins then the lesser mortals are allowed to proceed, the first mile is then through a wood, plenty of trees to water, there were also plenty of portaloos around, but the germans male and female seem to go anywhere with no inhibitions.
I'd echo Happy's comments. I've no idea what the situation was for the first few miles but the first mile is through the Tiergarten - therefore much foliage to cover. There are many loos dotted about. I started way back and when I (really) needed to use them, at about 5 miles, they were still usable and indeed in good order. There are huge queues for the loos right by the baggage drop - but many trees on the way to your pen.
Happy9053 - what's the significance of the 9053? I'm IM2 as another IM got there first... Are there that many happy people - I hope so!