Yes MM2 - I have to agree with Marty - at most you would get 30-60s from being in B rather than C. If you pace appropriately from the start you will linger back and see runners pass you from the previous 2 of even 3 seeding groups. Keep calm as you will see them before halfway when you overtake them.
In the build up to Comrades I think you loose too much by 'conventional' marathon racing, i.e. with the conventional taper, hard racing and prolonged recovery. Rather I would recommend 'regular' Comrades training, then a micro-taper (i.e. no running 2 days prior), The marathon, then resume regular training with a little lower volume the first week then return to fuller volume the next week. The marathon itself I concur with Marty - easy to steady for the first 18-21 miles - if you like you can go to tempo pace from then. Just keep it within limits so that you can recover quickly.
I'm not sure that the 8km TT tells you much. If I remember right you said you had a 1:32 half in which case I would expect you to be more in the range 32-33 min for 8km for standard conversions. It all depends on what training you do - if you do lots of tempo/interval then I would expect you to be more in line with what I suggest - if you don't do any then your result is good. It depends on how hard you went out. Frankly speaking I would avoid going too hard in these TT anyway as that is where injuries occur. I know that well from 2016.
Hey MM I don't think any training run or time trial is going to be an accurate bell-weather for how Comrades is going to play out for you on the day. Its always a very personal experience for each of us. Things can go wrong on the day and often things go really well.. Prepare as best you can, be honest with your training regime and you can afford yourself some faith that the hard work pays off.
Re Paris though, I agree 100% with Marty. I screwed this up after my last London Marathon, I felt great all day so wasn't concerned it was a stretch because 'I wasn't racing' (Comrades was in late May then) But that run followed me around for weeks after. In real terms, my weekly mileage dropped afterwards. I was gutted that I suffered so much running 3 Forts p(this I use not only to train but to guage my conditioning on the hills) and any positivity I felt pre-London increasingly turned to frustration. I spent weeks trying to find a balance between recovery and having to rebuilding mileage before the impending taper.
If I was you I'd leave myself in shape enough to continue your training in the days following Paris.
I have two CAMRA recommendations; The Lord Moon of the Mall, and, The Harp, and from someone who has frequented the area and knows it like the back of their hand; The Chandos
I know all of those establishments! Of the three, my pick would be the Harp.
JAR - like a few others on the forum I'm looking for the Bill Rowan. Hopefully I'll be better prepared this year. I'm making sure I don't skip the hill and interval sessions plus the strength work. The latter I particularly dislike but I know it's needed. Bruce swears by it and if you listened to Camille Heron on Marathon Talk recently, she does too. What do you have in mind? You were in BR territory in 2016 is that on the cards this year?
Like MM, I like the idea of getting into B, and making up 3 minutes does not seem a big ask, but I'll be cautious based on the wise words of Marty, Bike It and JAR. My motivation is not so much B but the multiples measure from the marathon (2.xx times something!) in getting an idea of target time and pacing. The training is quite different between a marathon and Comrades and I'd need to do much more interval/tempo stuff to be in the best shape for a faster marathon. I don't think I can afford the taper time and days of recovery by going out hard. I might gain a minute to cross the start line but lose 5+ by missing a key training week. I plan to stick to the schedule which will give me the best chance, I hope!
My tuppence worth on the Bill Rowan debate. of my 5 Comrades, first 2 were Bronze, next 3 Bill Rowan. Would agree with Bike it that the 8k time trial predicted nothing. All of my BRs were from Pen B, can’t see C making a huge difference. For me the difference was getting very comfortable at marathon distance, 3:15ish at relatively comfortable heart rate, and staying lucky with injuries. This year injuries have sucked so I’m back to bronze/ vic planning ?
Finally booked flights though so 2018 now feels real
Thanks for the pub tip Mac3, the Harp sounds good. Yep, I'll set out at BR pace (aim for 10km/hr incl. stops) but I'm really not in fighting shape so unless I have a massive turnaround in conditioning before June I know that there's a painful reckoning waiting for me and I'll be grinding it out for Bronze (hopefully). Good luck this year, you sound like you're covering all the bases and not leaving anything to chance.
Matt - how many years have you been out of Comrades? Did you miss it in the break or did you have other challenges to resolve?
