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Has anyone run in Adidas Hagio trainers over the marathon distance .... used them for the HM at the weekend and they were spot on - fast, light, grippy in the wet..... UK9.5s are only 195g so really light feeling .... but I think the 40g weight saving on my regular race shoe contributed to over a minute in quicker time..... they may be a bit light for the full .... what do you think?? Could be the decision that makes the difference between 2:59 and 3:01
Padams (a while back) "VDot (whatever that is)" -- a dot over something is shorthand for "the first derivative with respect to time", two dots is the second derivative, etc. So Vdot would be the change in volume with time -- i.e. if you imagine sucking oxygen out of a big bag, it would be how quickly the bag is deflating in terms of ml/sec or similar units. So here it's the rate at which one uses oxygen, in volume terms.
Jimbob -- I found last VLM that my legs would feel remarkably better after just one full day off (but two if necessary) in terms of getting that Shake n' Vac freshness back. Like bufo it is my calves that tend to feel the strain, especially after fast running.
SL -- 90 mpw already, coo.
5M recovery bimble for me this morning, and the commute home will be minimal as it's early supper day. Might do a bit more tomorrow though.
Jimbob - personally my legs never feel fresh and recovered until marathon day. Always seem to be running on tired legs.
Hopefully back in business after a couple of days off for the knee.
8 x 800's in the middle of a 10 miler today felt comfortable and no pain in the knee (touch wood). Took first one easy in 2.55 to see how it felt then knocked the rest out in 2.43-2.47 with 45's recoveries. Seem to be quite a lot fitter than I was this time last year.
I've run Eastleigh once TR, but it was awful weather the same day (windy and very wet). I'm actually scheduled for a race on the 23rd and am stuck between Eastleigh or a local HM (which is probably more appropriate for Mara training).
Toro - a 6:40 MP gives the same easy range (in SmartCoach) as your coach, so it would seem he intends to progress you towards goal pace rather than going straight for it, which seems about right to me as it should bridge the gap between your HMP and MP. I shall watch with interest
Good to see you back SL. That 5kg was after I'd already lost some too! VLM the target I presume?
Nice 800s A.W.
Jimbob - as Jools has said, cumulative fatigue is the name of the game. Don't be afraid to cut back though either.
On that note, rough night with Jr #2, combined with 3 tougher days of training (medium with 5km pace + fast / double with some brisk / long with effort) meant I was wrecked this morning, so cancelled the morning part of the double and will just run home from work very easily for whatever duration feels right later.
TT - Which half marathon is that?, yep VLM is the target although still not entered as after accepting my entry, when i go to pay I'm being asked to select my event, I've emailed them and they have an out of office message, it's o.k. though they return from annual leave on Tuesday the 24th of September
TT - sensible approach.
Jimbob - as the others have said, it would be nice to have fresh legs all the time but proper marathon training doesn't really allow for that although I find that later on your legs do get used to it pretty well.
SL - good to hear the mojo is coming back, good time of year for it. Solo BAC sessions will get you in good shape.
TR - cracking session, especially so early in the morning. Good to see you trying something different and you sound confident at the moment. As a note of caution isn't it a bit early to be doing those sessions though? I'm waiting a few weeks to do them in the last few weeks before the race. Found last year that they're pretty intense and you wouldn't want to be doing them for too many weeks in a row.
Tmoth - it won't have the same effect if you break the run up. Doing a double will still be good for your fitness but not as specific as one MLR.
AW - good news on the knee.
Dids/Toro - as a counter to the all carb diet have you tried limiting carbs where you basically eat your normal food but more of the protein and fat and leave out the carbs? Eat when hungry, eat 'til full. Noakes is a big fan these days, having developed diabetes whilst training for ultras and noticing that loads of people who run ultras are still pretty chubby despite doing loads of running. I've found you feel a lot better at the end of long runs etc and there's no need to "fuel up" the night before long runs. Weight loss was quick and easy. Haven't been doing much quicker running but apart from maybe Saturday's XC I've had no fuelling issues. This post is an interesting one http://www.runnersworld.co.za/nutrition/novel-dietary-ideas/.
Wardi - impressive 5m race in a 13.
Trainers. New Balance for me, M3090s are very light and I find them very comfortable and worked well at London last year, feet were unscathed by the 26.2M.
Top training from lots of others....
Shaping up to be another decent mileage week for me, did 12M with some faster stuff in (not quick) on Tuesday and a decent length run planned for this evening. Have had some painful tightness just above my right ankle since the XC but it's getting better and will hopefully be fine by Saturday.
