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Marathons 2008
Jan - Elb Tunnel - Gobi
Jan - Dubai - Dan A (provisional)
Jan - Gloucester - Dull (Weather permitting)
Apr - Paris - PhilPub
Apr - London - EdB
Apr - London - Gobi
Apr - London - MTR
Apr - London - TT
Apr - London - Dan A
Apr - London - ColdFeet
Apr - London - Running_Bear
Apr - London (if it's on) OuchOuch
Apr - London - WW
May - Halstead - Dull (Weather permitting)
Sep - New Forest - TT
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - CM
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - Dull
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - TT
Kerrie,
For the 13 weeks of early 2007 prior to my 3 week taper, I averaged 65 miles per week.
Lowest week 54 highest 78.
My key sessions were 90mins with 70 at MP which I did twice per week.
3 weeks out, I did one of 80mins at MP.
Long run alternated between 20 miles of 2 miles easy / 2 miles at MP; and first 5 easy, middle 10 at 75% and last 5 at MP. So It turned out that 25 miles per week (35-40%) were at MP. Not sure whether this is reccommended or not, but it worked for me. 5 weeks out did a 14 mile race (Dentdale - lovely) at MP, and 4 weeks out did a 20 mile race which was supposed to be all out but cos of the weather ended up at MP (Spen 20). This was my 8th attempt at a sub-3, and it became apparent that (some of) the mistakes made prior to this were:
1) Not enough at MP
2) Didn't use gels in the race (used 4 at FLM2007)
3) Ddin't taper properly (3 week taper this time)
This got me a 2:59.
Hope this helps.
Kerrie,
Welcome.
This Autumn is the first time I have ever run more than 50 miles in a week, and therefore in a marathon build up, so you could use me as a one-man observational experiment!
First time I went sub 3 I was considerably younger than I am now and had a strong aerobic base from cycling - probably topped out at 45 miles/week during a 12 week dedicated run in. Result = 2:55
Second and third times are more recent and both run ins were hampered by injury / illness (otherwise I may have reached 60+ in a week). Came off a lower fitness base level and produced 2:59s both times.
Did 80 miles last week at the peak of my build up for a mara in just over two weeks time, so we'll see how it goes...
Underlying principal for me though is the less you run the higher quality it has to be, - I have always suffered somewhere towards the end of the marathon, and this might be down to my low mileage approach???
Kerrie
I saw the start of the elite women's race at Dublin as I ducked out of the starting area of the men's race to see who was there. I was very surprised to see so few women in there. Once you take out the international runners - the sub 2.45 runners I would think there were only a handful of women in the 2.45-3.15 range you would get on the championship start at FLM. However in the main race there were at least 2 women in front of me (I had a shocker in 2.59) and a few not far behind. My guess is you would have had a far better race running off the main start. Something for the organisers to look at next year (as well as 3 half full cups of energy drink for a 26.2 mile race).
I agree with JEJ when he says a sub 3 woman would generally need to show the same dedication to training as a sub 2.45 man, as the fastest women marathoners in the world (Paula aside) run around 2.20 and the men run around 2.05. I can think of one female who ran a 2.33 off around 65mpw and that was Tracey Morris. I don't think she had been running at that level for that long and her body might not have taken the sudden increase in mileage at that time.
My training over the next block will involve a long slow run on Sunday (65-70% MHR) and 2 `work' sessions running at between 80-85% of MHR for up to 10 miles, plus wu and cd. The rest of my running will be doubles of 4 /6, 4/ 8 and 4/10 at 70-73% MHR.
JEJ......and the place that has five marathons every year is.........
Bergen in Norway. How they manage in Dec, Jan, Feb and Mar God only knows.
Dull
Mornin'
Bailed out of my steady run yesterday at 3 miles as I had a sharp pain in my inner thigh area which didn't ease up and was affecting how I ran. Don't think it is anything serious but if it is the same when I run today then I shall take two days rest, which is in contrast to my usual 'run through it' approach.
