A bit like sub-4 (but 15 minutes quicker)



  • Lars... Easy?? Don't kid yourself mate, solid 8's all the way!!!
  • Lars - never raced a 5k (10k is my shortest) so can only comment that 21 minutes sounds pretty fast. Mc Millan would make that a definite sub 3:30 in equivalent performance for a marathon.
    Makes me wonder if I need to be running my intervals a little faster (although not sure my legs would be too co-operative!)

    Hope the 16 miles goes well - how long will that take?!

    Woony - Current plan is to stay with the RW pacers all the way unless I sonehow have loads of energy left at about mile 18 - 20.

    Looking forward to the pacing events at Richmond and Sutton Park to see how I fare keeping that pace.
  • Woony, I hope to stick with the pacers all the way, but like Donna I may speed up at the end if I have any energy.

    To change the subject, what's everybody's view on warming up for the race? I usually run easily for the first 10mins of my training runs, then quicken to whatever pace I need to do. With this marathon I'm inclined to just start cold - I did it in my 10k on Sunday and worked fine. I always used to warm up a bit before races, but then after hanging around at the start I feel I lose all the benedit anyway.
  • Yep, I agree Puggers. A lot of the marathon is about managing your energy stores. No point in depleting them. You'll be running pretty easily for a long way, so no need to get the heart rate up and not much risk of pulling something at that speed. And I'm sure there's something in the theory of taking the first mile or two extra-slow to get the fat-burning mechanism fired up and save that lovely glycogen.

    Mind you, I'd definitely get my heart ticking over before a 10K.
  • I was going to warm up a bit, something very slow, easy and short, followed by a bit of stretching. I know I'll probably get cold again so maybe it's just the confidence of thinking I won't get any odd twinges or stifness in the first few miles (especially given I'll have rested for a couple of days before probably).

    Surely a slow jog can't use up much more glycogen than walking about a bit - which you're bound to do anyway?

    if you're sticking with the pacers my understanding is that they do the whole marathon at the same pace so granted it will feel fairly easy but it will be your marathon pace from the start line.

    What training planned for today?

    Trying to decide between a marathon pace and a half marathon pace session. Reading half is a week Sunday so it might be good to practise that pace and as this will be on the treadmill and my next step up for marathon pace would have to be to 14 miles think I might favour the half session. Maybe 8 or 9 miles?
  • I'm heading to the track today. I'm going try and do some Yasso 800's with a target pace for each set of 800 in 3:30-3:40 with a 3 minute (1 lap) jog recovery in between each set. I hope to do 10 sets. It's ages since I've done this but it's a good workout. This could be my last run for a few days as I'm away for the weekend so I'll try and make it count.

    I can't decide whether to follow the RW pacers or not in London. I know it should be even paced running but I generally prefer doing my own thing and see where it takes me. I had planned on running the first Half in London in 1 Hour 50 and then try and come back inside 1 Hour 55 to make the target time.

    I don't see an awful lot of point in warming up much before the start of a marathon. We're running at a steady pace for a long time so the start pace would probably be a normal warm up for many of our runs anyway. I'll just stretch a little before the start.
  • Hi all

    Just picked up on this thread today. It sounds like you're all going through the same pain and suffering as me.

    This will be my first marathon so not too sure what to expect. I'm aiming for 3:35 - 3:40. I have run several 1/2m and 10k with pb of 1:31:11 for and 40:43.

    Currently running about 70 miles per week and can feel the benefit of it. Longest run yet of 22.5m in 3hr 4min. (about 8min 11sec per mile). This hurts so I don't belive I could do much better than this on the day, but being a marathon virgin what do I know.

    I seem to go through phases of feeling really stong some days and others feeling like I'd strugle to run to the end of my road. This is regardless of what I have done on the previous few days. Does anyone else suffer from this?
  • Hi Fruit Cake and welcome. Today I'm struggling to keep my eyes open! I can always run, it just seems to be the pace that varies. The thing that seems to have gone is the enjoyment. Feel good after a good session but a lot my runs I just want to get over and done with.

    70 miles a week is impressive - how does that break down over the week into training sessions? You're much faster than me, great time for your long run.
  • Hi Donna W and thanks. It's not that the enjoyment isn't there (if I stoped enjoying it then I don't think I'd be doing it) it's just some days you feel like you've taken two steps backwards instead of one forward.