Thanks for the advice Marty, BikeIt, justanothr, Mac3 & Matt . I think I probably knew the answer already, but with a group of us going over to Paris there's been a lot of peer pressure for racing it. Only 1 other is doing Comrades, for the others it's their big race of the year. I'll sit back, let them race it out and enjoy the day and atmosphere. Re the TT, I've not done any intervals at all since last Feb/March so was pleased to go sub-7. I agree that 8K seems logically to be a pretty poor predictor for 90K, it was wishful thinking that it meant I'm going to cruise to a Bill Rowan! justanothr - your London experience is a cautionary tale, it's so easy to get carried away when training's going well. That feeling of invincibility creeps in, then bang! it blows up in your face. Hope this years preparation is on course. JAR, Mac3 - hopefully we can all scrape home in 8:50...something!
Moonlight Challenge completed. Six laps, 37-38 miles (Garmin 38, officially 37.5). First two 6.25 mile laps in sunshine, then dusk falling, and I had to switch on the head torch for the last section of lap 3. Beautiful tiniest crescent moon sliver - no use for light, but lovely. And amazing views of the Milky Way in the sections furthest from the A299. I rather enjoyed the night running - found it strangely relaxing. Temperature definitely dropped once the sun went down. Okay while running but cooling rapidly when I stopped. Used the uphill lopes to practice "purposeful walking".
Now only three weeks to the Viking 100. Gulp. Same course, but 16 laps.
Wow well done Debra. Your running is clearly going well. I don't even want to think what running 100 miles is like
Local half marathon for me today. As just a training run, I ran it at long run pace.. Had told my OH I wanted to finish in about 2h20 and came in at 2h19 without ever looking at my watch so happy with that. Running a solo marathon next week before a delicious pub lunch with friends.
Excellent running Debra! Been thinking about an overnight run myself sometime later this year, will be interested in how you get on. Hope everyone had a good weekend of training racing/banked!
Any opinions on the following welcome:
I'm running Paris marathon on April 8th, so 2 months out from race day. I feel with a hard but not 'eyeballs out' effort I could go sub 3:20 and up my seeding from C to B. Is it wise/worth it bearing in mind it will impact a bit on my training runs for a couple of weeks afterwards?
Secondly, on coach Parry's plan I did a 8km Time Trial last night and bagged 34:43 (BR Target 35:00 - 35:35), does this mean I'm looking good for a BR medal or absolutely nothing??
Can't tell you how helpful it is having people who've been there and got the T-shirt to get advice from!
TBH I don't think starting in B vs C makes much of a difference as once the barriers go down everyone crushs up anyway. My main aim in Comrades at the start is not to get sucked into going too fast as some people take off like is't a 5k or something! That being said it wouldn't bother me doing a marathon in April, doing an Ultra myself on April 22nd.
Hope it doesn't come back to bite me at Comrades now but I entered an extra marathon myself on May 26th as when I watched the video from last year it hooked me
lowrez, some extra events for me next time you update the list: Book Day Challenge (L) 3rd March RAF100 Challenge (L), 1st April Three Forts Marathon (M, trail) 6th May Cakeathon Spring Challenge (L) 28 May
I
have some others I intend to do with SVN but I won't add them to the
list until I've entered - which probably won't be until after the 100
(once I know how far that's broken me).
Re. start pens, I think there's a risk of getting caught up with faster runners and going out too fast if you "just" make it into the faster pen.
Thanks for the feedback jk. Enjoy your marathons. I watched coach Parry's webinar today, he mentioned not trying to improve seeding and jeopardising training. Not sure if admin allows links, but I'll try and put the webinar link in: https://www.facebook.com/comradescoach/videos/1170901559712491/
evening all......... Looks like i will have to book on the saturday tour bus Lowrez as I have decided to spend the saturday night at pietermersburg as I struggle from travel sickness and cant take a tablet on the morning of the race as they make me tired...... was lucky to get a place to stay leaving it this late....means i will miss parkrun but I did do durban last year. teh saturday after I'm doing a parkrun near Capetown as it starts with a Z and I need a Z for my parkrun alphabet
seren - so will you use the Saturday tour bus to get to PM and not come back on it? If you ask Brian I am sure he will reserve the front seats for you and Mr seren.