Cheers for all the feedback. HA HA CW, cracking me up about doing the shake n vac to put the freshness back!
Sounds like lots of good training this week.
Jimbob - I think when training for shorter distances (e.g. 5/10k) it's important to be able to push the main sessions (intervals/tempo runs etc.) hard so don't want tired legs on those days. For marathon training you want to improve running on tired legs (without overtraining/getting injured). The more you run and get used to high mileage the quicker you will recover as well, first time I did 75mpw remember my legs feeling pretty knackered but now feel fine doing 90+ and often can feel good after 1 easy day.
I do try and use a foam roller and do some calf/hip flexor strengthening exercises most evenings but that's more for injury prevention (have had ITB and achilles problems in the past).
Calf felt fine this morning so just done a very enjoyable 15 miles, was feeling particularly comfortable going at a decent pace.
Took advantage of not being in court to do 10M in the daylight today - and on a flat route, too, so a slightly faster than of late 7.55m/m average. Probably the strongest I've felt on a run since the lurgy, so maybe some evidence of a return of fitness.
SL: love the VLM out of office!
Yes I've been gradually increasing mileage so maybe the scotch eggs are feeling it a bit. I don't feel I'm over training. I am rollering with OROD aka Tripper Point's The Grid. That thing kills while I'm doing the exercises but after it feels good. The kind of mileage you talk of, I'm nowhere near that - in past marathon training I've peaked in the late 40s, this time round I'm planning to peak around 60. Already up to the late 40s so planning to cool it off next week before a another few weeks of building.
Thought the name sounded familiar just heard on Marathon Talk that Stuart Leaney (is this the very same who posted on here this am?) topped the listeners podium for 2013 with VLM time of 2:28:48!! Wow mucho congratulations! (probably old news but seriously impressive!)
Thanks for advice Lucky Jim, will take heed...will have to up the 'to work' commute to ensure it is an MLR then just a recovery 3 home.
Intrigued by CharlieW 'early supper day' is this to do with the work, run, life, family balance issue? How do any of you with young youngsters and fatigued other halves juggle it?? I struggle....
Luke - decent 5k time there considering you were feeling under the weather
Lev - I haven't tried monitoring HR while normal swimming, TBH I've had issues with the monitor I got for use in the water (it's a Polar rx100 I think), it worked well a few times, but other times it was clearly well out. What do you use? I would have thought that normally the action of your arm going in and out of the water would cause reception problems between the watch and transmitter? I'm not entirely sure yet where my fitness is following my very on-off 6ish weeks, hoping that Parkrun on Sunday will give me a good indication before the Stubbington 10k a week later. Very decent MP run for the time of year
AW - Good going on the 800s. Your knee issue sounds very similar to my recent quad (Sartorius) niggle, it's worth roller massaging all the way up to the muscle origin points in the pelvis, as I found tight spots at the opposite end to the bit which hurt!
CW - Decent MLR with a pyramid of efforts, all good work for getting back on par!
TT - Great 20M 'surge' run. I would say that the Gel Lyte 2's are a good all-rounder, I'd put the weight in the same bracket as the Adios 2's, the sole is decently cushioned but not overly thick (17mm forefoot/24mm heel) and not particularly stiff. They feel very comfy and heel cup isn't very stiff/reinforced either. Overall very happy with them so far, aiming to use them for easy and on road (not structured) long runs.
PP - Hope the orthotics work out for you, I'll probably be going back to using my foam inserts for easy/steady runs as my spring mileage builds up (to help prevent
Wardi - Thanks for the tips, will probably just do some warm up laps on the racecourse and then a few miles after, might go up towards the city centre and back.
TR - The general rule for all the BAC marathon session was 'target MP or a bit faster ' for the reps, for the likes of Marigold it's about increasing fitness to get down to consistent target MP over the set of sessions. I fall into 'bit faster' category, so was somewhere between MP and HMP mostly. Sounds like you had a good session!
Due to travelling up to Yorkshire today I squeezed in a progressive 10M early doors. It was a bit pants, legs very slow to get going (8:16 first mile!) and just about managed sub 6:30/M for the last mile, but good to get it done...
Bloody hell I'm famous, not quite on Marigolds scale though. ;-)
SL - nice to see you, I wondered where you were a few times.
AW - top pace on those 800s, esp the rest time too !
TT - Blimey, if you and Padams both pull out of Eastleigh on me, it wont be much of a thread smackdown.