    Last week broke down as follows:

    Mon Rest
    Tue 9 miles interval training (1 hr)
    Wed 11.5 miles hills (1 hr 24)
    Thu 8.3 Miles flat (1 hr)
    Fri 12.5 Miles hills (1hr 37)
    Sat 8 miles (1hr)
    Sun 22.5 Miles 3 hr 04

    Reading previous posts I think I must be thick. What is a Yassos? Not being part of a club I don't hear terms like this.
  • I think maybe when you're running high mielage your body just goes through natural cycles of peaks and troughs. Sometimes I finish my long run on a Sunday and think no way will I reach my target time on the day and others are great. Can't spot a pattern.

    How do your alternate your hard and easy runs? Are you cutting back the mileage for every 4th week?

    Yasso 800s are 10 800s run in the time you want to run the marathon in minutes instead of hours. So for you, 3 minutes 35 to 3 minutes 40 for each 800. The rest you take inbetween is the controversial part. I think it's supposed to be as long as you take to run each 800 but that's along time and you may well freeze to death in this weather hanging about that long. Maybe jog 100 metres instead or take 90 seconds?

    The idea is that if you can do 10 then you stand a good chance of hitting that target time in the marathon. I'm not sure how good an indication it is. It seems a little easy to me realtive to other interval sessions.
  • Yasso's are a lot easier than running a marathon. I haven't gone to the track yet, due to work, but I'm set to escape in about an hour. I'll thrill you with the times later on!

    My body couldn't handle 70 miles a week. I have to stick with 30-40 and with a very occasional peak of 45.
  • But PPB if you take into account all the other stuff you do too...

  • Hi Fruit cake, and welcome to the gang. Your 1/2m time of 1.31 is very impressive indeed (compared to my 1.39 anyway). On that basis you should be able to kick our collective a***s in a marathon - but I understand that for a first marathon (like many of us here), you don't want to blow it by going too fast.

  • Well I did my Yasso's at a deserted track this afternoon. I completed the first seven 800m sets just inside 3 minutes 15 then finished with the last three in 3:08, 3:08 & 2:57. I had a 2 1/2 minute (1 lap) recovery jog after each 800m.

    I was blowing hard all the way but I was pleased with the performance. The last time I did Yasso's, I had toiled to keep them all inside 3 minutes 35.

  • Puggers, I defo wouldnt be too bothered about a warm up for the FLM. If you have a certain area you Know gives you jip then defo work on it a while. I only do a few gentle (GENTLE) stretchs B4 the FLM. As Donna said it gona be a nice steady pace all the way around ( the RW Pacers are top).However a Sub 3:45 is usually PEN 4 so there will be a bit of slower pace, walking maybe, bunching at the start, so you're not exactly going straight in to 8 min miles.

    Ref the RW Pacers, I hope to stay with the Sub 3:45 until about mile 22 at which IF Im fit enough I'll pick up the Pace a little. The Pacers do still like you to get UNDER THE CLOCK on time, so be prepared to run a little quicker than the 8min mile. I stayed with the Pacer to Mile 19 last year (then broke away from them backwards in the form of a WALK). Up to this point it was a steady 3:39/3:40 Pace.

    My overall aim is a PB, thus anything quicker than 3:39,46. 3:39,45 Would be GREAT, anything else is a BONUS.

    Keep up d ARD work people

  • Nice one PPB - sounds like a good session to go away for the weekend on!

    Woony, interesting what you say about the pacers. I was thinking about that - if there are a couple of 10 minute miles at the start then this will necessitate quicker miles later on, and if they try to beat the clock time too.........perhaps I'll defect to the sub 5hr thread!!

  • Always being one to try new things I tried the Yasso's last night. Kept a constant pace and did them all in around 3 mins (some slightly over some under). Like you PPB I had 2 1/2 recoveries. Felt OK afterwards. Confidence is growing now. doing 1/2m this afternoon then rest day tomorrow for personal reasons before the big push on Sunday. 23m aarggghhhhh....
  • Good going Fruit Cake. I am embarrassed to say that I have never been to a track in my life. I'm going to have to give it a go now to see how I fare with Yassos. Next week I think. I need to save my energy for my first 3hr run on Sunday.
  • I believe the pacers changing what they run to this year.

    It always used to be clock time, but it will be chip time this year.
  • The idea of Yasso's is that if you run 4 mins per 800, then your recovery is a 4 min jog, not any less. This then equates to approx 80 mins of running and it is this time on your feet which is suppose to improve your race performance. If your recoveries are too short, then the session will be over to quick and you will not benefit from the session.
  • Hi I'm pete, this is my 4th london marathon on the trot. the first was a rather sad 4hr 22min mainly due to an alarming lack of training. the next two have both been 3hr 57 mins, each time training was going well until the last 6 weeks or so when it got derailed a bit due to work commitments. This year however I'm determined to go for 3 hr 45min (despite falling a bit behind with a weeks skiing recently) My long run is on a saturday , tomorrow I'm aiming for 20 miles plus, how is your training going ?
  • Puggers, dont worry about d Pacers the're Great. Its not much faster, Im just preparing people. However if what I p said is true it should be even better.

