RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00

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  • Morning campers. Spoons - I know resting is a key part of a successful training plan so I forced myself to stay in bed image I shall be off out later this evening to do about 10 miles easy paced at about 10:00. Have you been out for you run today yet. ?
  • Carl - I'd imagine Spoons will be telling you to slow down!!
  • Carl - Just about to be in the car for the next few hours so I will respond later.

    10:00 pace is fine for easy running. 

    Have I been for a run yet? Well it's probably best to focus on your training rather than mine.... image

  • That'll be a 'no' then   image

  • haha, my kinda thread image. Hell yeah, it's Christmas. Let's enjoy getting shtfaced as much as we can before January rolls on an we all have to jump on the wagon image, serious afleets that we are image

  • Hahaha - another great match up but for different reasons!



    Best of luck - both of you! image
  • Carl..... you run everything a lot faster than i used to run during my training and I managed a 3:57 last year........

    Carter.10 miles at 10  in miling has a nice sound to it.hope that its drier today for you

  • Seren - when you say drier are you referring to the weather or the alcohol count ??
  • Minni, Yes I live in Inverness and you're right there are some amazing places to run in and around Inverness, I'm now starting to widen the net a little which involves running up and down lots of hills, Im not quick at all, but I actually enjoy plodding my way up them, I'm planning to do Loch Ness as my first Marathon so I'll need to get used to them.  Just back from a group run up in Daviot Woods again, 6.3 miles @ 9:59mm, longer run planned for tomorrow.

    Carter, enjoy your run later, I guess it's taking a little while to get re-hydrated image after last night's festivities.

  • SC - it will take less time if I dont have Magners again image

     

  • OK Spoons, here is the training plan I've come up with. I started off using Hal Higden Advanced 2 then after listening to comments on other threads here I have tweaked things based on their comments and to fit things in around my lifestlye.

    Up until now I have been averaging between 40-50 miles per week.

    Monday - lunchtime gym session, afternoon is an easy run (10:00 mpm) from work to car park which is 3.3 miles = total of 3.3 miles

    Tuesday - morning easy run to work 3.3 miles, lunchtime gym session, evening is a 3 mile tempo run at about 8:20mpm, 1.5 warm up and cool down = total of 9.3 miles

    Wednesday - easy 3.3 to work, lunchtime gym session, 3.3 miles to car park = total of 6.6 miless

    Thursday - Easy 3.3 to work, lunchtime gym session and evening 5 mile hill session = total of 8.3 miles

    Friday - rest day

    Saturday - 20 miles LSR at 10:00 - 10:30 - Remember that I have got, in my opinion, plenty of miles in my legs over the last few months. My current longest run is 20 miles so am thinking of carrying on from where I left off over the festive break. My LSR tend to be in the Peak District so parts of the run can be off road, trail, rocky paths etc. = total of 20 miles

    Sunday - 6 mile recovery run = total of 6 miles

    So, that is a weekly total of 54 miles which I will be startong w/c 07/01.

    Between now and 07/01 I will be still doing a few runs by they are all going to be at an easy pace.

    I will peak at 64 miles per week and this is 4 weeks before Manchester.

    Also to be taken into account are a couple of races I have entered before April. On 10/02 I am in the Liversedge HM. Ideally I would like to get a new PB in this race, as I am of the opinion that it's not worth entering a race if you arent going to give it everything. My last HM (Clowne about 4 weeks ago) took me about 3 weeks to recovery fully. Like I say, I would like to target a PB here but if you dont think that's a good idea then I will be guided but you. I am also in the Grindleford Gallop on 10/03; this is a 22 mile off road, xc race. I do not intend to run this as a race but a practise run and am there for the enjoyment of it.


     

     

  • On Tuesdays in my training plan, I will be alternating between a tempo session and a marathon pace session. Both of those will increase in length as time goes by but to what distance I'm not really sure. 

    Thursdays will alternate between a hill session and an interval/hill interval session. Again they will increase in length as the weeks go by.

    I will be reducing my weekly mileage every 3ish weeks but that will change slightly depdning when I have another race.

