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P&D Autumn Marathon Training Thread
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Condor are you going to do any halves between now and Loch Ness? You could use those as a gauge - that's my plan anyway. I suppose you could start off with training to get you under 3.30 and if the tempo runs etc feel easy then start upping the paces.
Condor, What age are you and what are your half times? The right plan is capable of knocking 20 mins off easily particularly if you are coming off the back of a 'comfy full'.
Condor....why don't you train for sub 315, then set yourself 3 goals...e.g. goal A which you'd be over the moon with (3.15), goal B which you'd be pretty pleased with (3.20) and goal C which you'd be satisfied with (3.25).
Well pleased to report no further fuck ups. 4.83miles today all at recovery (kind of) pace apart from last .83 which was 8.50min/miles no idea why this happened and wasn't aware of it happening either if that makes sense it was only when I briefly looked at my Garmin (ok, obsessively look at every 2 mins) that I realised what I was doing. May have to reassess my pacing as I have real trouble at sticking to what I am supposed to.
9 GA miles planned tomorrow - I will stick to this
Ladyfunrun ooh good luck with the GFA that will be my aim at some point, Chester is my first full marathon so would love a 4 hourish finish, and I am already entered for Brighton for April 2014 which will be my aim for GFA unless of course the Chester training kills me!
Managed to rest yesterday and today's 10 miler was only slightly too fast so maybe everything isn't FUBAR. Tomorrow I've got a nice recovery run to do and I hear they are the key to P&D
Thanks for the replies everyone.
Velloo, that's a good suggestion. I don't have any half's scheduled at the moment. Due to family commitments and having a young family (3 & 1) I have to do most of my runs (except LSR's) about 10pm so it won't be easy getting in another race on a weekend. I will see if I can find a local one nearer the time.
Mennania, I'm a 34 y.o. male. I only started running in Jan 2012 and have lost just under 3 stone through it. Thank you running! Half PB is 1:44:12 in April at the Rock n Roll Edinburgh though again that was a hilly route. Not sure how that translates to a 3:33 full on a flat course but I was very pleased that it did.
I think that 15West's suggestion of A, B & C goals is a good one. I like to push (within reason) during training and training for a sub 3:15 would help me get out and get the miles in.
Is there a P&D specific pace calculator that anyone knows about. I would normally use McMillan but that doesn't break down into the P&D groups, general aerobic, etc?
Thanks for all the help and excellent advice.
12 miles @ GA done today, a bit fast (9:15 pace) I thought but HR stayed at 135 average (about 72% max) - P&D base endurance seems to be kicking in already in week 2!
P&D (in the spreadsheet I have for it) says:
I based my runs around this (starting with a slightly optimistic 8:00 min/mile PMP based on my 1:45 HM hilly pre-training PB)
15w I ran Edinburgh in 3.44, got gfa for london so pleased but had ran a 21 mile training run @ 7.59 pace three weeks before Edinburgh, wondering did I peak too early, I ran 4 x 20 milers and a 21 all in and around 8mm in training, just couldn't hold it together on race day
my last half was 1.41.58 tho that in sept last year,no recent halfs! hoping I get to grips with better training this time, only want 12 week plan as said I would only ever run one marathon a year but missing focus already!. ..ladyfunrun. edinburgh was tough, my legs not recovered yet either, have ran a 3 and 4 miler but def plan an easy few weeks. not used to running in heat, more used to rain and hailstorms in my training
. . .
Shaz - seems you did run your long runs bit too fast? Definitely recover properly, what marathon you thinking of?
Mennania - total FUCK up re Breaking Bad. My friend informed me that the whole new series (final part of Series 5) was out on DVD, tithead me just ordered it. Puts it on last night to watch it and it is only what we have already seen on Netflix! The other half was fuming as he had a hard on waiting to see it.
Never mind.
8.4 miles club trail run for me - just under 1000ft climb on the Sandstone trail - just under 1:30 so good time on feet run. It was awful tonight, very hot, tired legs, felt harder than usual but that'll be after doing the tempo last night but good training I suppose. Only got a 4 mile recovery run and 12 miler rest of the week, doesn't seem enough for me, I have been doing 12-15 milers recently, so will do the long runs as per the 55-70 plan I think.
HeOw. planning on Dublin, end if oct, gonna focus on 5 k next few months and stsrt 12 week training august
Morning all...10mi for me today. Going to be a hot one.
Vendor - for paces you need to look in book, or if you don't have the book there is a spreadsheet you can use. I'm probably not as strict with paces as I should be. For long runs I tend to start slow...and try and be nearer marathon pace towards last few miles. For all GA/MLR runs I just run as fast as I feel like, so maybe be slow like a recovery if I'm aching and knackered, or close to marathon pace if I'm feeling strong...normally it's somewhere inbetween. Recovery runs I keep having to check myself to run slow...the point of these is recovery which means getting some blood to those muscles, nothing more.
4 mile PB for me last night - only because I've never raced a 4 miler before! Chuffed though because I've felt pretty rough this week and did think about not doing it at all, but I think the lack of running since Sunday meant I had relatively fresh legs. Taking it easy for the rest of the week (apart from a 10k race on Saturday!) - then back to the plan on Monday.
Well done on smashing your PB ACP!
Nice PBing acp!
. 8:11 av. pace - that's decent for me 
Shaz: like others said - you benefit more from running the long runs at the slower end of the spectrum, or at least the majority and perhaps speed up over towards the end if you feel strong.