Kerrie - no tips but welcome anyway.
Happy running all.
BR & Hilly - yeah, the elite start at Dublin wasn't well publicised. I only found out about it at the last minute through my physio. I was pretty surprised (and worried!) when I saw just how few women there were but by then it was too late. I think too I would have been better off running in the main field so at least I would have had some company and also possibly some shielding from the wind. To give you some idea, from miles 6-18 I couldn't see anyone infront of me at all (apart from when the male elites came past) and at one point wasn't even sure if I was still on the course! I was wearing a blue Ranelagh Harriers vest so you might have seen me.....
I'm going to try a gradual introduction to doubles over the next couple of months. Would you advise starting with a couple of doubles a week and should those both be easy/study runs? or is it better to keep the easy days to singles and then do an easy am run and a harder pm run?
Kerrie
That's Marie, who I run with every week
I know she does doubles some of the time, but not all, and we do the same training sessions on Tuesday and Thursdays.... I also know that she is a lot tougher than me 
Kerrie,
When in your position, my method was to ignore the traditional RW-type advice (like no more than 10% extra per week etc etc) and went straight from 6/7 to 10-12 sessions per week. Did me no harm, but I guess most of those miles were at an easy pace - from memory a maximum of 2 faster sessions in the week at that stage. Have a read through the preamble on this MG schedule about increasing training load.
Kerrie
I don't think you need doubles until you max out on singles (about 75 mpw I reckon), but I've found it does make it easier to get the mileage in (e.g. today I'm doing 2x5M easy, much easier than one 10M although the endurance training effect is probably less).
I think you can get close (NB close!) to your peak by each week doing:
Long run (~20M) - MP + 60secs or more (last few M at MP as you approach the taper)
Medium-long run (~13M) - MP + 30 secs
Tempo run - 8-10M inc. 6M at HM pace
Long intervals - k or M reps, short recovery (shorter reps and longer recovery as you approach the marathon)
That's about 50mpw. Then whatever other easy running/cross training you can fit in will help endurance, but I think diminishing returns kick in quite quickly.
That's my opinion anyway.
Jan - Elb Tunnel - Gobi
Jan - Dubai - Dan A (provisional)
Jan - Gloucester - Dull (Weather permitting)
Apr - Paris - PhilPub
Apr - London - EdB
Apr - London - Gobi
Apr - London - MTR
Apr - London - TT
Apr - London - Dan A
Apr - London - ColdFeet
Apr - London - Running_Bear
Apr - London (if it's on) OuchOuch
Apr - London - Padams (might not race it though)
May - Halstead - Dull (Weather permitting)
May - Edinburgh - Padams (maybe)
Sep - New Forest - TT
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - CM
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - Dull
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - TT
Was having a slight panic earlier. I’ve only run as far as 14 miles a couple of times since March, and my longest run in the last few weeks is 8 miles. The Bramley 20 is about 12 weeks away, so I need to get my training distances up. I’d like to get my first 20 in this side of Christmas, or at least be up to 2 hrs by then.
Hopefully I’ll be back up to the 14 again within the next 2 weeks. 2 weeks ago my calf wouldn’t let me run on it properly, so in another 2 weeks I’ll hopefully be ok.
One thing I've noticed is that folks propose tempo or MP stuff. I was wayyyy too goosed last year to do anything but womble. But then it turned out I was ill, so that's why I guess.
Jan - Elb Tunnel - Gobi
Jan - Dubai - Dan A (provisional)
Jan - Gloucester - Dull (Weather permitting)
Apr - Paris - PhilPub
Apr - London - EdB
Apr - London - Gobi
Apr - London - MTR
Apr - London - TT
Apr - London - Dan A
Apr - London - ColdFeet
Apr - London - Running_Bear
Apr - London (if it's on) OuchOuch
Apr - London - Padams (might not race it though)
Apr - London - Jools
May - Halstead - Dull (Weather permitting)
May - Edinburgh - Padams (maybe)
Sep - New Forest - TT
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - CM
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - Dull
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - TT
Going for a rare lunch-time run as I'm not in court today. After running last night I couldn't face another run in the dark and needed a lie-in this morning.
