A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)



  • Puggers, brilliant stuff. But be warned - we may be voting you out to the sub-3:30 thread (or quicker). ;-)

    PPB, shame about the injury, but very interesting results.

    Rather than run/walk, I did my usual jog/jog round the Stamford 30K today at 5:12/K (i.e. mara) pace. Looking quite good for the mara, though I really wouldn't have fancied another 12.2K! Hope everyone else had good long 'uns today.
  • I just came back from the Meon Valley Plod. I did the 19 (or 19.5) miles in 3:39, so that gives me about 6 minutes to run the last 7 miles. But it isn't as bad as it sounds, there were really steep mountains there, we had to walk them. The last one at mile 15 took me 40 minutes to walk, this is a 20 minutes per mile average, so on the flat in London it should go better.
    But now I have my first really long run in, time vise I stepped up by over 90 minutes, milevise by 3.
    Next are the national XC championships where I don't want to be last, then Bramley 20 mile run which is the day after the north of the thames championships, so only long run in race gear.
  • Sorry about your injury PPB. Still, at least you're managing to get the long oes in without really exacerbating it. Hopefully you'll shake it off soon. If not, you could always run/walk the FLM - you'd probably still manage a good time even if you couldn't hit your target. I'm going to try it on Sunday (3hrs). Just ordered "War and Peace" on audio book so that will keep me going for many long runs to come!!

    Lars, I think the hill training is really good practice, and as you say, the times don't matter one bit - as long as you're on out on the road for a long time then you're getting the endurance benefits that you need.
  • Lars - that will really have built up your strength and just think how easy the next long run is going to seem in comparison!

    PPB - Are you not running all the way because of the injury then at the moment? My only worry would be that your body might be a bit shocked if you don't stop to walk if you've been doing it in training! Interesting that you felt less tired at the end but maybe that was due to a slower pace overall? What is your normal long run pace at the moment?

    Puggers - that's a fantastic 10K time. Sounds like you'll easily achieve a sub 3:45. Have you got any half marathons planned? Perhaps you should be aiming for a quicker time?

    Realised I was going to top 60 miles if I ran on Saturday too so had a day off in honour of Valentines day. After that glorious 2 day rest set off none too enthusiastically on Sunday. Getting quite lonesome on these 3 and half hour runs now. Really just wanted to make it round and get home. Great motivation and competed 24 miles in 3 hours and 27 minutes so quite pleased with that. To fast for training though but not too many long runs left what with Reading half, the 2 RW pacing runs and the blessed tapering in April!
  • Wow - I'm impressed Donna - you're doing brilliantly I think. If I had notched up a 24 miler already then I would be much more confident than I am.

    I have one 1/2m planned - am aiming for sub 1.37m (pb currently 1.39 and a bit). I know that according to these times I should be able to get nearer 3.30, but I just find the step up in distance quite daunting, and expect myself to blow up if I go off to fast. I thought I would set myself a (hopefully) achievable target, and then in the unlikely event of feeling strong with a few miles left I can always quicken up.
  • Puggers - Can quite understand what you're saying about not wanting to go off too fast. At what point will you up the pace on the day if you're feeling strong? 18? 20?

    You should cover a fair distance on Sunday if you're planning on going for 3 hours - maybe that'll help build your confidence.

  • I'd just like to say that the title of this thread made me laugh.

  • Donna, 60 Miles! Take it easy girl. Are you following your boyfriends training schedule? That's HUGE distance.

    Following on from my earlier posts about using Run/Walk for my Long training runs. I don't really want to do this. But with only a limited amount of time before the race I'd rather cover the time and distance in some way in which I can cope with the pain. I'll still be running a half marathon next month and will try a couple of non-stop long runs before race day as well. Incidentally my normal Long Run training pace is about 8:15 per mile.

    If the pain doesn't really subside much then I may just have to Run/Walk the entire race for London. I think I'd still break 4 Hours, which wouldn't be too disastrous, but as I started this thread I feel an obligation to atleast try and break 3:45 (chip time not clock time) for the race.

    Have a good running week folks.


  • Regarding mileage, I'm using a quality rather than quantity approach - long runs and speedwork, pretty much cutting out the mid-range steady stuff that I used in the autumn to bulk up my mileage. Speedwork makes you faster at ALL speeds, and long stuff is obviously needed to get you in shape to make it to the finish, but isn't that about all you need? Anyway, it's working beautifully well for me, and I haven't yet hit 35 miles in a week this time (thus keeping me away from the dreaded physio!).

    Any views?
  • Swerve - I know what each of my runs are for, even if they are just recovery runs, so I'm targeting different paces (or time on my feet for Sundays). I know my mileage is high but I'm also keeping close tabs on how my body feels day to day. I think it's a case of knowing what works for you, although to be fair there's a lot of guess work involved for me - but I usually do best with practise.

    Sounds like you're in a fortunate position of lower mileage paying dividends.

