A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)

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  • Hello all

    Had fun at the Reading HM, some good bits to the race and some equally bad, started off trying to keep a nice even pace (8.30 pace) but gave up on that after a couple of miles and got into the race finishing in 1.41, Stadium finish being the best thing about the day

    Feel I have a lot more energy this week, probably because of the drop in mileage but plan to pick it up with a 20 miler mid-week before the Hastings half on Sunday, did my Yassos today and finished with something still left in the can (3.30 pace)

    Purchased my race trainers on Monday,NB 765's, I feel a bond with them already, we're going to get to know each other real well over the next 6 weeks
  • morning all

    hi freddo, 1.41 is pretty good for a 1/2m, my best is only 1.43 and that was a couple of years ago and 1/2 stone lighter. Still I seem to be losing weight again and feeling good in training at the moment so hopefully on track for 3.45 .Doing fartlek today, 8-10 laps of ilkley park with a mate, then a couple of days easy running before 20+ on sat. Looks like I'll be running in the rain today, yippee!!, lets hope we have a nice day on the 18th, nearly 4 hours of rain does not seem very appealing

    Thanks for reminding me I need to get my race trainers in the next few days so I can break them in for the big one. Been using aisics gelkeyano'sfor the last few years , anyone know any good web sites where you can get them cheap ??

    Happy running all

    catch you later

    pete
  • hi guys

    I'm back from Cannes today where due to working 16 hour days i didn't get the daily coastal runs i was hoping for - infact just one and that was pitch black !!.

    The morning i was flying out i run 13.1 miles in 1.46 (which is a pb) so hoping my speed work is making a difference. My goal is to tun 20 miles in 3 hours this sunday (did it in 3 hour 5 a coupl eof weeks ago).

    I know you shouldn't run this distance at marathon pace but as a rookie you need to know what your capable of in order to set your race goals.

    Quick question, I'm organising a t-shirt with my name on it, should it be front and back ? and does the race number not cover it ?

    Good training all

    Adam
  • Hi All

    Just sneaking up from the sub-4 thread to see how it's going in here... and from the looks of all these long runs and fast times I can see it's going remarkably well.

    I'm getting more and more confident (touch wood) on being in the sub-3:52:30 category -I destroyed my half-marathon PB last weekend - and so my dreams of keeping you lot honest are still alive - just as I can see some of you have plans to take on the 3:30 crowd.

    Keep up the good work - see you at 26.3 for a beer or five!

    BTNM
  • hi adam

    you only need your name on the front of your t-shirt, it's only the people running behind you who see it if it's on your back, and they tend to be too knackered to shout out !!. If you put it on the front right at the top of your t-shirt you should be able to put your number underneath. Make it big letters so everyone can see it and you'll get a couple of thousand shouts. Towards the end I tend to run close to the crowd just to hear them shout to keep me going.

    I think you'll find the 3 hr 20 miler no problem , the more long ones you do the easier it gets. Doing anything today ?

    cheers

    pete
  • Hi

    Adam I agree with your...we know we shouldn't but...without going at a reasonable pace for a reasonable distance how do you have a good idea what you can do.
    I don't want to be trying a new pace for for 26 miles on the day, I want to be doing something I think is possible

    Same as most others for me start faster and die later when getting PB's. My usual tactic is to try to aim at a pace which would bring me in a minute or two under my PB on 10K and 1/2m races then try to hang on to it as long as possible

    Did 10 miles at 7.46 pace last night, felt OK. My best 1/2M is 8.00 pace. I have a 20 mile race on saturday and was planning on pushing it a bit to give me an idea of what I could do on the 18th April. I was thinking of starting off aiming for between 8.00 and 8.15 pace miles - any thoughts
  • twin - sounds pretty quick to me - what kind of FLM time are you aiming for ?

