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Washwood – you had a good week and mixed in some long runs, hills and speed. Ideal ! Just remind me what your target time is for London. I think you said you were looking to get under 4:00 hours but looking at the pace of your long run I’m not sure now as the pace seems a bit fast for 4:00.
Ricky – 21 points eh, you bandit ! 11 miles as you’re getting back into things isn't shabby at all, especially a hilly trail which I suspect would have been quite muddy too. I’m gunning for 3:30 at Manchester so 7:56 pace brings me in around 3:28.
PS – nice fuelling strategy; I’ve done that before and there have been a couple of hairy moments ! Great 17 miles from you, please give us your thoughts about the pace you ran it at (I know you had some MP miles in but you averaged 8:53) ??!! Nice weather over the pond at the moment……not
Ali – that’s a great long run from you too, seems that curry is the new pasta ! Well done on the essay, as you say it must be tough trying to cram everything in that you’re currently doing. Have you run along the West Highland Way yet ?
Nell – sleep is always an interesting topic for discussion I think. I’ve never been one for going to bed too early and for the last 6 years or so I’ve been getting up at 5:15 to go to work. Therefore, I must have a maximum of 6 hours sleep and I just got used to feeling tired all the time. This time round, however, I’m trying to get to bed a bit earlier each night. The problem is that the more I sleep the more sleep I need so I’m not sure if I’m getting the right amount or not. I used to live in Morningside for a while to often went up Braid Hills Road, aren't there some trails up there as well ?
Carl – another great mileage week for you, well done. How often do you have a cut back week on the Hanson’s plan ? My target for Manchester is no secret; it’s simply to go under 3:30. Depending on how training goes and how I feel on the day I may push on a bit quicker. I say that because last year, as you know, I smashed my original target. The strange thing was that, whilst I felt done in after the race, I think I could have gone quite a bit quicker. Maybe everything just clicked into place on the day and this time round things might go all pear shaped, we will have to wait and see. I’m not sure yet about the fueling strategy for race day, again, it depends how things go in training. I think the effort I gave on Saturday’s 20 will probably be similar to race day (bearing in mind I haven’t fully adapted to fat burning yet so I’m still not as strong as I hope to be). As my training continues, I’m going to be adding more MP miles into my long runs and pushing even harder so that will give me a good idea of where I am at. There is one school of thought that says I should carb load as normal for race day and I will feel like I’m flying. I can’t get my head around that at the moment as it goes against my low carb diet ? Anyway, plenty of time (well, just over 8 weeks actually) to come up with a plan. Was your long run fasted and without fuel during the run or did you eat first ? If you can manage 15 miles without food you will be able to manage 18 I believe.
Hi Carter, I am aiming for under 4 but this is looking pretty achievable at the moment as long as things carry on like this (plus injusry free) and I can stay mentally strong for the last few miles.... I may change my goal post and aim for a sub3.45 to see if I can get a good for age time...... Being my first marathon it will all be down to the day ! but things have been pretty comfortable so far (as comfortable as these long runs can be!)....... I will give it my best shot on the day, but also want to enjoy the whole experience, lets be hinest even though Ive said this is my first and only mara ill prob what to see if I can do a better one once Ive got one under my belt !!
Shoe wise I always wore misuno inspire as was told I pronated.... turns out recently after 2 gait analysis being done I dont, hence change to Saucony.... not sure if its coincidence but on longer runs my aches and pains on my right leg are pretty much nil in the neutral shoe compared to inspire..... (probably in my head lol) . I think Ill try the Mizuno neutral shoe though (the wave) next time ....
Carl, wore my 10s today and as I say now they have sofented they are better but certainly seem higher around the ankle bone which was initially very sore.... other than that Im happy with them but I thinnk the 9s were better .
10 miles for me starting at 8.50 and last few at 8.40 with my buddy who is aiming to go sub 3.30 at Manchester.... shes going to smash it I know !! Pace tomorrow with the club, 7 at 8mm pace on wed then a 20 miler on Friday !!!! YIKES !!!! Thinking about entering a 20 mile race at the end of March too ....