    PPB - sounds like a sensible approach. How's things with the knee? What are you doing to treat it?

    I'm intending to taper, so my approach is train as hard as I can wihtout injury and without compromising my speed workouts too much whilst there's time to build strength.
  • Donna, I will probably wait until at least 20 miles - even though 6 doesn't sound like much in the context of a marathon, it can be a hell of a long way if you're knackered, so I don't want to blow all the good work by quickening to early. Hee hee listen to us - I'll be happy to get round in under 4hrs. 3.45 or better would be a real bonus.

    Swerve, you're a man with the same plan as me. I run 3 times a week - long, tempo and speed, and it works great for me. I just can't muster up the motivation to run more than this, and my body seems not to like it either. But Donna, as you say, it's a personal thing, and if you're coping with the mileage you're doing then good for you.
  • We all agree, training and distances are a very personal thing. I don't think anyone was knocking Donna for running 60 miles. I'm training for triathlon as well as competing at Table Tennis, as a result my run training has to be restricted to at most 4 or 5 days a week.

    For my knee injury I'm just taking Ibruprofen and using Deep Heat while wearing a stretch bandage. It's quite basic medicine but I do find it helps. I managed 5 completely pain free miles today in 38 minutes. The pain only ever really appears when increase the time.
  • That's okay, I didn't think anyone was knocking me. I do worry about getting the balance right myself.

    PPB - sounds like you have a very full schedule. Are you training for the London triathlon this Summer?

    Presumably there is some underlying problem with your knee - have you investigated what might be the cause? I had some problems with my knee when I started increasing the mileage last year. Included some quad strengthening exercises in my yoga practice to help support the knees.

    Has anyone been practising with lucozade on their runs yet? Stopped just before 3 hours the Sunday before last to buy some just to see how my stomach would react but could only get the purple one in a bottle. My local Sainsbury's seems to be permanently out of stock!
  • Tried the Lucozade approach last year, didn't work. I must have drunk 3 or 4 pints of it during the marathon (had a bad day), the worst is that the stuff is sticking on your shoes and every L. station will be terrible to run throug because the road is like glue. They should ban it, but GSK is a sponsor so they can't.

    I will stick to my only water and gel approach, worked fine for me in Berlin. I might even carry my own bottle around which is easier than cups and always available, and the belt has a pocket for gels.
  • I actually started a "I hate Lucozade" thread a while back, so my thoughts on it are quite clear. I think I'll have to run London with my water bottle containing probably Powerade or something more palatable than Lucozade. It's Lucozade Sport that they give out in the race so if you're going to train with it make sure you get the right one.

    I had Physio and a Doctor look at my knee when I had problems last year. The only real solution and rehabilitation they suggested was rest. Not what a runner wants to hear. I'm just going to train to complete London & Edinburgh marathons. Then for the rest of the year it will all be Triathlon training. As the run in an Olympic Distance Triathlon is only 10K then I'll be cutting out the very long distances that should help knee rehabilitation.

    I'm training for Triathlons in Scotland as they're more local. The London Tri would have been too expensive to get myself and my Bike to the race. I may, though, take part in the London Tri or UK Half Ironman next year.

    Are you running today folks? It'll be 10 Miles for me today in around 1 Hr 20.
  • PPB - Sounds like maybe a second opinion could be in order for your knee - did they say what the cause was?

    Sorry I forgot you were based in Aberdeen(?) I can well imagine that it could cost a fair bit to transport a bike.

    I don't usually use sports drinks (a bit of Ribena when I get back is nice though). Don't really like the idea of carrying stuff around. Use a pint RunAid bottle on my long runs but I've never really got used to it. Where do you store gels? Lucozade Sport orange in pouches isn't it (that they give out for free on the day)? Will continue searching.

    Can imagine that the road does get glue like. Was bad enough avoiding sponges at Watford half!

    Yep, planning to go the track tonight so I'm left guessing what the session will be until 7. Usually a 10k targeted session on a Tuesday though.
  • Donna, last year I bought the pouches from Safeway, they had a 3 pouches box. But I changed to powder which was cheaper and I could use a big bottle instead of 3 pouches for a run.

    Also track today, but on Tuesdays we are at Paddington. Will be tough after the Plod on Sunday.
  • Yes Lars, similarly wondering how my legs will respond to speed. Recovery run yesterday was better than some have been though. Did an easy 5 miles and my legs did feel better by the end. Do you notice that your warm up acts as a recovery as you're sticking to quality sessions with no recovery runs?

    Do you train with Serpies?
  • Yes, I am a Serpentine member.
  • Hi PPB, I've only just spotted this thread. Glad somone started a Sub 3:45. I was going to myself but didn't think one would really take off. My sub 3:30 target is probz a step tooooo far at the mo, so I'll be Lurking on here for a whlie I think. I kno the 3:45 pace quite well as the FLM 02 saw me finish in 3:39 and I stayed wid d 3:45 pacer until mile 19 last year until my foot said NO MORE and I did a 3:56.