Somebody has removed me from the list!
Mentioning no names Padams.
Jan - Elb Tunnel - Gobi
Jan - Dubai - Dan A (provisional)
Jan - Gloucester - Dull (Weather permitting)
Apr - Paris - PhilPub
Apr - London - EdB
Apr - London - Gobi
Apr - London - MTR
Apr - London - TT
Apr - London - Dan A
Apr - London - ColdFeet
Apr - London - Running_Bear
Apr - London (if it's on) OuchOuch
Apr - London - WW
Apr - London - Padams (might not race it though)
Apr - London - Jools
May - Halstead - Dull (Weather permitting)
May - Edinburgh - Padams (maybe)
Sep - New Forest - TT
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - CM
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - Dull
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - TT
By the way, Padams thats about as concise a plan as I've seen.
Just about covers it, apart from some MP stuff?
Jan - Elb Tunnel - Gobi
Jan - Dubai - Dan A (provisional)
Jan - Gloucester - Dull (Weather permitting)
Apr - Paris - PhilPub
Apr - London - EdB
Apr - London - Gobi
Apr - London - MTR
Apr - London - TT
Apr - London - Dan A
Apr - London - ColdFeet
Apr - London - Running_Bear
Apr - London (if it's on) OuchOuch
Apr - London - WW
Apr - London - Padams (might not race it though)
Apr - London - Jools
Apr - London - marders
May - Halstead - Dull (Weather permitting)
May - Edinburgh - Padams (maybe)
Sep - New Forest - TT
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - CM
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - Dull
Oct - Abingdon (if it's on) - TT
I had a steady 13.5 last night at 6 40 pace, calf gave a bit of trouble towards the end but it will be sweet. Probably just my body saying it doesn't want to do 2 halfs in 4 days but it will conform sooner or later. Back on the bike today for my 10 mile each way commute at a very easy pace. It's funny how when I run I pretty much go all out but on the bike I just relax and take it easy... can't bring myself to go too easy on the runs yet as I'm going for quality (=intensity?) over quantity.
I've updated the plan that JEJ put up, and it started 2 weeks ago !
Definitely takes the pain away from running slowly.
Sue C. Good luck with the sharp pain, hope its as you hope and nowt serious.
Kerrie. Welcome. I'm with Padams on the view of maxing out those singles before attempting doubles. Especially for the Marathon, according to Pfitzywatsits more to be gained per marathon training doing a 10 miler than 2x5's. But for 10k's the other way around is apparently better. I reckon I could get over 70 miles a week in if I try on singles alone, without doing owt stupid, this would equate to probably around 60 at your pace.
TR - the distance will come. If you're currently doing 8, why not just add 2 miles to one of your runs each week and you'll hit the 20 before Christmas.
JEJ - That training plan is insane! I would love to follow it to see the results but I just couldn't bring myself to commit to it whilst still having a life. I do need a plan so might do a bit of cut and paste from it to add a bit more stucture and variation to my running.
TR - I noticed that too about the plan, it finishes 23rd April and our FLM is 10 days earlier, that plan started 2 days ago so already behind by 12 days!
WW - sorry about removing you! On the training plan, I wasn't suggesting that would be it for the week, they are just the key sessions I reckon. On the MP training, some of the medium-long run might be at MP and some of the ends of the long runs. I've never done much MP training, because I find your options are:
I don't want to start a fight, but I'm not a fan of running at MP in training!
I might try and take some aspects from that plan but I seriously doubt I could follow it all, I would be asleep at my desk my 11am!
kerrieoc - there are less insane MG plans kicking around - check out his website, 2.09 events, I have one he did for New York this year which may need tinkering with a bit but is more 'do-able'.