Hi Ali, Well done on the twenty miler, that's one behind you banked. Sounds tough for you at the moment but I am sure it will all be worth it in the end. Funny my wife was saying the other day that there is apparently generally a shortage of teachers in Scotland. Aberdeen being a particular area!
Hi Carter, Well done on the LR, that sounds a toughie. I hope you had a well deserved fat coffee or whatever it is you are on at the moment when you got home ;0) Sounds as though you have some big decisions to make come race day? Problem with me is, I get to bed at a decent time (ish) I just don't sleep all the way through, wake up and the mind starts going. Always been the same, I don't think I can remember ever sleeping all the way through the night in my life!
Hi Carl, Interesting that your Hansons plan takes you to 18 miles, is that out of the book? My plan only ever goes up to 16 miles on the LR with 10 miles the day before.Also interesting that you are on 15 miles for the LR and I am just at 12 miles moving on to 14 miles this week.
Hi Ricky, Higher cadence, no heel strike ;0)
Popped into the gym for some S&C yesterday afternoon whilst my son was at swimming club (must admit I was tempted by the cafe!) and moderate pace this morning. Off to see my mother for a couple of days in Brum and meet my sister and kids who are up from London... off to St Andrews to see the game against Middlesbrough Wed night. Must convert my nephew from a Liverpool fan to the Blue side (sorry Carl)
My thoughts on my pace....hmmmm......too fast?! MP feels slow to me (until I collapse at mile 17) so running even more slowly feels incredibly slow.....
Nell I never sleep the whole night through either. Annoying isn't it?
Oh and today I bought thermals.
Ricky you're not an imposter and now you're back you must stick around
Carl- ain't it funny how different models of the 'same' shoe can be so different. My favourite ever shoe was the New Balance 890v2 and v3 but the v4 I got it and it was at least half a size too small and not as comfortable as the others at all.
Carter- I haven't been to the WHW yet. I really have meant to. It's just I would plan on taking the car there and most of my days off lately my partner has been working and therefore has the car. You're flying along at the moment.
washwood- good luck for your 20 miler. What is the 20 mile race you're maybe doing?
Nell- yes apparently Aberdeen are crying out for teachers. No one wants to go and live there. I (honestly) don't know why not, I liked living there. But hey ho I guess it is a bit far up north and a bit chilly for some!
PS- another one here for the never sleep a night through club. It's not really the most fun club in the world but there's enough of us. Where did you get your thermals?
Rest day from running today for me but I did a spinning and weights session at the gym, just nice and easy to get my legs moving gently after yesterday's 20 miler. Back on the running tomorrow and this weekend is a shorter LSR, I think only 13 miles or something like that before another 20 miler the following weekend.
Hi PS, Yes, very annoying
Hi Ali, There are worse places to live than Aberdeen, supposed to be a bit pricey isn't it? Don't think I could live there unless a by-pass was built. Sends me crazy when I have to work in Dyce...
Hi Carter, Yes, remember you saying you were at Scottish Water, most of it is new houses now!
Carter - not sure what cut back weeks are on my plan. Need to have a look. Vague recollection that there are not many or I only drop a few miles every so often. Will check and come back as this is always an area of some debate. How frequent and how much less mileage.
Nell - yes it is very interesting how our plans are different. I thought I was getting an intermediate type plan but maybe I got something more advanced. My plan is not from the book. Got it from them. I combine the 18 mile long runs with 8 miles on the day before / after. They suggest day before but I am doing it the other way round as it just fits my life a little better.
PS - with you on this sleep thing. I was never an early to bed kind of person anyway and I would never say I sleep all the way through.
Ali - you had a rest day and went to the gym for a spinning class and weights. That is not resting !!
And did 6 miles in the rain tonight. Much easier than I thought it would be after a few weeks of high mileage and had to reign myself in a few times as I felt the pace picking up.
Hello all
Things are pretty hectic and at the moment between work, home and spring marathon training so not much time to check in of late. Amazing how things move on at a pace round here!
Carl – Am I right in reading back 12m on the track? As in 48 laps? How on earth did you manage that – a run of epic Sean proportions! You seem to be going great guns on that plan, excellent stuff.
A tip on managing a lunchtime session - I just block out the time in my diary with a ‘not available’ comment and so any meeting requests get rejected. It’s good for a few sessions.