    I'm gonna hit the treadmill tonight as i've got one at home and have my babies to look after while 'her in doors' goes out on the lash !!
  • same as me...treadmill night tonight with baby monitor on loud ( over the football also on loud )

    aiming at 3.45 strange as it may seem on this thread... I've done a 20 mile plus training run (hitting 20 miles at 8.26 pace) but I'm getting good at struggling after that ( also done a 19 and a 23 miler - with two more 20+'s after this weekend planned )
  • Adam, I'd put your name on the front for the crowds and on your back so that your fellow runners (including forumites) can cheer you on too!
  • Twin Dad - I'd suspect that rather than racing the 20 flat out, you'd be better off doing what I did last weekend and doing it at your best estimation of marathon pace. During the last few miles you can evaluate (a) whether you can hang on for another six miles at that pace and (b) whether you could have gone quicker. My race took a lot more out of me than an ordinary, slow one, and a flat-out race would have been a killer. On the other hand, as you suspect, it's a great boost to have done it. So I'd say 8:15, not 8:00, then do the rest more like 8:45. Well, that's my plan anyway!

    Quick other point - going off fast and hanging on is one thing in a shorter race (or even in a 20), but a marathon is another thing altogether. Once you're out of glycogen, you're stuffed, and 22 miles fast then four miles walking isn't going to get you your quickest time. Steady early on, says the theory.
  • "then do the rest more like 8:45" - I mean the rest of your long runs.
  • Twin Dad, I have a 20 mile race a week on Saturday, so it's interesting to hear what you're planning on doing.

    I am going to try to take it at marathon pace (8.5min miling) and see how I do. Hopefully there will be some milemarkers so I can guage my pace. This will be my longest run to date, so we'll have to wait and see. Fingers crossed...

    On another subject, what socks are you folks wearing for big race?
  • Now we're onto the real issues!

    I'll be running in my special thick, cosy Hilly socks. Mmm... non-blister-tastic....
    Shoewise, I had nominated my newish Brookses, but I've been favouring them too much recently (over my older, knackered-er ones) and they've topped 230 miles. I've just christened a new pair, but will they be bedded in in time? Decisions, decisions.....

    (club vest, dark blue Ronhill shorts, haven't decided on pants.....)
  • i don't wear pants...sorry this was the kinkyrubber running rude forum wasnt it ??
  • OK - for Sunday...advice taken...I think I'm going to try for an even paced 2.45. so therefore 8.15 pace for 20 miles It also looks like there is another couple of forumites doing the same thing (Ashby).

    To clarify my earlier post....I do always slow down during a race / run ( no matter whether I start fast or slow...ie even on long slow runs). Therefore I was thinking of starting at 8.00 - 8.15 and perhaps ending nearer 8.30 - 9.00. So giving me an average of 8.30 ish for the whole run

    Socks undecided - I now have 4 different types and I'm fairly indifferent between them
    Shoe wise my Saucany Triumphs
    Top Wise - the nice vest the British Heart Foundation sent me
  • hi all

    one thing i will be wearing on the day is loads of vaseline around the tender bits !!On my first FLM had to grab some off the St Johns Ambulance crew stood towards the end with handfulls of the goo held out to the suffering runners. I didn't stop running but it sure looked indecent as I slapped it on. Only other thought really is DO NOT wear anything you have not already run a 20+ in, the last 6 miles of the marathon is not the time to find out it rubs you raw.

    Twin Dad, 8.00 to 8.15 mileing sounds pretty good to me, if you can keep that up for 20 miles you'll have a bit of leeway for the last 6.2 . Beware though, from experience I know just how much you can slow down at the end, last year i think i was around 10.30 for the last couple of miles ouch !!

    Still, did my second speed sesh this week (yet again , aren't i good !), 9 laps fartlek of ilkley park averaging 3.15 as opposed to 8 laps at 3.30 last week, so hopefully still improving. Must admit feeling better at this stage than any of the previous 3 years, no major aches and pains, how is everyone else?

    pete
  • Swerve - what is the "model" of your Hilly socks? I am still experimenting. I have done most of my running in bog standard ones with no problems. But then I got a bad blister 2 weeks ago, so I bought some Thorlos (are there diamind encrusted or something? they should be for that price!), but they are so ultra-padded that I'm not sure there are for me yet.

