RW Forum SIx – 3.30 – 4.00



  • Carl - nice tempo run. Pretty perfect pace wise I would say image

    Carter - as you thought - I would leave the Wednesday run as an easy pace for now. Why? Because the chances are you will be tired after Tuesday and even more tired for Thursday. However - give it 6 weeks and it may well be a good thing. Your body will be adapting nicely to the training and you may be able to cope better. At the minute let's just focus on building endurance and not push it too much.

  • Okie dokie.

    What can you tell me about HR ? About 3 months ago I measured my MHR at 175 following a 5km 'sprint'. During Monday's tempo run my max HR peaked at 171 but I felt relatively comfortable at that pace. Should I be getting so close to my max during a tempo run ? Do the figures suggest that I havent correctly measured my MHR ?

    Do you use HR for training or will we be training based purely on times/paces ?

  • You shouldn't be that near max heart rate on a tempo run. I have "dabbled" in heart rate training but not done that much. I suspect your max is higher than 175. If you wear your heart rate monitor for your speedwork, tempo and easy runs let's have a look at the data and see what it suggests.

  • Ok, sounds good.

    Re my aches and pains on my knee and ankle, I checked out my running trotters and they seem to be nearing the end of their life. I shall be procuring some more in the next couple of days so that will hopefully help
  • Hi Carterusm/ Spoons, just popping in to say good luck with the training image You have an excellent mentor there image

    Spoons mentored me to sub 4.30 at Manchester last year. Including the speedwork can be challenging at first but it can make a huge difference and well worth the effort. I have got half an eye on sub 4 now, but will probably more realistically go for sub 4.15 first at VLM,  I will look in occasionally to see how things are going if that's okay.


  • Hi PM - hope you're OK. Sub 4:15 will be a breeze for you I'm sure image

    pottermiss wrote (see)

    You have an excellent mentor there image

    Thanks! (blushes image)

    Carter - your shoes will need replacing every 500 miles or so. It might be worth digging out your foam roller and seeing if you have any really tight painful spots on the calves or ITB.

  • Hi PM

    It's good to know in in safe hands. Feel free to pass on any nuggets of info or advice whenever you like image

    Spoons - will have a bash with the roller when I get back from my run
  • 7.53 miles at 10:07 without looking at my watch once so a good effort on the pacing. It felt hard going tonight.

    Here is the link -


  • If it felt hard going you are probably getting tired. Might need to reduce some mileage for a bit. On the commute rather than the sessions though. Don't do anything yet. Just see how you feel over the next few days. Let me know if you feel tired or runs are tough. 

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Just over 8 miles at 9:34 pace tonight. I found myself having to check my pace a few times as my mind was wandering. First time that has happened for a long time. Probably the time of day.

    Tomorrow evening is going to be interesting one. Going to take Minni's advice and get a good warmup in before I hit the intervals.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Spoons - interested in your thoughts on taking on nutrition before an evening run. I got it wrong tonight but as the pace was so slow it did not matter.

    How long before a run should I eat and what is best to eat. It is all about having enough fuel in the tank and I know that the Thursday run will definitely be in the evening and more than likely the Tuesday / Wednesday will also be evening runs. When the kids go back to school, these could be 9pm runs. Thanks.

  • Carl - good run last night. Gettign this slow pacing right is hard isnt it. I managed 8 : 10:07 without looking at my watch last night so hopefully I am getting better at it and at running slower ! I'm on intervals tonight as well, I plan to warm up for 2 miles before starting them, what's your plan ?

    Spoons - healthier diet, no beers and a good nights sleep last night so feeling a lot better. No physical tiredness following last nights run  so will see how things go. The knee is fine today but a bit of a twinge in the ankle. Would it benefit me if I strapped the ankle up while running or will it just hinder me ? How is your injury, shin splints is it ?

  • Carl - My evening runs are usually around 6-7pm so I eat afterwards. That said I eat loads and constantly graze all afternoon on stuff like yoghurt, muesli bars, rich tea biscuits (only 35 caloriesimage ) etc. Otherwise I just don't have the energy. I don't eat big meals though. I just constantly eat!

    If your run is at 9pm do you eat dinner first? I guess as long as it's not too heavy you'll be OK to run and hour afterwards. I would eat half at 7:30 and the other half after the run personally.

  • Carter - good news re: the diet, no beer and sleep image

    I'm not sure about strapping up ankles. I'll ask a thread physio to ask some proper questions.

    Yes - I have shin splints. They were a major problem for me years ago but have been OK for a while. Over the last 6 months they have been a niggle which has been gradually growing. I'm on the injury bench for the minute and have a physio appointment on Saturday.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - agree that get the slow pacing right is much harder than it should be after all it is slow. It just feels so unnatural to run at near walking speed. But I know it is the right thing to do and as the training gets harder it will probably get easier as the body will need it to recover.

    Spoons - sorry to hear about your shin splints. I had them two years ago before the VLM. Real nuisance but physio should help.

    I am hoping to get out tonight around 7pm so will start grazing during the afternoon rather than leave it too late as I did yesterday.