LJ - the BAC schedule I have is a couple of years old, I just changed the dates, I'm at the right place in the schedule, y'day only had 44mins of effort, it gets tougher ! I might have watch the matches a bit though as I have hard turbo sessions on the days before and after the BAC stuff. If it gets icy then I'll be forced to slow down anyway.
Tmoth - you haveto juggle it all, otherwise the first thing to go is the running (and swim/bike).
AL_P - Ode reckoned on MP and HMP for the reps y'day, so I was in the right area. I think that Tempo is the fastest it gets to (on the shorter stuff).
60min turbo inc reps early doors and 5M easy at lunch in the scoobies. If I can do 10 tomorrow morning then I bag a 50M week !
TR - I never said I was doing Eastleigh, that was somebody else on here. I just seconded it as a fast race when Padams was looking for one. I'll give it a few weeks before I decide on either that or the HM (need to find out what that course is like). If I start coming into good shape it would be nice to put down a good 10k marker. I'm sure there were a few on here besides yourself and Padams who were planning on it. A thread smackdown is the only reason I'm considering it at all tbh
SL - I was thinking of the Water of Life HM - it's put on by the same crowd who organise the Maidenhead HM. Nice to see the admin staff on top of things and not letting the little matter of a race between now and September interrupting their time off
Cheers for the info Al_P. I'll look into them.
TT - ok, crossed wires then. There will be plenty of fast folks for me to chase anyway.
SL -- get your skates on and ring up VLM (they play *the* music if you have to go on hold). Their champs entry page says "All applicants must complete the online registration form and pay for their entry no later than 5pm on the 17th January 2014. This deadline will not be extended." Best not to have to argue it was their fault after the deadline... hey, while you're on you could suggest they send the "final instructions for championship athletes" leaflet out in advance; I wonder how many people each year, doing it for the first time, get to London without their club vest? It's silly to only lay down the rules at the Expo. Should be on the web page in fact.
Tmoth -- it's just early supper day because my eldest has a Kung Fu class to get to afterwards. It does kind of constrain the return run on Thursdays though. For what it's worth, another 3.2M at an easy pace to make 52 for the week so far, with tomorrow still to count... won't be a big miles week though (by my new standards).
Anyone see the story about the vegan oldies who did 366 back to back marathons? You have now!
Jimbob - Glad you feel knackered too! After half of week one I have got through sessions but it's a completely different level and mentality (quality training). Thanks Jools.
Lucky Jim - No, not looked at low carbs, not too fussed about that the weight will come off by not eating cr@p or bad fats (chocolate, crisps etc). Alcohol is my crutch.
TT - Thanks we'll see. I think the main change is before the Easy runs were a greater proportion of my time rather than the steady stuff. But it makes sense to do most training at or near M pace I guess. I do remember being shocked how fast M pace was in Washington having only done 1 session a week of 6-10 miles.
SL - lots of my clubmates have had problems signing up to. There is a guy(?) called Sam who can "sort it" I believe.
Nice week TR inc TT.
Well done AL_P, AW and CW for fitting in the sessions. Tmoth - I have a 2 year old - commuting, flexi-time (over long lunches), shower at work and understanding wife all help.
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Toro - I used to be the same (with M pace being a shock) until Amsterdam training. I guess it's all about that balance between quantity and quality.
TR - I just went and looked into the HM, a lot of it is multi-terrain, so Eastleigh is now the best option for a race that weekend so I guess I'll see you there!
T Moth.. just a thought, you could make one of the commutes into a tempo effort (4-7m @ HMP) to add a bit of spice.
SL.. wondered where you had got to. Nicely done on the 1st 20 but as Charlie says don't miss the VLM deadline, they're a pretty merciless lot!
AW.. good to see the knee is about fixed, smoking 800's there.
Jools.. that is encouraging, glad you're feeling better at last.
TR.. good double today.
Al P.. best/prettiest route to the city is via my aforementioned suggestion through Rowntree Park. Put 'YO23 1LS' into google maps. In the bottom left corner where it says 'York Racecourse' is the normal exit point from the Park Run. From there run along Campleshon Rd to the t-junction & turn left onto Bishopthorpe Rd. After a few hundred yards turn right into Butcher Terrace which leads into the Park - you can see the Millenium Bridge in front of you. Run to the bridge then turn left onto the riverbank trail down towards Terry Ave. You can do a detour through the pond area on the left if you like but don't fall in the water & watch for the goose sh*t! First crossing point is Skeldergate Bridge where you can cross various ways (or you could keep going to the next one). Just enter the car park on the other side & you can pick up the river trail on the other side and run back up to the Millenium Bridge - lovely route.
