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Hi Cat....well I can only dream of a pace of 8.50 for an 18 miler....!!!! Well done you!!!...I managed a pace of 10 on Saturday for my 18 miles....!!!! yikeeees..........and that was without a cold!!!......I am staying away from everyone who may even be slightly contagious as the fear of getting sick at this point of my training......!! wahhhh....but its not a good ploy as a nurse!!!!.....haaa my poor patients!!!!.....sorrrrryyyyy!!!!!......
And yes super busy which is why so quiet.....this work and children thing really gets in the way of training!!!!.......
Yehhhhh....well done PC.....that's fab!!!!....I can only dream of 1 hr 48!!!..... a big HOORAHHHHH for the helpers!!!!!......and the next race is...?????......
Sam and Ruth......any food in Paris sounds good to me!!!!.....so you tell me what to eat and Ill eat it!!.....
Slight amendment with this weeks long run Sam.....I have explained in email.....but i did it yesterday instead of today as I didn't think I could miss my nieces christening for a run!!!....my family may never have spoken to me again!!!...ummmmmm.....
Ok so this weeks plan….I bailed on posting it last week due to time constraints!!!!......
Monday - cross train
Actual - 40 minute cycle……beautiful sunshine and a grumpy teenage daughter…..I will get her out of bed and off facebook and out in the fresh air……I’m sure one day she willl thank me for bullying her!!!!......
Tuesday - 5 mile comfortable
Ok so running up the hills not so comfortable…..but one up there its very comfortable!!!!......Had to run faster as it was getting dark and I got a bit scared being up in the middle of nowhere on my todd!!!!.....just incase there was a random sheep or wolf waiting to stalk a lonely runner out in the countryside!!!!!....you never know!!!!.....
Was pretty amazing though watching the sunset over Arundel Castle with only the sheep for company……that’s what running is all about to me!!....
Actual - 5 miles time - 49.15 average pace 9.51
Wednesday – Speed
So a slight deviation……not the speed session Sam had planned!!!....Sorry Sam….. but after a busy 13 hour shift…my brain would not comprehend figuring out a speed session….so I opted to just run instead……no thought process required….. I wont make a habit out of bugging out of speed sessions….I do actually enjoy them….just don’t enjoy the thought of them!!!!!
Actual - 5.5 miles time - 50.34 average pace 9.16
Thursday – rest
Oh yes and I rested in work……..
Friday - pyramid hill reps
Actual - hill reps……I ran up and down at 15, 30,45 and 60 second intervals…..all very confusing……I find it confusing to explain what I did let alone actually having to do it!!!!!......
Saturday - 3 mile jog
Ok so my 3 mile jog turned into 18……! Only a small amount of mileage extra!!!!......Family commitments meant a Saturday long run instead of a Sunday long run….oh a change of routine!!!!.....It was a slow one……average pace of about 10…but I felt I could run forever at that pace!!....not a wonderful route…but I need the practice on pavements……so I ran to Chichester and back……I do enjoy running routes that I drive……it makes me feel like a runner!!..…… sometimes I wonder if I can call myself a runner yet???….. I think maybe now I can…… although I don’t wear a bin bag at the beginning of races…… and proper runners do that!!!
But a very enjoyable run…..my neighbors thought I was slightly potty when they drove past me twice as they had been to Chichester shopping and then back….. but hey….what do they know!!!!!
Actual - 18 miles comfortable time - 3 hours 10mins average pace 10.33
Sunday - 17 miles comfortable
Ok so now my 17 miles turned into a rest day!!!...ooops…..all these changes I made!!!!.....I thought about doing my 3 mile jog today as a recovery run …..but I had a sports massage yesterday afternoon after my 18 miles…..and I thought I was dying of the flu last night I ached so much!!!!.....I never thought it was possible for my whole body to hurt as it did….I hardly slept and just wanted to cry!!!!!....yes I know im a sissy!!!.....
So another wonderful week!!!!......I have ached and cried and smiled and laughed!!!....but loved every minute of it!!!!......onto week 11!!!!!......
massive congratulations to my lovely friend Wendy......who always thrashes me up the arundel hills on a friday night......came in best for age today at the Malta marathon....aged 65!!!!...... Go Girl.....!!!!! woooooo hooooo!!!!!!