Carter – well done on the recent medical and your weight loss. Good to see that you are adapting to the whole diet thing and the running is coming back to where you want it to be. Very impressed you’re up to 20m - you’re a better man than me managing those long runs unfuelled – I just know I couldn’t do it without the lights going out.
PS, Washwood, Ali – we’re out for a family meal this weekend to celebrate Chinese New Year so based on your recent culinary experiences I’m expecting great things from my LSR afterwards!
Well done on the respective 17, 18 and 20 milers.
Ricky – looks like it’s all coming back for you, keep up the good work
On the subject of cold baths it seems that the current wisdom is that they’re not that effective (got this from the physio at bootcamp). All that punishment could be for nought. Brrrr
Nell – if you take an extra few quid with you on your travels you might come back owning the club
LSR at the weekend was just over 17m in 2hrs 22m – average of 8.20 m/m.
Just started week 8 of what is now a 15 week plan. Today’s session
2m at MP
8 X 800 intervals
3.09; 3.06; 3.06; 3.03; 3.03; 3.05; 3.05; 3.01
2m at MP
I was reading yesterday something about GFA qualifying times (I’ve always harboured notions of doing Boston sometime) and didn’t previously realise that the GFA ‘age’ is as at the date of the race you want to enter, not when you run the time. The qualifying time for Boston in 2016 for my age group will be 3.30. That’s given me some extra motivation to beat that time.
Hello all
Carl- no my day off running wasn't really a 'rest day.' I have found through experience my body doesn't much like running more than 5 days a week, I seem to pick up little niggles or aches. However I don't particularly like to have two days exercise free. I try to normally have one rest day total, where I don't do anything, but on my other day I do like cross training. Normally cycling as it's quite low impact on the legs and feet and I enjoy it. It also helps me loosen up after long or tough runs.
Canter- great long run. GFA time would be great. Even if you didn't DO Boston it'd be cool to have a qualifying time.
4 miles with strides at the end for me today. Then 15 mins spinning, and a conditioning class which was really good.
Managed to squeeze a 4 miler in this evening between finishing work @ 5pm and going out again on my evening calls at 6.30pm.
Same route as last week (3 long hard climbs) but over a minute faster which pleased me
- 8:47, 8:03, 7:56 & 7:25 ..... Have decided this will be my weekly 'benchmark' tempo run to try and improve on week after week and gauge progress.
Tried Nell's higher cadence suggestion which felt quite easy to keep up an 8mml pace however after 2 or 3 miles could feel the effort in my shins & tops of my feet? Obviously not used to mid/front foot striking! Pushed the pace on in the last mile and reverted to type with longer stride which I have to say felt more comfortable at this stage.
Still not convinced Carl with the WI 10's ... Just not as comfortable as the 9's - if I were you I'd give them a miss. Have you tried the Hoka's yet? Supposed to be great for long runs/big miles.
Washwood – under 4:00 looks definitely achievable looking at the pace you are running. How many long runs are you planning to get in ?
Nell – struggling to get the BPC in me to be honest as I’m not really enjoying it. That said, I’ve heard elsewhere that you only need a couple of them a week so I might try and take that approach. Watch yourself around St Andrews as it’s a right rough hole.
PS – running ‘slow’ is definitely hard to get your head around. But most other people who are successful in their marathons do it so there must be something in it ? Have a word with your chimp. By the way, thanks for the valentine’s card…..
Ali . get yourself up the WHW if you can, the further you get up it the more beautiful it becomes.
Carl – is the HM you are doing one for a PB ? Remind us what your current PB is.
Canter – we’ve been having hot baths for years and it hasn’t done us any harm so I will continue with that. Another speedy 800 session. I didn’t realize that the GFA time Boston was so generous, unless you are about 74 ?
Ricky – are you changing to a front/mid foot stride then ? I dabbled with the idea a couple of years ago but you can only run really short distances each time and build it up. I’m afraid I’m not very patient when it comes to this running malarkey. I too have been considering some Hokas for my longer events later in the year. However, the maximum drop they do is 6mm and I am most definitely a 10-12mm drop runner so again it would mean transitioning to a mid foot strike. And some of the colours of their trotters are very garish.