Snail - the 2016 detail letter said only runners on the buses up to PM, but for some reason I recall that being contradicted elsewhere? Or was it that some of us were driving up there privately and so lifts were potentially available and return journeys? Your OH will definitely need an international wrist band to get into the international area, you can purchase as many of these as you like (if you are a bigamist) at the expo, you must get them at the expo though, you get 2 anyway as part of your entry fee... remember to wear yours on the day, ie run with it all the way from PM, don't put it in your drop bag, as it will be in the international area and you can't get into the international area without an international wristband!
Hotels Belaire Suites: Terry48, Bike It,
Debra Bourne, Dannirr, Carmen23, Southern Snail, Becca7, Mc Hilly
City Lodge: marty74, Slow Duck
Hilton: lowrez
Umhlanga: jkissane
Comrades 2018 Qualification
24SepBerlin (M) marty74-Q3:14-PenB, jkissane-Q3:09-PenB,
Dannirr-Q4:54-PenH
24SepLoch Ness (M) seren nos-Q4:51-PenH 08OctYorkshire (M) Southern Snail-Q4:43-PenG>CC
08OctChicago (M) Matt..-Q3:54-PenD
15OctLeicester (M) Becca7-Q3:49-PenD, Max Mladenovic
2-Q3:23pb-PenC 21OctBetteshanger
Marathon(M) Debra Bourne-Q3:55-PenD
17DecPortsmouth (M) Peter R-Q4:01-PenF
25FebTokyo(M)Slow Duck
25FebSeville (M) Becca7
01MarGrim Four by
Four (M) 1owrez
03MarBook Day
Challenge (L) Debra Bourne
04MarVaal (M) Bike It
10MarViking 100
Endurance Run (L) Debra Bourne
10MarThames Meander (M) justanothrrnr
11MarBarcelona (M) Slow Duck
17MarEco Trail de
Paris (U) Becca7
18MarTralee (M) jkissane
18MarUtrecht (M) Mac3
24MarBetteshanger Challenge (L) marty74
31MarBorn to Run (U) Becca7
01AprRAF100 Challenge (L)
Debra Bourne
08AprRotterdam (M) Mac3
15AprBrighton (M) Slow Duck
16AprBoston USA (M) Matt..
22AprLondon (M) Becca7,
Terry48, Mr Southern Snail, 1owrez, justanothrrnr
22AprConnemara (U) jkissane
28AprSpring Ranscombe (L) marty74
02May Qualification andRace4Charity (PenCC)
Closes
10JunComrades
Course Tour Friday 7:30 - Mc Hilly
Friday 8:45 - Southern Snail
Saturday 7:30 - 1owrez, seren nos
Parkrun North Beach: Terry48, Bike It, Debra Bourne, Dannirr, Carmen23, Southern
Snail, Becca7, Mc Hilly, Mac3
Umhlanga: jkissane
Thousand Hills: Slow Duck Zandvlei: seren nos
Lie In Bed: Bike It
SS.. I have planned on using the clothes I travel up in on the saturday to then put on my bag drop at the start so that I will have them to put on post race.. I still Have my durban hotel booked so all my stuff will stay there....just take racekit and minimal stuff up on the saturday.
For the list we are staying at the Palace all suite this year...... Just booked a few more bits and bobs tonight for the trip.. and finished week 9 of my 24 week training schedule with all runs done.....Just need to tackle my excess weight :0
Just read the blog Lowrez..... That whole trip sounds so exhausting...... Why dont you come to Newport marathon in April.Little travelling and a dead flat course...
I had a nice run at Tokyo and just managed to scrape under 4 hours on my chip time (3:58:something) - a bit worried that it felt harder than it should.
I saw lots of friends who were both running and supporting, the weather was perfect for running - cool and overcast - and the new course finish at Tokyo Centrsl Station was much nicer, especially for the post race arrangements.
An even closer sub 4 scrape for me in Seville with 3:59 but I was happy with that after only 5 weeks of uninterrupted training and not having been able to run 9:30 pace at the start of the month.