    If I have to run at 9pm from next week when the kids are back I will just need to take on extra fuel around 6ish to make sure that I dont run out of gas so to speak.image

  • Carl - I wish I could graze. I'm afraid that if food is in front of me it gets shovelled in as quickly as possible image

    Cant you get out for a run in the morning or at lunchtime or does family prevent that ? I make sure my LSR is early Saturday morning when the missus is at work then we spend the rest of the day together = brownie points image

    Spoons - the ankle is ok when I walk on it. If I turn my foot from side to side I can feel a slight twinge in the ankle (mainly on the inside). I'm due for intervals tonight, how should I approach this ? Cheers

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Just about to leave work. Will be home tonight by about 7 so should be out by 7.30. Floodlights are on until 8.30 at the running track so that gives me time to warm up and then go for it.

    Did not sleep very well last night so have been feeling sluggish today. Am hoping thatthe cold air will reinvigorate me.

  • My ankle was feeling a bit sore after a couple of miles warming up so I didnt bother with the intervals, just in case. It's a rest day tomorrow so hopefully it will have eased by the weekend. Tonight's run turned into an easy 5.5 miles -

    How did your intervals go Carl ?

  • Hmmm - a bit worrying re: the ankle. I suggest you do some foam rollering and stretching. I've asked Always Aching to pop by and check you out. 

  • Thanks.

    I think it's defintely related to my shoes. On tonight's run I deliberately monitored how they felt and they were 'slapping the ground' as apposed to 'bouncing' (Adidas Supernova Glide 3). I say that as both lower legs have very slight niggly aches and I felt like this when my previous pair of trotters were past it. I think it's something I need to be more aware of. A couple of days rest do you think ?

  • Carter - couple of questions: have you had pain in this area before? When did it come on? Does it hurt all the time? How bad was the pain when you were running today?

    Sounds wise to rest now for a day or so and see how it feels then. How far has spoons got you running this Saturday?!
  • Hi AA.

    It's the first time I've had pain in this area before. On a scale of 1 - 10 I would say its about a 3 or 4 so not too bad at the moment, I wouldnt say that it was painful, more like a bit of discomfort. I started to notice it on Sunday; on Saturday I went on a 15 mile easy run and there was a section of about 2 miles that was a stoney, uneven surface. I went over slightly on more than one occassion but at the time it didnt cause me any discomfort or pain. The main area I can feel it is on the inside of the ankle towards the back between the protruding boney bit and achilles. I could feel it slightly to start off with tonight but I was aware of it all through the 5.5 easy miles. I am due for a 16 mile LSR on Saturday. I've also noticed that my trainers have had it so have ordered some new ones.

    Many thanks

  • Hi carter. It definitely sounds like a light sprain picked up last weekend then. I would suggest icing it for 6-8 minutes at a time a couple of times tonight and as often as you can manage tomorrow. You might have to delay your long run a day or so or maybe do less this weekend but we will chat again tomorrow to see what we can do.

    Do you only have 1 pair of running trainers? Might be a good time to invest in a new pair, but don't throw out your old ones, keep them for shorter runs so you don't wear your new ones down too quick.
  • Thanks AAimage

  • Thanks AA image

  • Thanks AA, much appreciated.

    I already have a pair of road/off road hybrid type trainers and there are plenty of trails round here I could run on. I have ordered some new road shoes as well that will be delivered in the next couple of days.

    One question regarding something you said. You said to keep my old trainers for short runs. I thought that once your trainers were showing signs of wear then you should replace them. I didn't realise it was ok to use your old ones for short runs ?

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Got to the running track tonight to find that the floodlights were off and park closed image so over the fence I went anyway ... image

    Only problem with running in the dark is that I could not use the backlight on my sportswatch to monitor my pace as I had set my watch to manual laps to capture the 800m intervals and tapping the watch for the backlight activated the manual lap time so I had to run blind.

    Did 7 and a bit laps as a warm up at 9:52 mm pace, followed by :

    Interval 1 (800m) 3:09 mins

    Interval 2 (800m) 3:12 mins

    Interval 3 (800m) 3:15 mins

    Interval 4 (800m) 3:12 mins

    These times equate to an average of 6:30 - 6:35 min/mile which is much quicker than I thought I could do.

    I walked / jogged 400m in between each interval and finished off with about 4 laps to cool down in 9:549 mm pace.

    The 400m recovery laps got a bit longer each time and certainly by interval 3 I knew I was pushing it but decided that I might as well finish strong.

    I cannot say that I enjoyed it but did feel good afterwards when I realised how fast I went and how consistent I was too.

    I need to think about how I build on from here. Should I repeat the 4 reps next week and then move to 5 reps the week after ?

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    Carter - best to rest up for a few days to clear the niggle as it is too early in your schedule to risk making it worse. I had a calf problem a few weeks before my first marathon and had to keep going to the physio so that I could go back out and run ny LSR. In reality I should not have run the marathon but as I was doing it for charity I did. image

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭

    One other point about the running track. It is located at the bottom of a hill in one of the highest parts around where I live and the wind comes over the top and is always in your face as you come round the top b end and down the finishing straight. It is then calm as anything on the back straight. If you run the wrong way round it gets you in reverse so to speak.

    Tonight was no exception and the wind was very strong going into the finishing straight.

    Made pushing for the line a little tough.

    Legs don't feel too bad at the moment. Interesting to see how they are in the morning.

  • Carl DCarl D ✭✭✭
    Rest day. How nice.

    Was a bit tired when I got up first thing but feeling much better now that I have been moving about so to speak.

    Enjoy the day.
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