RUTH MCKEAN wrote (see)
Mel!! That is amazing well done! How did fluid & peeing go??? PC91 wrote (see) Hi (thought I'd replace your name with a Smiley), Good luck this weekend. Have fun. Hi Ruth, Firstly sorry for interfering, I realised after my last message that we should stay focused and mentioning Pxxxx was an unnecessary distraction. and I have a similar problem of disappearing behind trees. I have reduced sweating by wearing the right clothing thus reducing the amount I drink. However I also use Gu gels containing caffeine which of course is a diuretic. I think I have solved one problem to remplace it with another. Shame, I really like the chocolate gel. I would be grateful for any suggestions to get the fluid intake right. Perhaps the benefits of caffeine based gels outweigh any inconvenience it causes. Caffeine during exercise believe it or not is not usually found to be a diuretic (but too much when not exercising and yes it will be). It is likely that during exercise hormones alter kidney function and hence bladder movement. However coffee before a race, if this is something you always do, should also be part of your race morning routine (unless you cut the caffeine a week or so before) because if you suddenly take caffeine away some people can start to get a headache during the race or before and this could be simple due to caffeine withdrawal especially if a strong caffeine drink and also it can help empty ones bowels prior to race starting! Getting nervous before a race can cause more toilet visits and also a dry mouth which often leads you to drink lots, as you think they are thirsty but if you feel you are well hydrated and peeing lots of clear or pale yellow urine you will be drinking enough and just wetting you mouth may be all that is needed. Write down what you drink before races at the moment, how many times you pee and is this a "hydrated" looking pee i.e not dark yellow but a pale straw colour then back off fluid and only drink small sips. Are you drinking too much during an actual race? I am going to start mentioning Paris a lot more now!!
That is amazing well done!
How did fluid & peeing go???
PC91 wrote (see)
Hi (thought I'd replace your name with a Smiley), Good luck this weekend. Have fun. Hi Ruth, Firstly sorry for interfering, I realised after my last message that we should stay focused and mentioning Pxxxx was an unnecessary distraction. and I have a similar problem of disappearing behind trees. I have reduced sweating by wearing the right clothing thus reducing the amount I drink. However I also use Gu gels containing caffeine which of course is a diuretic. I think I have solved one problem to remplace it with another. Shame, I really like the chocolate gel. I would be grateful for any suggestions to get the fluid intake right. Perhaps the benefits of caffeine based gels outweigh any inconvenience it causes.
Caffeine during exercise believe it or not is not usually found to be a diuretic (but too much when not exercising and yes it will be). It is likely that during exercise hormones alter kidney function and hence bladder movement. However coffee before a race, if this is something you always do, should also be part of your race morning routine (unless you cut the caffeine a week or so before) because if you suddenly take caffeine away some people can start to get a headache during the race or before and this could be simple due to caffeine withdrawal especially if a strong caffeine drink and also it can help empty ones bowels prior to race starting!
Getting nervous before a race can cause more toilet visits and also a dry mouth which often leads you to drink lots, as you think they are thirsty but if you feel you are well hydrated and peeing lots of clear or pale yellow urine you will be drinking enough and just wetting you mouth may be all that is needed. Write down what you drink before races at the moment, how many times you pee and is this a "hydrated" looking pee i.e not dark yellow but a pale straw colour then back off fluid and only drink small sips. Are you drinking too much during an actual race? I am going to start mentioning Paris a lot more now!!
The last part of the above was meant to read "if you start hydrated you should NOT as a rule need to be drinking at every drink station unless the surrounding temp is high"
Steve - mustard is no one of your five a day, nor is jam (before you try that one!).
Excellent. 18 miles after PB last week at Dorney, plus training and busy workload. You're not slightly potty ... . My next race? A little run on the 7th April. Ruth - followed your advice for hydrating and Carb loading. Thanks
How did it go?
Mel, busy trying to find a decent Italian with lots of options but either too far away from hotel (although there is one 217m from hotel with decent reviews but no available menu) but hope to have some menu's available for this weekend (can't believe how quick March is coming!).