Seren, Google maps tells me that attempting to get to Newport on the A5 will take longer than my Tasmania trip
Thanks for the kind comments on my Blog everyone - it is only this time around that I found a gyzmo called a "Note" on Facebook which allows that kind of formatting with the pictures in-line with the text where you want them to go. Maybe its been kicking around for years and I didn't notice. On other occasions I have put the text in as an ordinary post and then the pictures afterwards but that's always been a frustrating thing for me as you don't get the context of how I meant it to be.
JAR - I am the IT Manager here and if I blocked access to FB I would probably have to run for my life.
I think there is a lot of drama to come from me yet on this year's qualification window. My back has been and currently is giving me some gip, so much so that I did not do that 17 miler, or any miles since. I have the Grim 4x4 on Thursday and I have come down with a horrible head cold, currently on painkillers to get through the day as my sinuses are killing me, my teeth feel like they are stabbing my upper jaw bone every step I take. The forecast at the run is currently 100% chance of snow tomorrow and on the day with a max temperature of -2C. "Get on with it you wimp" I hear you all cry If it is not cancelled I am planning to turn up and run. Its just like Manchester last year with snow. I will just have to hope they don't drugs test me. At least the painkillers are addressing both my back and sinuses
Becca: well done you! I know that's a lot slower than you usually run but nice to have at least D' pen in the bag at this point, given how much time you've lost.
Slow Duck: well done at Tokyo!
lowrez: sympathies for the back and the head cold. Hope they are both sorted quickly. Note that SVN have a certified road marathon on 14 April - and it's on a lapped course (Betteshanger) so you know exactly where you're up to and how much further to go. I know it's only a week before London, but might be worth considering?
Comments
In the build up to Comrades I think you loose too much by 'conventional' marathon racing, i.e. with the conventional taper, hard racing and prolonged recovery. Rather I would recommend 'regular' Comrades training, then a micro-taper (i.e. no running 2 days prior), The marathon, then resume regular training with a little lower volume the first week then return to fuller volume the next week. The marathon itself I concur with Marty - easy to steady for the first 18-21 miles - if you like you can go to tempo pace from then. Just keep it within limits so that you can recover quickly.
I'm not sure that the 8km TT tells you much. If I remember right you said you had a 1:32 half in which case I would expect you to be more in the range 32-33 min for 8km for standard conversions. It all depends on what training you do - if you do lots of tempo/interval then I would expect you to be more in line with what I suggest - if you don't do any then your result is good. It depends on how hard you went out. Frankly speaking I would avoid going too hard in these TT anyway as that is where injuries occur. I know that well from 2016.
Re Paris though, I agree 100% with Marty. I screwed this up after my last London Marathon, I felt great all day so wasn't concerned it was a stretch because 'I wasn't racing' (Comrades was in late May then) But that run followed me around for weeks after. In real terms, my weekly mileage dropped afterwards. I was gutted that I suffered so much running 3 Forts p(this I use not only to train but to guage my conditioning on the hills) and any positivity I felt pre-London increasingly turned to frustration. I spent weeks trying to find a balance between recovery and having to rebuilding mileage before the impending taper.
If I was you I'd leave myself in shape enough to continue your training in the days following Paris.
JAR - like a few others on the forum I'm looking for the Bill Rowan. Hopefully I'll be better prepared this year. I'm making sure I don't skip the hill and interval sessions plus the strength work. The latter I particularly dislike but I know it's needed. Bruce swears by it and if you listened to Camille Heron on Marathon Talk recently, she does too. What do you have in mind? You were in BR territory in 2016 is that on the cards this year?
Like MM, I like the idea of getting into B, and making up 3 minutes does not seem a big ask, but I'll be cautious based on the wise words of Marty, Bike It and JAR. My motivation is not so much B but the multiples measure from the marathon (2.xx times something!) in getting an idea of target time and pacing. The training is quite different between a marathon and Comrades and I'd need to do much more interval/tempo stuff to be in the best shape for a faster marathon. I don't think I can afford the taper time and days of recovery by going out hard. I might gain a minute to cross the start line but lose 5+ by missing a key training week. I plan to stick to the schedule which will give me the best chance, I hope!
of my 5 Comrades, first 2 were Bronze, next 3 Bill Rowan. Would agree with Bike it that the 8k time trial predicted nothing. All of my BRs were from Pen B, can’t see C making a huge difference.