    Keep this thread alive I beg of thee. A lurkin I shall be.

  • Hi Woony you're more than welcome so lurk on!

    Re energy drink, I tried lucozade sport once (ready-made bottle form) and found it really sickly. I then discovered Powerbar lemon flavour powder which is ok, but lately I find this turns on me after a while.

    I've never tried a gel, but on my last long run I took a High 5 (I think) energy bar with me and had it after about 1hr 45 mins, and I found it tasty and easy to eat. Only problem is where to carry it - I can't decie whether to wear a bottle belt for the race, and even if I do, not sure if the pocket is big enought to carry 2 energy bars. Oh dear...all these decisions!

    Just came back from lunchtime speedwork:

    8 min warmup, then fast bursts of 1, 2, 4, 2, 1 mins with 1 min jog in between each, then repeat sequence before 8min cool down. Made an interesting session and not too hard on the legs after my race on Sunday.

  • Good morning all - how were your runs yesterday?

    We did an interesting session at the track! 100 metres, jog 100 metres, then 200, jog 100, 300, jog 100, 400, jog 100, .... all the way up to 1200 metres. It was nice to do that fast stuff at the beginning (missed that recently with the longer track work). Was a bit of a killer but kept your mind busy keeping track of which distance you were on and how much more of it you had to go!

    Puggers - where do you do your speedwork? Track or treadmill?

    Lars - how was your session at Paddington? Do you train at Battersea Park on Thursday nights?

    PPB - How was your 10 miles? Knee okay?
  • Oh and welcome Woony. There's no need to lurk, don't be shy, tell us how your training's going.
  • Hmmmm.....

    Think I may be off to the sub4 thread again. Did my Yassos this morning and only got 2 of the 10 under 3:45. All were under 4:00.

    Now this might be running before breakfast or the effects of three days skiing in my legs but I'm not sure 3:45 is realistic.

    I'm also thinking that I'd rather do a safe sub4 than risk 3:45, blow up and go outside 4. I really, really want this to be my last mara and a sub4's the only goal I've got left from when I started running.

    Bye for now,

    p.s. obviously if I have one good day's training, I'll get all optimistic and be straight back!
  • Donna, we did a pyramide. 400, 800, 1200, 1600, 1200, 800, 400, supposed to be in 5k pace and 1 minute rest. I could hold my pace but had to extend the rest intervals. Averaged just under 6:40 pace.
    Will not be at Battersea, mainly because I only do 1 track session a week and I like our Tuesdays more, additionally we have the national XC on Saturday so I shouldn't be tired then.
  • Higs, I wouldn't worry unduly about one bad session - I reckon the skiing would explain a lot. Give it another go sometime soon when you're feeling quite strong and then see how you go. And remember you've still got about 8 weeks left so plenty of time to get to your target. Don't give up on 3.45 (not just yet anyway!).

    Donna, I do speedwork on a flat footpath by the river. It's not possible to measure distance, so I base it on time intervals rather than distance. I'm not in a club and don't have the will to go to a track.
  • Dull ache! That's how my knee felt at the end of last nights session. That is about normal for me. If I'd kept going eventually the ache would be a sharp pain that would just increase in intensity. Sort of annoying but I'm learning to struggle through. A good time for me though, 9.4 Miles in just over 1 Hour 9 minutes. Today is a rest day from running, though I'll still do a swim session and some home exercises later.

    Sorry about that Higs. I wouldn't read too much into Yasso's but you may as well set yourself a target that you think you can make and would be happy with. I started this thread as I realised I was kidding myself to think I'd make 3:30.

    Hi Woony and anyone else lurking. Don't be afraid to say Hello from time to time. We're all in this together <group hug>.

  • PPB - Sounds like a good run. I hope you can sort your knee out, sharp pain doesn't sound too much fun.

    Higs - I'd second what PPB says, my times are never as good in the morning and if you've been skiing too...! Maybe try them again next week and see what results you get. Can fully understand why you don't wan to risk blowing up though.

    Lars - good luck in the Nationals, hope the rain holds off for the next few days. 6:40 is a pretty speedy pace. Where do you get that time from? Is that a PB for 5K, using an equivalent time calcualtor or just what you know you can run it at?

    So what has everyone got planned for tonight? Is it a rest night for most of you? I'll be doing about 7 miles at a steady pace this evening after teaching a yoga class.

  • This is the target 5k pace for a 21 minutes 5k.

    Today easy 16 miles, very easy! Than rest until Saturday.
  • Donna, PPB, Dont worry I've never been to good at lurkin, just always have to say something.

    Higs, I know how you're feeling. I know that a Sub 3:30 is in me. But the rate my training is going its really gona hurt me. So Im looking at doing a Sub 3:45 that I can enjoy rather than Sub 3:30 thats gona kill me. However Im gona keep up the training that I had planned for the 3:30 so This should make the 3:45 even better.

    Anyone here plan to stick with the RW Pacers for All/part of the course?

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