Are you eating enough after an 18mile run? what did you eat in the first four hours after your 18miler?
I love your training reports Mel, they're so insightful!
Just popped in to say if you did do Sunday's 3 mile jog today, to switch Tuesday and Wednesday around so you don't have two jog days in a row. I've also stuck some accel strides on to the Tuesday run, so your legs don't forget how to turn over nice and fast Especially since the planned 5km time trial at training day is now going to be a different session altogether, as Ady, Alex and Sarah all have a race on the Sunday. So here's the revised plan for the week:
Week 11 w/c 25th February RECOVERY WEEK Monday REST OR LOW IMPACT CROSS TRAINING Tuesday 4 MILE JOG plus 3 x accel strides Wednesday 7 MILES STEADY Thursday REST Friday: 6 MILE COMFORTABLE Saturday TRAINING DAY 4 miles MP plus short speed work on track (approx 7 miles total) Sunday REST MILEAGE 24
Oh Sam what are you going to make us do now!!!!.....????....and how come they all get to play on Sunday and I don't!!!!.............I wont know what to do with myself!!!!
I did my 3 mile Saturday run on Monday....kept it really slow and steady although surprised I wasn't carted off by the paramedics when seen clutching my chest pretending to be Sarah Brightman from Phantom of the Opera.....that's why I don't normally run with music!!!.....So today I did my 4 mile jog, no accel strides upped the pace but did run up a big hill to make it harder......( hadn't picked up your post!!!) sorry......!!!
Hey Ruth......Maybe I should ignore your last question.....!! I was a little naughty after my 18 miler......I had to rush out super quick for my massage..( like 20 minutes..... badly miss judged timings!!!) .....so only managed 2 oat cakes with cashew butter, and a glass of chocolate milk.....then a tesco dash....then finally sat down to trout, sweet potato and loads of veg......and a sneaky bar of coconut chocolate....it was for experimental reasons only....and no it doesn't go!!!.........what a waste of good chocolate!!....
I thought you were telling me the restaurant you were looking at was 217 miles from the hotel!!!!............
Wiggly worm!!!....ha athlete.....not sure about that!!!.....I'm quite happy with accepting a 'runner' title!!!.....We will keep the athlete title for you!!!!......I'm so pleased you had the same awful post run experience as me....well not pleased you were hurting....but I'm secretly pleased it wasn't just me being a complete woose!!!!..........I never knew my body could feel like that!!!.....
PC91.....please excuse my geographical ignorance, but I had to look up Savigny Sur Orge.....it looks beautiful......how come you get to do the amazing races and not Bognor Regis or Scunthorpe like normal people!!!!.......????......oh yes 7th April!!!!...Yikes.....its coming round so fast..........What time is it your aiming for???.....I might need a pacer!!!!.....
Mel - I meant to say earlier that I am so impressed that you managed to get a teenager to do a 40 mile bike ride, My 3 kids are all slightly below teenage, but they just laugh when I suggest they come out for a run with me. And they have to be bribed to come out on bikes (eg icecreams halfway)- and when they do agree, its nowhere near 40 miles.
I've been avidly reading these forums for weeks now, you've been my cyber marathon training company, so I thought I'd finally say hello. Melanie, you were round about my level when you started, but you're way faster than me now! It's incredible the speed you've improved at, it's been great watching your running get better and better.
I have an injury question for Sam or for Sarah maybe. I have been diagnosed with tendinopathy on the top of my left foot (after running in the mud). I have seen two physiotherapists who both have said I can run on it, although it hurts to walk and run at the moment. I'm not sure whether to trust the advice. They have said if it gets prgressively worse then to stop running, but I'm scared to try, what do you think? I'm only into my 5th week of a 16 week marathon training programme, and it's my first marathon. I haven't run for 2 weeks now and the foot is exactly the same (despite icing daily and ibuprofen). How much running can I miss before the marathon's a bad idea? Like Mel the futhest I have run in the past is a half marathon and that was last October.