For me the difference was getting very comfortable at marathon distance, 3:15ish at relatively comfortable heart rate, and staying lucky with injuries.
This year injuries have sucked so I’m back to bronze/ vic planning ?
Finally booked flights though so 2018 now feels real
Matt - how many years have you been out of Comrades? Did you miss it in the break or did you have other challenges to resolve?
justanothr - your London experience is a cautionary tale, it's so easy to get carried away when training's going well. That feeling of invincibility creeps in, then bang! it blows up in your face. Hope this years preparation is on course.
JAR, Mac3 - hopefully we can all scrape home in 8:50...something!
Moonlight Challenge completed. Six laps, 37-38 miles (Garmin 38, officially 37.5). First two 6.25 mile laps in sunshine, then dusk falling, and I had to switch on the head torch for the last section of lap 3. Beautiful tiniest crescent moon sliver - no use for light, but lovely. And amazing views of the Milky Way in the sections furthest from the A299. I rather enjoyed the night running - found it strangely relaxing. Temperature definitely dropped once the sun went down. Okay while running but cooling rapidly when I stopped. Used the uphill lopes to practice "purposeful walking".
Now only three weeks to the Viking 100. Gulp. Same course, but 16 laps.
Local half marathon for me today. As just a training run, I ran it at long run pace.. Had told my OH I wanted to finish in about 2h20 and came in at 2h19 without ever looking at my watch so happy with that.
Running a solo marathon next week before a delicious pub lunch with friends.
Hope it doesn't come back to bite me at Comrades now but I entered an extra marathon myself on May 26th as when I watched the video from last year it hooked me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOOuzbVRd_4
Route profile is right up for Comrades prep as well, needless to say I'll be taking it very easy.
Book Day Challenge (L) 3rd March
RAF100 Challenge (L), 1st April
Three Forts Marathon (M, trail) 6th May
Cakeathon Spring Challenge (L) 28 May
I have some others I intend to do with SVN but I won't add them to the list until I've entered - which probably won't be until after the 100 (once I know how far that's broken me).
Re. start pens, I think there's a risk of getting caught up with faster runners and going out too fast if you "just" make it into the faster pen.
https://www.facebook.com/comradescoach/videos/1170901559712491/
Looks like i will have to book on the saturday tour bus Lowrez as I have decided to spend the saturday night at pietermersburg as I struggle from travel sickness and cant take a tablet on the morning of the race as they make me tired......
was lucky to get a place to stay leaving it this late....means i will miss parkrun but I did do durban last year. teh saturday after I'm doing a parkrun near Capetown as it starts with a Z and I need a Z for my parkrun alphabet
Can our OH's come to Pietermaritzburg and get back to Durban after we've left
seren - so will you use the Saturday tour bus to get to PM and not come back on it? If you ask Brian I am sure he will reserve the front seats for you and Mr seren.
Snail - the 2016 detail letter said only runners on the buses up to PM, but for some reason I recall that being contradicted elsewhere? Or was it that some of us were driving up there privately and so lifts were potentially available and return journeys? Your OH will definitely need an international wrist band to get into the international area, you can purchase as many of these as you like (if you are a bigamist) at the expo, you must get them at the expo though, you get 2 anyway as part of your entry fee... remember to wear yours on the day, ie run with it all the way from PM, don't put it in your drop bag, as it will be in the international area and you can't get into the international area without an international wristband!