DFC - Thank you for asking. I have just done my tempo run for the week and didn't feel a thing, although I am still going to err on the side of caution and not do my LSR with Mrs DFC tomorrow afternoon. That way, if I bail out after a few miles or need to go steady etc I don't spoil her run too which I would feel carp about.
Re MP running, I didn't do a great deal of it for Lochaber, apart from tagging on 3-4 miles at MP at the end of the later LSRs (as per Padams) I didn't find it hard to 'find' the right pace on the day and my splits were really even. I wonder if there are any physiological benefits from doing MP running? I notice the 'new' MG plan has more of the stuff than before.
Tempo run went well, despite it being mighty breezy here. I did 4 miles at 10k pace (6.36, 6.44, 6.46, 6.42) I realise that that is recovery pace running for most of you guys but believe me, that's good for me!
Happy running again people.
Today's run
I'm nursng a bit of a sore foot at the moment and I wasn't sure whether it would feel better running slow or fast, so I started at 7:14 pace and then sped up a bit for mile 2 (7:08). Same again for mile 3 (7:00). Foot seemed to be getting better rather than worse so I thought I'd see if I could run each mile quicker than the last, just for the hell of it. Makes quite a good session actually. So, my next miles were 6:53, 6:46, 6:37. Then I turned into quite a stiff breeze, which made the last 1.3 miles a bit of a challenge, but I turned in 6:28 then 5:40 for the last 0.3. Sometimes it's fun to do things like that, just for the hell of it. Quite exhilarating, really.
I might regret it later, but foot (and knee) don't seem too bad now anyway.
Coro
1) LSR (6 > 20M; 9 > 16M) - second half @ MP + 30/45 sec
2) LSR2 (12-14M) or 16 x 1 min (3k pace)
3) 6 to 10M Tempo (HM pace + 10 to 15 sec)
4) 5 x 1M intervals (5k pace)
Padams
1) Long run (~20M) - MP + 60secs or more (last few M at MP as you approach the taper)
2) Medium-long run (~13M) - MP + 30 secs
3) Tempo run - 8-10M inc. 6M at HM pace
4) Long intervals - k or M reps, short recovery (shorter reps and longer recovery as you approach the marathon)
Conversely though, I reckon the MP runs did also play a sizeable part in getting me a sub 3, but maybe only because I was starting from such a poor point.
Post base building I'll probably be taking a similar approach (though I do like my long runs about the 23 mark) but may also have one other session where I do 6-8 @ MP....
IMO HM / 10km / 5km / 3km / mile speeds are better training paces for general development, but in the interests of event specificity, some marathon rhythm work is needed. And to keep this specific, putting it into the long run is ideal. Or something horrible like 4 x 5km @ MP (5mins steady as recovery) - which is more or less a long run anyway.
Coro - 5 x mile @ 5km?! I couldn't hit target pace for the last rep of 4 x 1600 @ 5km through summer, but had no probs holding pace on race day.
Just been discussing 2008 race plans with my training partner (shooting for sub 2:20). Quite simple - HM in March (City Pier City) and will then decide on FLM or his national 10,000m champs (early May) based on that result. Dec, Jan and Feb are for serious training.
I might just get converted to this running at lunchtime lark as and when court work permits it - it was so nice to be out in the daylight (plus the added advantage is that I can do an entirely flat run from the office, whereas if I run from home I have to do at least 2 fairly sizeable hills).
7.5 miles at 8m/m. Headwind on the way out, tailwind on the way back. Definitely the best the legs have felt since Hamsterjam.
On the training debate: I follow P&D (roughly), although I'll tinker with it a bit this time as I can't quite face their 18 week up to 70 mpw schedule for the 3rd time in 18 months. This means not much MP work. And not much fast stuff at all.