That's OK PC91...you hijack away!!!....Ill just trip you up at Brighton next year.....I wont do it in Paris....too many people might see!!!!........Sounds like you have chosen to live in a beautiful part of the world!!....makes such a difference when you have amazing running routes on your doorstep!!!....I think you may have been a bit more successful with the carb loading pre half....I over ate and felt really heavy the morning of the race!!.....blahhhh....need to change my tactic for the big one!!!....
I would agree with you wiggly worm....perhaps the 18 miles had something to do with being exhausted!!!!.....I would normally eat more after a long run, but I badly mismanaged my time....running out for a massage followed by tesco was a very bad idea!!!!.....( especially when I bumped into a very old boyfriend from many moons ago.....) ummmmm yes maybe I'm not aging quite so well after 18 miles.....!!
Hey cat....that made me laugh......40 miles....no way 40 mins!!!!.....and there was a hot chocolate stop mid point!!!!....you really think I could get her out of bed for nothing......normally I would have something thrown at me!!!!.....I think the threat of being locked in a cupboard and whipped with a big stick helped too!!!!!!....( any child protection officers out there....I'm joking!!)
Well hello Rebecca!!!...It lovely to hear from you!!!!.....I'm only faster because Im on week 11....!!! You'll see...you'll be speeding along soon!!.....( not that I think for one minute that anything within my running capability is speedy!!!) Plod is a far more accurate term!!!.....Poor you with a poorly foot!!...not good being unable to run when in training!!!......I hope the lovely Sarah can give you confidence with your physio's...!!!.....
I'm feeling like a bit of a cop out this week with so little running!!!!.....I know its a recovery week and I need it.....but it does feel very strange!!!!.....I'm sure next week I will be raring to go again.....have to admit I have been tired and probably needed a slower week!!.....so thank you Sam for once again knowing whats best!!!!.....
Hi Mel, you have been doing super well with training you should relish the easy week. Like you I did my 18 miles last Saturday, through the parks and Thames towpath in West London. I even managed to find a distraction of a new part of the canal for the last few miles that had a few steep surprises...so much for thinking it would be flat. I have to admit that as the mileage has stepped up, I've been surprised at how my body reacts to the additional miles after the previous week...last week I did feel more able for the miles.I just thought of running 3 x 10kms so after each one, I started again and in my head it made it doable. This weekend I am tackling the 20 miles for the first time and honestly, am just wanting it over as its this time of the week that I get scared of the mileage. Isogels and shot blocks at the ready
What I have found to limit the aches after the long runs is the cold bath...for between 5/10mins..depending on my tolerance level and then follow it by a warm bath with salts. Last weekend was the exception as I couldnt bear the cold after running in such cold temperatures.
Hi Rebecca, this has been quite a common complaint after all the running in the snow and mud. Alex had a similar issue.
Does it creak at all along the tendon when you move it? Does the tendon go to the big toe? You need to do some massage to the muscle at the front of the shin to the outside of the shin bone not on the bone. This is where the muscle belly for the tendon is. It can help to get some anti iflammatory gel on there to help locally and ice, also worth trying is hirudoid cream ,does help for local tendonitis. If painful to walk then running will make it more sore. You also need to get treated all the way up the leg especially mobilising the fibula ITB hip flexors and lower back to off load the area as much as you can. Please let me know any more details you can and what treatment you have had so far.
Thanks for your reply.
I have had some soft tissue work on the shin, but my physio said my shin wasn't really tight (unusual for me!). It is the tendon which goes to the big toe, but it doesn't creak with movement. It's also sore in the muscles inbetween the metarsals near where the foot turns into toes. This hurts when I prod but not when I walk or run. Sometimes there's a dull ache on the top of my foot when I walk, but it's only slight. It did hurt to prod the tendon running into the big toe but that's gone now.
The pain seems to come and go, for a few hours it won't hurt to walk, and then it will for a while, then back to nothing. Often it's just the first few steps after I get up, but sometimes it hurts whenever I take a step. Driving seems to make it worse. I have an appointment with a different physio on Monday morning and will ask about lower back and IT band. I did have tight ITB just before the injury, and sore quads, which I have never had before. It's gone now after the rest (no running for two weeks now). I think my lower back is relatively infelxible generally, maybe that's had an effect.