A good 12 miler for me this morning. Absolutely beautiful in glorious sunshine
Hello...10mi in 70mins at lunchtime. Was hot, but there was a nice breeze so not too bad. Feeling a bit achy now.
I patiently await my book
Hi all,
Glad to read that people aren't following the plan to the letter - I've messed up my 1st week and I haven't even started yet! I've entered a 10 mile race next Weds. I haven't raced all year so don't think I'll be in great shape. I haven't done a 10 miler since 2011 though so I guess at best I might get an ok time and get a good indication of where I am at the start of the plan. At worse I'll have a nice run out in a different area and get a good indication of where I am, so I can't really lose.
On the topic of doing long / recovery runs too fast, do people think real speed work would help with this? It is an area I struggle with and I never really push my pace so there is little difference between my race pace for differing distances. If I was pushing flat out at least once a week I was thinking I should get faster, but would it also make me slow down the other runs out of tiredness etc? Am thinking of replacing some recovery runs with some mid-week short races over the summer and hitting them hard to see what happens.
Shaz, I love the Dublin marathon, I'm almost envious!
I thought point of recovery running was building on fatigued legs - so you run slow but even still, you are doing a good workout because your legs are tired. So, you get stronger. Hence why the more miles you do, the stronger you get and the more miles in the higher volume plans are just recovery miles aren't they?
K.P. if you follow the plan and start to push pace up on the LT sessions, you will find you get faster anyway. Do not start replacing recovery runs with races! You'll be injured and burned out quickly. The sheer volume of miles extra will aid to help you get faster. It usually is mental re pace, it is not that you can't do it, (not you personally, this is a sweeping statement!) but choose not to push too far out of comfort zone. I know after a few easy weeks of running post Manchester, the thought of doing a 7:30m/m (my LT pace) was terrifying!
According to P&D the point of recovery running is recovery. They're for getting blood to flow through muscles to help repair damaged muscles etc - they are not the same as training runs. If you do them fast then you're training (damaging) muscles more, not helping them to recover quicker. Some people find recovery runs help more than others...some people (nutters/elites) often do a short recovery run later in the day after a harder session. If you find the increased mileage of a recovery run does not help you recover and just makes things worse, replace with a rest day or cross training.
I was enjoying the Rome atheltics on BBC3 until my darling daughter demanded that it was spongebob squarepants time.
elsewhere on t'internet it says different, so you may well be right actually HeOw. For once. e.g.
http://www.active.com/running/Articles/A_fresh_perspective_on_recovery_runs
acp nice PBing.
Chick nice pace there on your 12 miler.
9 mile MLR for me this evening. Glad to hear that pacing is not everyone's strong point as rather then run at 10.00 min /miles I was running 9.20min/miles
. Felt comfy though thats the main thing.
Has anyone trained at the paces as suggested by the McMillan calculator as these seem to be very different from what I worked out from the recommendations in the book - however they seem to be the paces that I naturally seem to run at?
Rest/recovery day tomorrow - which will be another non- twatty pilates class.
Recovery to me would equal doing fuck all!? Running, no matter how slow, would equal training, also some of the recovery runs are 7 miles, that is a "training" run, no matter how they dumb it down.
I am just flicking between the 33-55 plan and the 55-70 and have decided on this: ***drum rollllll*** I am going to just run 4 days a week and do the 4 main sessions from the 55-70 and drop the recovery runs. That means, I will get decent miles in but loads more rest and have bought a (shite) bike today so will use that instead of doing more miles on legs. Also means I can focus of strengthening too. I will stick to the club trail run, the MLR can also be done on trails, then tempo/LT run on roads as well as long run.
Lisa, I rarely use McMillan for long run paces, they would have me injured within a week! In fact, my mate did and that is what happened to her.
Chick - coming back to life then, you feeling bit more yourself re training?
Well done ACP, what was your 4 mile time?
if you run real slow you are not providing any stimulus at all really...you could get away with walking. So...your muscles will be getting more blood flow which helps fix them, but will not be getting any more damage. QED.
HeOw, thanks. That's always been my understanding of recovery runs as well. I'd say though that my ability to run on tired legs is my strength when it comes to running. I 've done quite a few triathlons as well so that's always been something I could rely on. I do agree that more miles improve your speed as I have continued to speed up, only very gradually. I was looking back at last year's training log and found my long run pace started around 8:50 minute miles dropped to 8:35 3 weeks out and on the day I ran 8:26. I didn't follow a seT plan but near the race had runs of 5 - 8 miles in the 7:30 - 7:45 average range. None of my runs averaged over a 9:00 average so i do seem to be a proper one pace pony! Looking at P&D I have only hit the paces recommended for my VO2 max sessions in races (which i rarely do) so was thinking in the earlier weeks it might be worth adding a few short races to push myself harder and actually give myself something to recover from!
hope you enjoy the bike, I definitely think cross-training helps with injury avoidance, and I found it helped with my ability to cope with training load. I just always preferred swimming!
nice running Lisa, I agree on the importance of feeling good with a pace.
Well, I agree with 15W because I find recovery runs make me feel, well, recovered. e.g. I would do one the day after a race.
I feel more recovered resting though, however, I reckon my recovery pace is probably a tad too fast.
Ha, bet it's faster than mine.
What's yours...?
K.P - majority of us would be one pace ponies, just takes a little bit of pushing yourself and you do see results. Any parkruns near you?