A 5 mile run along the canal and river for me yesterday lunchtime. All at marathon pace and the miles varied between 7:54 – 8:02 so very consistent indeed. A cut back week for me o I’ve got just an easy lunchtime run tomorrow and a very easy 15 miles on Saturday with a friend around Clumber Park
Carter – it’s the cold baths that the jury is out on. Hot ones are fine- I have one of those once a month whether I need one or not J
The Boston times (see below) are more forgiving than London . Although they do operate a quota system depending on the numbers applying in each category and they reduce the qualifying time accordingly, usually by a minute or two.
(Men's Time first, then Women's in each age group)
Age Group
Men
Women
18-34
3hrs 05min 00sec
3hrs 35min 00sec
35-39
3hrs 10min 00sec
3hrs 40min 00sec
40-44
3hrs 15min 00sec
3hrs 45min 00sec
45-49
3hrs 25min 00sec
3hrs 55min 00sec
50-54
3hrs 30min 00sec
4hrs 00min 00sec
55-59
3hrs 40min 00sec
4hrs 10min 00sec
60-64
3hrs 55min 00sec
4hrs 25min 00sec
65-69
4hrs 10min 00sec
4hrs 40min 00sec
70-74
4hrs 25min 00sec
4hrs 55min 00sec
75-79
4hrs 40min 00sec
5hrs 10min 00sec
80 and over
4hrs 55min 00sec
5hrs 25min 00se
It was a stunning day today for a run down here. Bright sunshine and a good temperature.
Looking at tomorrow’s forecast, which is the complete opposite, had to switch the 10m from tomorrow to today, and look forward to a soggy 7m in 24 hrs.
10.3m at 8.04m/m.
Funny you say Boston GFA is more forgiving than London as in sure for my age category it's the opposite (may be wrong but I think London is 3:45 but Boston a speedier 3:35 as you've noted) Canter
Just finished 6 miles. 2 miles slow to warm up (10:54, 10:26) then 4 miles slightly progressive (9:47, 9:21, 9:11, 8:30). Was hard as I'd picked a route which is mostly downhill for 3 miles then mostly uphill for 3 miles so I was giving it a fair whack by the end. But I really enjoyed it and felt great without it feeling too tiring on the legs.
Then to the gym to cool off on the spinning bike where I did 25 minutes.
I have a pain up my shin on my left leg. It doesn't hurt to do anything at all except run. It seems to hurt me when I get going but fades as I run, although any stops and starts I can feel it again.
Does anyone have any experience with shin pain and treatment? I've had it for a week or so now but today was particularly notable. Funny as I've just finished saying how good my run was. It really was- bar this one thing.
Ali - I suspect niggles like that are quite common to us runners. Nell is the expert and no doubt he will offer some good advice. Suspect you need to do some stretching, foam rolling and massage to ease it out.
Canter - you are right. Today was a lovely day but as I did a hard session yesterday today was all about taking it easy and short. Tomorrow is a long hard / fast tempo type session so will look forward to getting wet.
Was home a little earlier yesterday than planned so popped on the running gear (shorts not tights as it was bright) and headed towards the running track. Plan was for 2 miles w/u, followed by 5 x 1km at 5k-10k pace with 400m jog recoveries and then 2 miles c/d.
Could not run on the track as it was being used so had to do my intervals on a circuit that goes round the track. It was a bit uneven and had a down slope during the first half with an incline to the finish and people to dodge who were out for a stroll with kids / dogs etc.
I probably ran this a little fast but recorded a new record over the km distance.
Splits for the 5 km's were :
4:12 ; 4:10 ; 4:06 ; 4:04 and 4:07 mins which equates to circa 6:30 m/m pace.
Needless to say I thought I was going to die on my 4th rep. Not being on the track meant I ran to feel after the first interval rather than keeping an eye on the pacing as I passed the start / finish line. Pushing up an incline when going fairly flat out is no joke.
Tomorrow night I need to do 10 miles with 6 miles at MP.
Carter - My PB for the HM is circa 1:39 set back in 2013. Can I go faster. Probably if it comes together. I am not sure yet what my game plan will be at Reading. It is a few weeks away and it depends on what the training plan is doing to me at the time. A serious tilt at a PB probably means that I will need to have a mini taper the week of the HM. Plenty of time to decide best approach.