    Shoes: I'll be wearing my Nike Air Span Triax. They've probably done a couple of hundred miles but they are going strong and I don't fancy get new ones at this stage.

    Top: Cancer Research UK vest

    Pants: Posing Pouch Thong with Elephant's trunk at the front.

    (Joke).

    I've just returned from a 1hr fartlek session. I felt fairly strong considering how crap I felt after my long run on Monday morning. HOWEVER, I am worried because on Monday a pain developed on the sole of my foot which I managed to run through without too much difficulty. However, today it recurred after about 1/2 a mile and was (and is still) quite painful. I think it developed because I went for a walk at the weekend in some awful shoes that killed my feet. Dammit.

    I think I am going to rest now until my 1/2m on Sunday, and see what happens.

    Any advice?

  • Puggers, maybe a foot massage and having a rest sounds a good idea, also the Thorlo's, I bought a bag full in the States last year thinking they were the bees knees but they proved a disaster, the padding is so thick on the bottom that I lost several toe-nails through bruising, and they made my feet too hot, its Falke's and Hillys for me now.

    Did some hill work today before heading for my first 20 miler tomorrow (18 has been my regular long run so far)feeling on top of things still so thats good (untill tomorrow)

    Peter 3.15 fartleks sounds quick, well done, I've been persisting with 10 x 3.30 but might step up a bit as yesterday I did finish with more in the tank on mine (not in the can as I wrote yesterday,occured to me at the top of a hill today)

    Gear, my NB'S which I bought Monday, Falke's, whatever shorts and a green NSPCC vest, good job its a good cause as the colour's cr*p. Does anyone use those belt things for bottles and stuff, any opinions, are they useful on the big day or annoying(just seen the article in this months RW Mag)

    Anyone at Hastings Sunday
  • While we're mentioning it, I've got my race shoes already for the day. I race and train in NB 764's and have 3 pairs on the go. My race pair I've only used three times for long runs runs only and not training at all otherwise in them. So by race day they will only have about 100 miles of wear.

    I already know exactly what I'm wearing on the day: Powersocks, Black Adidas Shorts and a bright orange Nike T-shirt that I'm going to get my name printed on. The dilemna is should I include my forum nickname or not? I'm sure many runners will have seen some of my posts on these forums over the past couple of years so I was thinking maybe nickname and possible Table Tennis Man picture on back and with my real name on front.

    I use a bottle carrier on my long runs and wore it all the way in my first marathon so I may use it again in the race if I can't get used to Lucozade. I'm going to try Lucozade Sport on my next long run to see if it goes down well.

    I have to admit I'm not actually running for charity. I had thought about it but it's only just over 6 months since I last did the charity "scrounge rounds" on friends and work colleagues. I'll give them a break for a bit longer.
  • Bottle belts - I have used one for all my long runs so far and it is handy. However, it does bounce around quite a lot. When I wear my waterproof jacket it sort of keeps everything together, but on the day of the race I'll only have my running vest so I haven't decided what to do.

    Does anybody know how frequent there are water stations are? I presume there is water as well as Lucozade Sport. I thought if there are enough stations then I could ditch the belt because I'm happy carrying bottles for a while. I'm going to get myself a small bum-bag to put my energy bars and things in. What a girl eh?
  • Go for the full works on the t-shirt, although I'm having the same thoughts, forum name or first name or something else entirely ! (what my wife calls me maybe, hmmm)
  • Puggers beware the Thorlos socks. My sis sent me some last year & they felt heavenly so went off on a 2hr 40min run in them. Trouble is they are SO thick it made my running shoes rel tight & when I took them off my big toe nails came off too. I swear by Tesco sports socks. 3 for a fiver & not a blister cf Wrights/ 100mile etc when my feet fall apart








  • Puggers

    Water is every mile (starts at mile3 I think). LS every 5 miles.