Tuesday club night was 8 x a steep 80m hill fast which made my legs creak a bit. Easy 5m last night & the legs seemed ok today so decided on a tempo run this morning. 12m with the middle 6m @ 6:44 pace, quite pleased with that one.
Toro - beer is an essential food group !
TT - see you there then.
Wardi - still rattling along. Any races on the fixture list soon ?
Who'd have thunk it ! CW's kids do Kung Fu and mine play Cricket ! most bizarre that way round.
Indeed, to paraphrase the old song Charlie's kids are kung fu fighting while Charlie is fast as lightning!
TR.. York Brass Monkey half is a week on Sunday if it doesn't get snowed off again.
Some nice training going on as usual.
I went to the spinning class on Weds evening, planning to do an easy one as the previous 3 days had been 12k XC race, hard turbo session, hard intervals session. Unfortunately it was a pretty hard session, and whilst I should have just eased off, obviously I didn't. So that was 4 days in a row where I've put at least 9 out of 10 in my training log for RPE - probably not a good long term plan.
Went for an easy run yesterday and my left knee felt a bit dodgy at first - no pain, just a bit "wobbly". Anyway, after a few hundred metres it felt OK and I did 8M easy in about 56 mins. Feeling a bit less fatigued this morning, but another easy day today and hopefully can do some good training over the weekend as finally the weather's looking better.
Wardi - nice, hope you get a decent ROI.
Padams - sounds like a tough week, mine sounds similar.
today was supposed to be tempo or reps day, Ode said he'd done the PnD stylie 9 inc 4 approx HMP.............so this morning turned out to be 3m easy, 4M in 24:16, 2M easy. Not quite HMP but it was a shock to the system, and I'm not worried about exacty paces. I ran 4M and then looked at the watch.
Panic over, I'm in.
Wardi - more great training.
Jools - That's an encouraging run.
TR - Nice double.
Padams - Christ that's some training load.
13.5 last night with 11.5 at a controlled pace came out at 5.55, faster second 1/2 than first, legs fine this morning for 7.5 easy miles.
Wardi - that's some great training.
TR - Good effort especially blind.
Padams - sounds like a plan after that effort. I would never have thought anything including spinning class would be easy!
SL - Great!
6 in 40min for me on tired legs after the VO2 max. Day off (feeling smug as it's only week 1 back). Wife off to Spain later with son for 2 weeks.
Coffee lovers - Pact Coffee have £1 first bag offers using code BUDDY or others available. Quite nice and great price (normally £6.95) so won't be buying again! https://www.pactcoffee.com/ I have no affiliation to Pact!
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Toro - the thing with spinning is that in theory you could just keep the resistance fairly low, but in reality you just can't!
TR - nice pace on the 4M effort. HMP would be hard to hit over that distance anyway.
SL - 5:55s for a "controlled pace", nice! My training load hasn't been much in terms of distance/time, but I've been trying to do a bit more at a higher intensity. Might do a park run within my run tomorrow, but will see how I feel when I get up.
inspirational training as is clearly the norm for you lot!
Thursday night 5 aside night for me - 4 easy (feeling not watch) to footy then 60 mins 5 aside (intense) then 2.5 recovery home. Any thoughts on merits of this? (apart from obvious injury risk)
Wardi - yes might have to spice up the commutes alright, question is when? I;m in first week of pfitzinger and looking at it there is no real pace work for about 3 weeks its all easy stuff apart from strides 10x100m within a 9 mile Easy. (Monday am was my first ever strides attempt, should they feel easy to do because they did, perhaps i;m doing them wrong)
15 the morrow makes 54 for the week and 1st week done! Considering similar to Padams to include (first ever) park run within the 15. would 5k flat out be risky for novice like me? i have miles in the legs but not speed....
questions questions...
kowtow
SL - glad to hear you made it in. I also listened to the marathon talk VLM 2013 podcast a couple of days ago and recognised your name. I think Al_P got a mention on the podium as well if I'm not mistaken.
//Tmouth - I recently did my first strides (I ignored them in P&D). It's normal running at faster pace. It's nothing poncy (high knees etc). It's about exercising good form and reminding the body what it's like to run at pace. What pace well next Sat I have 10x 100 strides and will do at 5:45 - 5:40 to simulate 10k pace for next day. Before track we do 10x 100m. Nothing fancy it is a rehearsal of the pace for the session, practising hitting 19s,20s, or whatever so the rhythm is there for the reps. Otherwise the reps can be a little hit and miss as you get the "feel" for the pace.
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