Ricky - I will hang fire on WI 10's until you have had a chance to run them in and see do they get any better. My new pair of WI 9's has arrived so they will get broken in gently the next few days. I am going to see if I can source another pair of WI 9's as contingency as I think I will put a lot of miles on this other pair prior to the marathon.
Good improvement from you in a week.
Those Boston GFA times do look more generous - certainly for men.... After my next birthday it's 3:25 for me so possible.....with a tailwind, downhill profile & a biryani the night before
So if I am right BK - you are the elder statesman here? and the quick man to boot! You must have been a flyer in your heyday!?
Carter - I actually like the garish colours of the Hoka's (must be a mid life crisis) although they do seem a bit pricey. Your training seems to be going really well so far and you seem to be peaking up nicely for a cracking time in Manchester. 2 months to the day!
Ali - wouldn't worry too much, you'll find you'll run through it...just listen to your body if it gets worse/doesn't fade after the first 10mins or so. I used to get shin splints (to the point my shins were tender even to the touch) but they never stopped me running - ultimately a change in trainers seems to cure them. I suppose a bit of icing in a cold bath wouldn't do any harm. My other half goes to spin classes and finds them very addictive - I went once with her and hated it! Then again gyms/treadmills all fill me with dread. The great outdoors every time for me.
Carl - eye watering 1k intervals there - great session to get under your belt.... Once you get through them you always feel so much better for having done it.
No running last night (golf lesson instead on the clubs latest "Trackman" technology which is a must for a statman like myself!! Amazing piece of kit) but it's a nice sunny day here today -so planning a quick exit from the Office @ 5pm to get out for 5 or 6 miles before dark. Will just be a steady pace.
Hi all,
Mind if I join in on this forum? It's been a while since I posted here - back in 2013 when running my first marathon (London in 4'06 following the FIRST plan).
Am running Edinburgh this year and going for sub 4 (using FIRST again) - fingers crossed! Happy training everyone..
Carl- storming kms. You've gotta have a 5k PB coming up soon.
Ricky- the biryani would be essential to your BQ time... please remember!
5m pyramid interval session for me tonight then elliptical and spin for 35 mins combined afterwards. Rest day tomorrow with no exercise at all.
Hi Will- welcome (back) I started posting here just after doing London in 2013 so we must have just missed each other... How's your training going?
Hello again Will - I remember you.... Don't worry I'm just back from a bit of a sabbatical also... How's the training going? A few here doing Edinburgh from memory.
Got a 5 miler done just before sunset ... Lovely evening. Mostly country lanes to avoid the pesky traffic - since moving house I have come to realise all my routes are going to be incredibly hilly. Not a flat route in sight unless I jump in the car and drive somewhere which, as a rule, I don't do! Anyway, all good training I suppose - ran a steady pace and it felt good 9:15; 9:03, 8:20; 8:20 & 7:58 (first 2 miles uphill so felt like an 8:30 effort). ..... Avgd 8:35 and felt reasonably comfortable. Starting to feel the pace coming back which is quite motivational in itself.
Ricky - you are right. The best part about intervals is the buzz you get after you are finished.
Will - welcome back. Been a while. So how is the training coming along.
Ali - good session from you tonight.
So Ricky, it might have been sunny over by you but it is wet, windy and horrible here.
But still went out for my 10 miles with 6 at goal marathon pace.
Hard session actually. 1:21:46 overall time. 6 miles tempo in 47:18 which is 7:53 m/m average.
So before I leave for Dublin tomorrow I need to get 15 miles in. Going to take them steady as the legs will be a tad tired.
Need to dry out the shoes. Wet through.