I've been using ibuprofen gel on my foot, but not the shin, I'll certainly try it. Would you recommend cross training on the ellitical machine? I have been doing this a little, and it doesn't hurt. I could also be amusing myself with yoga but I wasn't sure about pushing off from the floor for downward dog and planks etc. What do you think?
Also, what is hirudoid cream?
Impish 37, great you appear to be making progress.
I won't be there tomorrow but have a great day and look forward to hearing all about it.
wiggly worm wrote (see)
Hi Ruth, Mel and I had the same experience after our 18 milers, both of us were achy and exhausted. Mel had oatcakes, cashew butter and choc milk. I had choc milk (200ml) and a hot cross bun, with eggs on toast about 2 hours later. Without giving too much away, I see from an earlier post that we both weigh the same too!! It would be great to have your feedback on our refuelling strategies. In my case, I suspect that part of the reason I was exhausted is because 18 miles is a long way.....?!
Your recovery post run was actually not too bad from a nutrition view point however what did you eat before and what did you have during run? As this is important to consider as well as terrain.
The biggest factor is probably the distance as this is high and I wonder how many 18milers you have completed before?
Ice bath may well have help! Sarah could give you more info on this.
you need to get the physio to check you havent got a stress fracture along the shaft of the second toe try pressing the bone and see if there is a hot spot.
The cream works best if it's creaking but there may be something undelying
Just a quick summery for this week!!!....I have a bath waiting for me to lounge in!!!!
Monday - 3 mile recovery jog
Had a bit of a change about as I did my long run on Saturday instead of Sunday…..so then had to do recovery today!!!.....Went out nice and slow….all felt good…..even singing my head off to Phantom of the Opera…..I don’t normally run with music so it was a bit of a novelty!!!!
3miles Time 28.52 pace – 9.57
Tuesday – 4 mile Jog
As yesterday was a jog….( due to me jiggling around all Sam’s hard work!!) Today I maintained the 4 mile bit….but just made it a bit harder by running up a few hills !!....I don’t know why I do that to myself!!!......
A beautiful run!!!!.....but arnt they always!!!
4 miles Time – 40.02 Pace – 10.01
Wednesday – 7 miles steady
This is when the week goes horribly wrong!!!!
.....I could feel this huge tiredness hit me in work!!!...I had a half hour snooze when I got home…..( I NEVER DO THAT!!!) ….Went out with the running club….and I bailed at 4 miles…..It just wasn’t happening….I figured I could either listen to my body and stop…or keep going for the sake of the mileage!!!!.....a good decision to stop….a rest day tomorrow and hopefully back to normal for Friday!!.....
Thursday – Rest
Friday – 6 miles comfortable
I’m still pooped!!!....Had to drive up to Birmingham tonight after work for boot camp…..so opted to take this as another enforced rest day and hopefully bank my hours for Sunday…..!!!...( if Sam lets me!!) …..this is so unlike me!!!!....
Saturday – Boot camp!!!
Wow what an amazing day!!!!.....Everyone is sooooo fab!!!!!.....Thank you for another incredible day!!!!.....I feel so humbled to be involved with such inspiring people!!!...ooooooo it makes me feel all gooey!!!!
……Sam gave me permission to do 8 miles on Sunday and we talked though marathon paces and target times…..I’m not quite ready to commit yet to my final marathon time until after my 20 miler next weekend!!!......
We did some speed work and marathon pacing work, both with the Garmin and then without!!!......that was tricky!!!.....!!....
I felt fine!!...pleased I had listened to my body and rested especially with my mileage at its highest next week!!!
Sunday – 8 miles
Off I toddled with my sister, my daughter and the dog over the South Downs!!.....I felt slow but didn’t push it and listened to my body….felt good when I ran past the cyclist going up a hill!!!!..........sorry Mr cyclist...but I have to get my kicks somehow!!!
Then had a bit of a sprint when the police saw us on a “No dogs allowed” part of Arundel park!!!.....It was the only time in our life we could run away for the police and it looked like we were supposed to!!!!.....made us laugh a lot….<img src='/