    In September I have also entered my first ultra race, the Ladybower 50. If possible, and I suspect this will be a good discussion point, I would like to start my preperation for this as early as possible so I dont mind my long weekend runs being longer than 26 miles. Again, I will go along with whatever you think is the right thing to do. Manchester is my first A race so if you dont think it wise to increase the mileage too much then thats fine.

    That's it for now boss.

  • In addition, some of my bad points are:

    • I need to try really hard on my nutrition as I am a few ounces over my ideal fighting weight
    • I feel that I can sometimes overdo things and I need to learn to back off and do less on some weeks
    • Alcohol - from the new year there will be no alcohol on a school night or the night before my LSR. There will, however, be copious amounts drunk on Saturday nights
    Some of my good points are:
    • I could eat 5 Big Mac's in one session
    • If given the choice of rice or naan bread with a curry I would chose both
    • I can drink a crate of Magners on a Saturday night
    • I will train hard my training period, weather is not an issue for me
    • I really enjoy my running
  • And finally, thanks to the organisers of this and for chosing me.

    And good luck to all who are involved

  • Carter - am exhausted after reading your training schedule and your plns for 2013.

    I thought I was doing pretty well dong a nice 20+ miles per week for the last 6-8 weeks with a focus on increasing my base speed. Was not sure where I was taking this over the duration but clearly I now need to revamp my plan over Christmas as I know I need to put in more miles and probably 2-3  runs of 20 miles.

    With such a comprehensive training regime, I am sure that with a little expert tweaking from Spoons that you will easily achieve your target.

    Minnie and Spoons - I know you are right but I do struggle with slow runs. I thought the transition to 10:00 mm was going to be too much today so I set out with 8:40 - 8: 50 mm as my target. I settled into a comfortable 8:40 mm amd maintained this for much of my 8 mile run but did find it incredible slo. Strange but true. I did push the last 2 miles home to finish with an overall average of just under 8:30 mm.

    Much to think about both in terms of pacing and mileage. image

  • In for a penny I say Carl. What have you got planned for next year ?

    Talking of exhausted I've just got back from my run. My legs just didn't want to play tonight and they felt like lead weights. I ended up doing 7.58 @ 10:13 so not to bad under the circumstances.

    Note to self - the day after loads of beers and a curry make sure you drink plenty of water.
  • Sorry I've been out all day image

    right Carl first - sub 4 sounds achievable on the little I know about you. As Minni thought, the first thing I would say is slow down. For the minute I would forget too much about paces and we can think about times and paces later. Initially, the majority of your running should be at an easy pace where you can comfortably hold a conversation whilst running. Basically, marathon running is an endurance event and you don't build endurance whilst running quickly. That said, we will need to add some faster running, marathon pace running, and hill work to build strength and stamina but for now, concentrate mainly on easy running. How much? Well to be honest it's as much as possible but if you can build up to an hour 4 times a week and 2 hours once a week whilst adding Jo more than 10% per week that would be perfect. I guess you'll have to think about how much time you can commit to and when etc....

    OK - Carter next....

  • Carter - OK so you've got plenty of miles going on. A few points in no particular order.

    forget about the 50 miler until after the marathon. If you're marathon fit you can then spend the summer doing back to back long runs etc to get ultra fit but until then forget it.

    half marathon in Feb is fine and yes, go and smash it and get a PB.

    22 mile trail race in March is fine as long as you can jog round slowly. If you will are likely to be tempted to race it then don't do it.

    Weekly tempo run is great. I would do is quicker than MP and over the next 4 months gradually increase the distance. MP runs - personally I prefer to do bits of MP running in LSRs but not yet. Maybe start beginning of Feb and only in alternate weeks.

    Hills - what are you doing exactly? You mention 5 miles....

    intervals - we need to get some speed work in there. Slow running is great and will build endurance but we need some quicker stuff as well to build strength.

    obviously the less magners and kebabs the better but I won't labour on this....

  • Carter - what are your PBs? (All distances please)

    Carl - honestly it is worth working on running slowly and everyone says they find it tough but it really works. Basically most people do the majority of their running too quick and when they should be doing speed work they don't run quick enough! A big range of paces is a useful skill to learn.

  • seren nos yn canu wrote (see)

    Carl..... you run everything a lot faster than i used to run during my training and I managed a 3:57 last year........