Hotels
Belaire Suites: Terry48, Bike It, Debra Bourne, Dannirr, Carmen23, Southern Snail, Becca7, Mc Hilly
City Lodge: marty74, Slow Duck
Hilton: lowrez
Umhlanga: jkissane
Comrades 2018 Qualification
24Sep Berlin (M) marty74-Q3:14-PenB, jkissane-Q3:09-PenB, Dannirr-Q4:54-PenH
24Sep Loch Ness (M) seren nos-Q4:51-PenH
08Oct Yorkshire (M) Southern Snail-Q4:43-PenG>CC
08Oct Chicago (M) Matt..-Q3:54-PenD
15Oct Leicester (M) Becca7-Q3:49-PenD, Max Mladenovic 2-Q3:23pb-PenC
21Oct Betteshanger Marathon (M) Debra Bourne-Q3:55-PenD
17Dec Portsmouth (M) Peter R-Q4:01-PenF
25Feb Tokyo (M) Slow Duck
25Feb Seville (M) Becca7
01Mar Grim Four by Four (M) 1owrez
03Mar Book Day Challenge (L) Debra Bourne
04Mar Vaal (M) Bike It
10Mar Viking 100 Endurance Run (L) Debra Bourne
10Mar Thames Meander (M) justanothrrnr
11Mar Barcelona (M) Slow Duck
17Mar Eco Trail de Paris (U) Becca7
18Mar Tralee (M) jkissane
18Mar Utrecht (M) Mac3
24Mar Betteshanger Challenge (L) marty74
31Mar Born to Run (U) Becca7
01Apr RAF100 Challenge (L) Debra Bourne
08Apr Rotterdam (M) Mac3
15Apr Brighton (M) Slow Duck
16Apr Boston USA (M) Matt..
22Apr London (M) Becca7, Terry48, Mr Southern Snail, 1owrez, justanothrrnr
22Apr Connemara (U) jkissane
28Apr Spring Ranscombe (L) marty74
02May Qualification and Race4Charity (PenCC) Closes
10Jun Comrades
Course Tour
Friday 7:30 - Mc Hilly
Friday 8:45 - Southern Snail
Saturday 7:30 - 1owrez, seren nos
Parkrun
North Beach: Terry48, Bike It, Debra Bourne, Dannirr, Carmen23, Southern Snail, Becca7, Mc Hilly, Mac3
Umhlanga: jkissane
Thousand Hills: Slow Duck
Zandvlei: seren nos
Lie In Bed: Bike It
Did my own solo marathon today. Hard work on your own. OH joined me for the last lap which helped. 4h55 nice lunch and wine after.
Lowrez- half way through your blog. Don't know what the day job is but perhaps you should take up writing ?
For the list we are staying at the Palace all suite this year......
Just booked a few more bits and bobs tonight for the trip..
and finished week 9 of my 24 week training schedule with all runs done.....Just need to tackle my excess weight :0
I saw lots of friends who were both running and supporting, the weather was perfect for running - cool and overcast - and the new course finish at Tokyo Centrsl Station was much nicer, especially for the post race arrangements.
Lowrez, I can't access your blog at work sadly but I'll give it a read at home.
Running in this cold has been no fun at all.
Just trying to work out which week I'm running least and OH too so we can sneak in a week away in the sun
Well done SD.
Great reading that blog lowrez.
Great running Debra and SD and Becca!
Seren, Google maps tells me that attempting to get to Newport on the A5 will take longer than my Tasmania trip
Thanks for the kind comments on my Blog everyone - it is only this time around that I found a gyzmo called a "Note" on Facebook which allows that kind of formatting with the pictures in-line with the text where you want them to go. Maybe its been kicking around for years and I didn't notice. On other occasions I have put the text in as an ordinary post and then the pictures afterwards but that's always been a frustrating thing for me as you don't get the context of how I meant it to be.
JAR - I am the IT Manager here and if I blocked access to FB I would probably have to run for my life.
I think there is a lot of drama to come from me yet on this year's qualification window. My back has been and currently is giving me some gip, so much so that I did not do that 17 miler, or any miles since. I have the Grim 4x4 on Thursday and I have come down with a horrible head cold, currently on painkillers to get through the day as my sinuses are killing me, my teeth feel like they are stabbing my upper jaw bone every step I take. The forecast at the run is currently 100% chance of snow tomorrow and on the day with a max temperature of -2C. "Get on with it you wimp" I hear you all cry If it is not cancelled I am planning to turn up and run. Its just like Manchester last year with snow. I will just have to hope they don't drugs test me. At least the painkillers are addressing both my back and sinuses
Slow Duck: well done at Tokyo!
lowrez: sympathies for the back and the head cold. Hope they are both sorted quickly. Note that SVN have a certified road marathon on 14 April - and it's on a lapped course (Betteshanger) so you know exactly where you're up to and how much further to go. I know it's only a week before London, but might be worth considering?