Hi Ali, what are you training for and how's it going?
hey Ricky I remember! Good to hear from you! Yes a marathon sabbatical last year, the wife banned it As we got married last year - can you believe that?! hows your running and what are you in for?
nice to hear from you too Carl and you look to be going great guns. So funny I regularly run Regent's Park and Hampstead! How is your training and what are you aiming for?
training for Edinburgh just started properly last wk. my gen running has Been going quite well. Ran a few halfs last year and pb'd royal parks in 1'42 which was chuffed with. Also got 10k under 45 for first time in January.
have been building a base for the marathon training so last wk was basically
warm up etc and 2m at 6'37 mile pace on the track
4m easy and 2m at 7'14
long run on Sunday - 13.1m at 8'18 pace (was meant to be 8'30, whoops!). Carl not sure you know it but I do a nice out and back up from Finsbury park on the old railway track, cut across to Highgate and then to kenwood end of Heath and a loop on the heath for my long runs. Bloody hilly but gorgeous.
this wk and the rest follows similar pattern ie
fast 3k
tempo somewhere between half to Mara pace
long run (15 this weekend coming)
Hi Will
I'm training for Manchester on 19th April.
Have got sub 4 once before out of 4 marathons (3:59 at Loch Ness in 2013). Would love to get sub 4 again and that's the goal for Manchester just now.
cool, and how is training going? Some injury niggles looking through the thread??
Canter - thanks for providing the Boston GFA times for the over 80's, that will come in very handy
Ali - shin splints. I had a mild dose of these ones and plenty of calf stretching, toe raises and rollering seemed to help. Don't overdo it.
Carl - you need several pairs of running shoes just in case they get wet or something else happens to one pair. I'm sure Mrs Carl would totally understand ! How did the long run go today ? Enjoy your well earned rest and have a few of the black stuff for me while you're there.
Will - welcome back !
Ricky - I have a similar problem to you in as much I have to drive if I want a short flattish run. I'm ok if it's a long run as I can run to where the flatter stuff is ! You got any golf planned this week ?
PS - have you gone over the pond yet ?
Hi all.
Dipping in as usual.
Carter. Excellent news on the weight loss, I personally couldnt sacrifice the carbs as I love bread too much. Your gonna go bonkers and loopy when you carb load before the big day.
Carl D. Looking stronger and stronger pal everytime I check in on this thread. You seem to be getting a really good mixture of quality and varied sessions which will definitly pay dividends on race day. PB on the horizon for sure.
PS: Cold baths. Not for me, im to much of a wimp. Always a steaming hot radox bath does the job for me. Few scented candles and a rose wine and its a party. lol
Nell. Funny you mention sleep as Ive noticed that on my higher mileage weeks, 40 mile + I tend to wake up in the middle of the night quite often and have quite interupted sleep. Strange that
Ali: Shin pain could be a sign that trainers need replacing?? How many miles have you got under the current ones?
Hi Will. Welcome back to the forum.
I'm at a bit of a crossroads in my plan as I've been running a lot faster since January have lost weight and am generally feeling i great shape. I am thinking of upping my target to 3:15 but I don't know if i'm being silly and to ambitious??
I have a 16 mile run scheduled this Sunday with 12 at MP. I am going to try and run the 12 at 7:25 - 7:30 min / m which is the pace I need to hit that goal. How I fare will tell me alot about my new proposed target. eek.
Watch this space.
So, Friday means weigh in day for me. I didn't think I'd had such a good week this week but the scales prove that I did. Another 2lb gone so a total of 21lbs have disappeared in 7 weeks. I've only had alcohol twice this year too !
A cut back week for me this week. So far I've only done one run of about 5 miles @ MP pace. Tomorrow, I'm doing 15 miles with a friend around Clumber Park. We are doing a recce of the Dukeries Ultra which is a 40 mile event and comes 4 weeks after Manchester. Depending how I feel I think I will enter this as well as it's a flat trail race in the Nottinghamshire countryside.
Carter - a stone and a half in 7 weeks??!! That's fantastic weight loss - there'll be nothing left of you! Club Stableford comp tomorrow - prob be rubbish after my lesson earlier in the week... he changed a few things so fully expect to get worse before I get better!
Will - congrats on tying the knot last year. You're running well by the sounds of things! I stopped running completely for 6 months last summer - a mixture of niggles/lingering injuries, house move & renovations and misplacing of mojo! Pulled the trainers on again over the Xmas hols and am slowly getting up to speed again. No races planned however have my eye on a trail/mountain HM in June. Running 3 times a week totalling about 20mls a week just..... Getting back into it nicely though & enjoying it which is the main thing