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Pfitzinger Race Thread 2015
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Thanks for posting that, Westy. I too was a bit concerned re the lack of MP miles in P&D. When I ran a marathon before, virtually all my long runs were around MP/MP+20secs. My long runs this time around were at a similar pace to before, despite targeting a time 15 mins faster. But I think the speed work and MWLR in P&D really help. I actually found the last 6 miles easier this time around than before. So I'd be happy to use P&D again but can see that Hansons works too.
Edit. Also P&D undeniably WORKS. Have we just been lucky that we didn't need to do the really specific stuff?
With a week to go just trying final week of 10k plan, been a while and 0.75 at race pace with 4x 100 strides a pulse raising, puffing intro! Looks a great book though esp with all the plans
Between Hansons and P&D, I don't think there's much in it. I found them very similar, though having done a few P&Ds, it was "nice" to try some different workouts. As long as your plan has these elements (like both Hansons and P&D do), I don't think you can go far wrong:
As many miles per week as you can handle / find time for.
Medium and long runs, with some miles at MP.
Tempo miles, either in one stretch or as intervals.
Dossy recovery runs.
Easy runs with strides.
Long-ish intervals at 5K pace.
Good luck tomorrow Scott!
Hello Ray! I have never heard that recovery runs should be harder than GA. Where did you read that?
Ferg - are you asking us to write you a plan?
There will be a cost... Seriously though I think Hansons is race specific enough for me. Wouldn't want to do any more MP miles!
Westy the main differences between the book and the plan I did (60-80) are:
- Book has long runs every other weekend and peaks at 3 * 16. Downloaded plan has long runs every weekend and peaks at 6 * 20!
- Book does speed first and then strength (LT). Downloaded plan mixes them throughout. I think Hansons don't really know what the order should be
- Book just has easy long runs. Downloaded plan puts MP miles in quite a few long runs.
- Book will feel easy after 70mpw P&D. Downloaded plan is nasty, demanding and relentless.
Definitely interesting reading that Westy, thank you.
Admittedly, when doing the increasingly long vo2 max runs I the last few weeks of P&D I did wonder what the point was.
And, I like the theory of doing the long runs on already tired legs in the Hansons plan, but I'd be concerned about injury risks?
For now I'll be sticking with Mr P but potentially adapting some of the sessions to be more specific.
Hello Ray & AP
P&D does work. Infact they all work. But sometimes I think you might need to try something different to take you further if you reach some sort of plateau. Have to weigh it all up though...the 60-80 Hansons one followed by Andrews/Ramjet obviously works...but doesn't sound much fun! Not sure if I want to go over 70mi/wk really.
...anyway...Morning.
6mi jog for me today. Supposed to get all wet and windy, so should be fun. No gym tonight as off to see Super Furry Animals.
Good points made Westy and andrews in particular. I think you're right that they all work, it's a question of which is more realistic for fitting into your own life/abilities/preferences. See what you mean about a change being needed sometimes too. I'm hoping mixing up some work on shorter distances over the summer will do a similar job.
Hi penguin, how did your marathon go? Wasn't it an early one or did I make that up or confuse you with someone else?
Ramjet, how's the foot?
Still waiting for my book to arrive. Been sat patiently by the letter box since Friday. The porch floor is cold
LFR, the long runs on tired legs is feature of P&D too, with the long runs the day after tune-up races. Horrible!
Westy, I think I have reached a level where I would now struggle to improve. To do so I think I'd need to ramp up the mileage and do more double days. I'd happily do that, but I quite like being married.
Me too Andrews...can't be bothered to try and fit in extra mileage on top of everything else...
Sounds like you need a Kindle Madbee. The books come so much quicker!
Foot is a bit better thanks. Got some nice squishy insoles now to make work shoes softer. Gonna try 5 miles at lunch. Have you tried a run yet?
Not yet Ramjet, but I'll be going out tonight with the club, so that should be a good test. I'll probably stick with the middle group and not push the pace too much. Glad you're on the mend.
Thought I would share that I have lost 2lb's since the marathon!
Just alot of easy running for me. Have run in the rain 3 times in as many days - I don't remember doing that during winter training!
Weather here has gone total shite just in time for my lunchtime run.
The Weather was horrible last night and got 6 miles done the hip flexor was grumbling a little so I will need to keep an eye on that!
Westy thanks for posting the email, I've been wondering why we do VO2 max workouts at the end of the plan and kind of agree that the workouts should be more race specific.
Got out for 7.5 miles last night and the legs are now coming back to life. Only 24 days until my next marathon!!
Ramjet - in Table 1.2 of the book it shows GA as 70-81% of MHR and Recovery as under 76%. I am just doing the Recovery at under 70% which makes more sense to me
Good debate folks, it seems as if alot of us have similar thoughts re MP, maxing out at 70ish miles and the fact that we're all searching for tweaks to schedules that we know deliver the goods.
Westy enjoy the Super Furries ce soir
Madbee's on Grammar Police patrol again
andrews148, you could do more mileage and stay married if you let Wenty move in as planned and get some kind of civil partnership.
Will read Westys mammoth comparison when I get home tonite, but sure it will boil down to what Andrews said - with tweaks. I am going to try and get a specific training regime written for me, will be interesting to see how that compares,
Re recovery v GA - I was once told a recovery run takes as long as it takes until your legs loosen up and start feeling better, then you stop - the idea being to get blood to help muscle recovery without getting you heartbeat up at all.
Enjoy my fellow country mates Westy.
I was supposed to go down to three days and planned doing doubles on the days off to save the family life - but that just never happened due to workload. Hopefully soon it will
Now there's an idea Ferg!
Welcome AG
Good luck with a 10km
Agree with you Westy that they all work, but it will help trying something different as one plan won’t work for all
Nice work acp, I have put on 5lbs in comparison
I plan to incorporate more doubles over the summer
Loved the marathon relays!! My company had 18 teams in the event and we came 4th. I ran the final leg and overtook 3
As I'm not allowed to run at max. I kept my HR at 87%. I deliberately turned off pace on my Garmin as I wanted to run on feel and try to take as many scalps as possible without blowing up
Anyway, it's a neat event but no PB course. On my stretch alone I crossed over or passed under 11 bridges!! And there's long stretches with cobbles. But Prague is wonderful and it was all expenses paid including a pasta party at the best Italian in town and a post race BBQ with free beer
I'll deffo do it again next year.
But now for some HM training. Off to consult the road racing book
Cobbles on a marathon course
. Sounds like an enjoyable trip though chicksta, glad you enjoyed it.
Sounds fantastic Chicksta, not too sure about the cobbles though :S
Gutted re the garmin chick! And 18 teams!! Your company must be full of willing runners.
Well done, great result.
Nice 8 for me tonight, a bit hilly so had to put in more effort than I would have liked but I enjoyed doing some overtaking
I'm happy to report a pain-free, bounce-filled 7 miles tonight. Left the boys for dead on the last hill. One more week of easy and patient, then I'm back on it
So -question re: recover runs- If you are really slow, like me, a 7mile recovery run ( in the post marathon "recovery" plan) would take a long time if I keep HR down to desired zone...................any other definition of a recovery run that I've seen limits them to about 30mins max- this will be well over an hour- do you think that's the intent?
I am never sure whether, as a slow runner, I should be scaling down these recovery runs so that they are no longer than 30 minutes? What do you think?