  • KNACKERED!! That was me after making it around a 3hr run today, including climbing a modest mountain. I felt good until about 2.30, but the last 30 mins were awful - legs felt like lead and it hurt me to stand, let alone walk, let alone run!

    I am hoping that it was the steep climbs which finished me off, and that if I try the same time on the flat that it will feel easier.

    Bye for now - I'm off to limp the 10 metres into my lounge!
  • It does get easier, Puggers. But it still hurts lots!

    My long one yesterday was significantly easier than one I did on roughly the same route three weeks ago. Seven whole b.p.m. slower HRav too, despite taking it a smidge quicker (and 2M further), so the speedwork's definitely having an effect (well, 'definitely' if I can exclude the possibility that I was a bit 'off' last time). 22M in all, in 3:14, and had, oooh, a good 4.2 miles left in my legs at the end.

    And I can even walk kind-of OK today!
    (running - well, that's a different story...).

    How did everyone else's long ones go?
  • Hi swerve, sounds like you're on track for a good'un. Did 19.1 miles in 2.56 on saturday (sunday is shopping day with missus !!) and managed to walk round shops next day without any problem. Does shopping count as an easy day training ?, I must have walked miles. It certainly seemed to get rid of the aches and pains, sat at my desk this moring ready for another run.

    I think i need to get a bit faster for a 3.45, what speedwork do you do? and how often ? I tend to be a bit lazy at running fast so i think i need to get some sessions in in the next few weeks


  • Good going all. I did my ling run Sunday morning. 3 hrs of hell! Running into icy cold strong winds up and down every hill I could find. I don't know how far it was I need to look on Map24 to confirm. Need a day off today to recover. But looking on the bright side, like you Swerve I can just about walk today althouh my right knee and left nipple are a bit sore. More vaseline on the nipple next time!
  • Peter - Aside from my long run, I do a good hard speed sesh with my club on a Tuesday and a good hard speed sesh on my own on the treadmill on Thursdays, mostly focusing on 2 min & 1 min fast intervals (and lots of them, for the sake of endurance). My fourth session might involve some tready work or just a five-mile leg stretcher outside, but it's not a hard one. I should emphasise that I don't have much of a clue about how to train properly, but including the Thursday session (and having a good long spell without injury) has led to much quicker improvement than just the club session alone. And concentrating on speed means fewer miles - since mid-December, my weeks have been 18.0 miles, 21.8, 27.7, 30.0, 30.7, 9.7, 34.7, 32.4, 34.7 and 37.1. I think this has helped me stay uninjured (yes, I AM touching wood).

    So, dunno, it's what works for each individual, I suppose, but that seems to work for me. Of course, take it with a pinch of salt until I actually register a marathon time!

    Fruit Cake - are the knee and nipple injuries linked? ;-) Teeny shreds of microporous tape - works a treat! Boots do a sellotape-style dispenser.
  • Well done everybody.

    Thanks for the encouragement Swerve. You guys seem to be doing well with your long runs. My strength currently lies in 10k - 1/2m, and I know I need to persevere with the long ones. Must say I still feel a bit cr*ppy today, and anoyingly I have the mother of a blister (time to change socks I think). This may sound insignificant, but I'm worried it may hamper my training this week because it's damn painful. Any good tips anybody?

    And yes, the micropore tape solved my nipple problem completely. I don't use tiny shreds though - a 1-2 inch piece slapped right over each nipple does the trick beautifully. Taking it off is interesting though - reminds me of the days of getting chewing gum stuck in one's hair as a child!!
  • :-)
    That's why I only use a tiny bit. Makes my eyes water just thinking about it!

    Blisters? I suppose my tip is to have three pairs of shoes on the go. Each will cause a slightly different blister pattern, allowing old wounds to harden up. Oh, and I do my long runs in a very cushioned pair of Hilly socks (just cheapo generic white socks otherwise).
  • I got pb of 1.48 this weekend for the brighton half - this is my 1st race of this distance - training for FLM - strange thing is i run further than this on my long training runs yet this is the hardest run i've ever done by a long shot - any ideas why ?, Also with this time (which is a pb) is it realistic to think i can run a sub 4 hour marathon ?

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