    Carter.10 miles at 10  in miling has a nice sound to it.hope that its drier today for you

    Thanks. A sub 4 is definitely on the cards. I am running 1mm faster on the longer runs thatn I did this time last year and about 1:30 mm faster on the shorter runs. So my level of fitness is much better. However I do know that my training needs more focus and that I must increase the weekly mileage and learn to slow down. This is probably the key to getting close to my target. 

  • Spoons - At the moment I run 3 times per week mainly in the evening with the longer run over the weekend. I was planning on upping this to 4 in the new year but if you are suggesting 5 then I will try that and see how I can get on. Probably means I need to change to early morning as the OH would not be too pleased with me coming home from work most nights and then heafing out again.

    So from this week it looks like 4 x 6miles and 1 x 12 miles and we can take it from there .. while a bit of a step up in mileage from what I am currently doing should be fine ... will let you know how I go as the week progresses. image

  • Carl - are you planning to do any speed work as part of your training ?

    Spoons - that 1:47 half is my only race and therefore PB. Happy with what you say about the other races I have planned. Hills - I live in Sheffield and its flippin hilliy. I have a 5 mile route that takes in 1 steep hill (1 mile long), another route that is 8 miles long (2 hills x 1 mile each) and a 9.5 route that takes in 3 x 1 mile hills. All are quad burners and a good workout. At the moment I don't know what a good hill session is or how to set up a auitable hill session so that would be good advice you could give. I also don't really understand the difference between tempo runs and intervals with speed. Some explanation on that would also be good, preferably in simple terms please image I will take out the marathon pace runs on Tuesdays and incorporate them into the LSR runs from February. Why would I do these only in alternate weeks ?
  • Carl - if you're doing 3 runs now I would start doing 4 rather than 5 for a bit. Small steps and all that.

  • Why every other week? Because marathon training is all about gradually increasing the training, slowly enough that we don't injure ourselves and giving ourselves sufficient recovery time,  because it is during recovery that our bodies adapt and rebuild. Also, a slow, time on feet run, has different training benefits than a long run with marathon pace segments.

  • Tempo runs and speed work: tempo runs are what you are doing, and look something like 10 mins slow, 30 mins at a comfortably hard effort, 10 mins slow.

    Speedwork and intervals would be more like 10 mins slow, then 16 x 400m reps, with 1 minute rest between each, then 10 mins slow. The 400m pace can be run much faster than the 30 min tempo effort. The trick is not to run them so fast that you slow down throughout the session. 

  • Hill work - my favourite session is Kenyan hills or rolling hills. Find an up and down loop around half a mile or so (400m up + 400m down). After a warmup, just run round and round the loop. (Boring). I usually do 20 mins + 2 mins rest + 20 mins. I focus on pushing hard up the hill and recovering on the down.

  • OK. I've taken the marathon pace runs out of Tuesday's and replaced them all with tempo runs.I've started at 10 slow, 30 effort, 10 slow and build up to 10 slow, 90 effort, 10 slow and peak at 3 weeks before the marathon. Is that ok, too much, not enough ? I've started off at 8:30 pace for my tempo runs, thoughts ?

    When including a marathon pace effort in my LSR what percentage and part of the run should I run at marathon pace ? 

    Hills - would I continue with the same amount of time on a hill session throught my plan or look to increase that time ?

    The same question for intervals. I've started off at 8:00 pace for my 400m intervals, thoughts on this also please ?

    Cheers

  • This might look scary:

    4 hour marathon is 9:00 pace.

    3:45 marathon is 8:30 pace.

    So if we initially work on your goal marathon pace as around 8:45 (we'll have to see as we progress if this is correct but it sounds about right for now).

    Therefore:

    Long slow run pace is 10 min miling

    Half marathon pace is 8 min miling

    10km pace is 7:40

    5km pace is 7:20  

    Tempo runs around 7:45 pace  

    Mile reps 7:20 pace

    800m reps 7:00 pace

    400m reps 6:40 pace  

    Do you have a Garmin?

  • I dont know about a Garmin but I think I will need an engine to achieve those times image

    But yes, I do have a Garmin.

     

  • image lol!

    Spoons you're doing a great job here!  You should try listening to your own advice! image

    I might cut and paste some of your stuff onto my thread - you clearly know more than me. image

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