    Higs
  • Folks,

    As you may know, I ran my 1st ever marathon 5 weeks ago in 3.49 & am now looking to knock a bit of time off at the FLM.

    My question is, what is the course like? I.e. hills/flat? My first marathon was virtually flat - a few gradual rises but nothing bad!
    I am a little worried that I will be slower if London has a few hills!

    Much appreciated for any advice that can be given.

    Regards, Gareth
  • morning guys/girls

    I feel kind of ok but have a stinking cold -i read recently that you shouldn't run with a cold as it put additional strain on the heart - i ran on the treadmill last night and although i felt ok when the going got tough i had no resolve to continue and had to slow right down - your opinions welcome !!
  • Hi all

    Puggers sounds to me like the socks could be the culprit ,perhaps try without them and a goot foot massage is definately a good idea, i have a physio session on my legs every 4-6 weeks and it seems to keep problems at bay (even at the ripe old age of 46, 47 2 days after the FLM)

    Freddo . have used a bottle bag for the last few years, but it's a good idea for a couple of practice runs with it first, didn't last year and ended up carrying the damm thing.

    Smooth, it's fairly flat, a few incline's and up and down a couple of underpasses but certainly nothing you would call a hill so it's a pretty fast route ( using the word fast as a loose description)

    adam , depends on the type of cold, if it's a head cold you should be ok to train but if it's on your chest the advice is Not to train until it's gone as overexerting will simply make it a lot worse.

    what's the training for today? have done 2 speed sessions mon and tues so going for a nice easy couple of laps of ilkley park today.

    pete
  • Thanks for the advice everyone. I had a massage at work today which was good. I was told off for being ultra-unsupple (and yes I do stretch after all runs). The masseur reckons that if he can make that better over the next few weeks I could run faster simply because my stride will be longer with no extra effort - interesting theory that had never crossed my mind!

    I think I'll ditch the Thorlos and try some Tesco socks. I have also been running in some Morrison's own make which are fine - bargain at 4 for £2!! At that price they're almost disposable after each use!
  • Gareth, London is generally described as flat...(They say the biggest hill is crossing one of the bridges ).

    Don't necessarily expect a pb though.- Everyone also says its incredibly crowded.
  • I think the biggest hill is going up to Tower Bridge but I'm told the crowds there are 10 deep so they should help keep you moving (mile 13 anyway) also Bird Cage walk is a bit of an incline but everything will be hurting by then.

    20 miles today in just over 2.45, all fine untill the last couple of miles predicatably but sill feeling confident, how can I fail in London on the day when I've managed 20 miles around the void of Harlow (it must be the town that stops other runners returning my Hello's) Why do I use this route, the cyclepaths are wide and kind of rural in places and no cars. I did however get a hello and do a lap for me from a mini cab driver picking up on route, how is it that a cab driver can be sociable but other runners not ?

    Where did I put my good Karma...

  • morning all

    looks like todays run will be in the snow, hoping it disappears for tomorrows 23+ effort. Twin Dad just re-reading your comment about slowing down towards the end of the race no matter how slow. Did Brass Monkey 1/2m last year with a friend who was doing her first race and wanted to break 2.00. Set off at a steady pace and only left her around 9 miles and pushed hard for the last 4 miles. Felt really good, overtook loads of people and ended up with a 1.50 (not bad but more chufed that my friend finished in 1.58) and still felt very fresh at the end. This year on the same race sprinted off at start with whippet mate, sub 7.30 for the first few miles. Ended up hanging on for over half the race and finished in 1.49 feeling crap. You definately don't want to hang on for the last half of the FLM so this year I'm really gonna try and hang back a bit at the start.

    Yesterdays easy run round ilkley park ended up quite a bit quicker than i wanted running with a couple of mates who are a lot better than me. However the speed work seems to be paying off, although my heart rate touched 153 in places, still felt comfortable and relaxed so hopefully the 3.45 is not a pipe dream.

    good running everyone, catch you later

    pete
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