well here is what the fuss was about.

"hI sCRAPPY!

I have been in the same boat as you and yes it is hard to train and motivate when depression hits. I'd say firstly, seek some counselling prior to going on anti ds (if possible). Anti D's are great when you are vry bad and nothing seems to work. Good counselling is a must in all cases(bound to say that coz I am one now). Forget targets for now and do some low pressure easy running I'd say. Eat well and don't have caffeine too late at night before you go to bed. Doing this helped me no end and the last bout I had, I handled nicely without anti D's. There is a good "Anti-depressantts and training thread" but that is for peops on them (and it appears hooked on them -though I may be wrong)

take special care of yourself now and good luck."

the above statement has been taken to mean that:

1/I am against anti-ds

2/ I believe that all anti-ds are addictive

3? I am not a worthy counsellor

4? I am ill informed

5/ A counsellor's job is to give advice (even off duty)

I tried to challenge - some understood -others just wanted to make a massive mountain outa what was written. My one post on a thread -early in the morning was followed by endless posts suggesting that the statement above meant all that - I must be going crackers.
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Comments

  • keep smiling , you are doing well with your non smoking , keep postive,
  • hi there :)

    are you alright, me bit worried about you , has someone upset you I read this thread and got worried about you , do you want a chat :)
  • I see a lady quite often because of what happened when I was younger, and she has help me no end , and helped me with what happened ,
    I bet you are really great like she is and you care alot about other people , which I think is lovely , you take care x

    Bugsy
  • Hoose I know what you're talking about and I'm upset for you. I'm a trained counsellor too and I understood what you meant about antidepressants. I think what you said has been blown out of all proportion and also think people have been gratuitously rude to you by suggesting that you aren't properly trained or kept up to date with therapies. I'm sure you're a member of the professional body (BACP or similar) and that you would never suggest someone come off anti-ds. Also, on the other thread, the original poster said they weren't that keen on taking drugs.

    Don't know about the antidepressants thread as I haven't read it. But I did see what you wrote and thought you were doing your best to be supportive.
  • the hoose Goer sounds lovelly Ipod I bet she /he nice to talk and kind like the lady I see regular , she's done loads and been very understanding :)
  • I'm sure he is Mrs BB - the fact that he cares so much about being misunderstood proves that.
  • it sounds like he has been misunderstood Im like you have not read the thread , I hope he is alright ,

    it took me years to see someone like yourselfs , I go for Psychosexual counselling and the lady has been really supportive and understanding and has helped loads

    :) I'm am alot happerer in myself and about myself
  • That's great Mrs BB - if you find the right counsellor it can really improve your life. I had a great counsellor as part of my training (needed it anyway!) and its made me a much happier person too.

    Take care now. :o)
  • thanks ipod :)

    me going to bed now nighty night x
  • (((Hoosey)))

    I can see what you were trying to say and I'm horrified by the way it has been misread.
  • Hoose I reported you as you know.

    The reason I did is this thread and your comments on the original thread and many of your comments on other threads, greatly alarm me.


    I am not out to get you, I just feel that much of what you say is so blinkered and Hoose focused that it is potentially dangerous.

    I wish you well in dealing with your demons but don't think you are ready to deal with everyone else and their mental health issues with your "professional" hat on. An online running forum is not the place.

    It runs the risk of doing more harm than good.
  • Hoose - I hadn't looked at Scrappy's thread until now, but if I were Scrappy I'd be mighty pissed off at you for starting another thread in relation to it.

    Scrappy posted asking for advice about depression - so people were only likely to read that thread if they had something to offer or were interested in depression.

    If you start a thread called 'here's what all the fuss is about' many people on this forum will look because like me they think 'I wonder what that Hoose is on about now'.

    Result - Scrappy gets his/her business broadcast to a large section of the forum.

    Don't you have anything better to do with your time? as a counsellor I would hope you had the ability to deal with issues like this without asking the forum to validate what you have done.
  • I agree with what IronWifey says about starting another thread - that is poor form Hoose.

    However, if Hoose wants to offer advice or opinions I can't see why Beebs should try and get a thread pulled. If they disagree then go on the thread and disagree - if they have some qualifications in the field then say so and if people think that adds weight to what they say that's their call. What we, OK I, don't want are people who have a qualification in whatever field thinking they can dictate what threads are and are not suitable for an open forum.

    I certainly can't see anything offensive in what Hoose says at the top of this thread. It's true anti-depressants are dished out like smarties, not to say many don't benefit but many get told they need them when they don't.
  • Oh, I have to say something. I agree that everyone has a right to their opinions (well to a point), but I think what people took offense at was Hoose's statement -

    'There is a good "Anti-depressantts and training thread" but that is for peops on them (and it appears hooked on them -though I may be wrong)'

    Which to be fair is pretty offensive to the people on that thread. And I think he should be man enough to stand up and apologise for that.


  • Hoose

    What I posted on Scrappy's thread did not justify the private email you sent to me.

    I did not say you were against taking antidepressants - it was the bit about the antid's and training thread as mentioned by Mark W above that did it for me.

    I just pointed out that talking therapies alone don't work for everyone. Also, as buney pointed out that sometimes people have to wait so long for access to talking therapies that they get much worse in their depression. Not everyone is in a position to pay privately for counsellors.

    I know you have had it tough in your life experience until now and you are battling your own addiction against nicotine which you have been struggling with. But please don't take it out on other people. As well as telling people to read what you have written, please take your own advice and read what other people have written, don't skim-read.

    I'm not going to say anymore on this subject - it is such a can of worms and not something to be debated when someone first posts asking advice about depression. That person has probably thought long and hard about posting and is probably very nervous about doing so.

    Anyway, if anyone slams me for this - I don't care. I just wanted to have my say after getting that private email. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but should think before they word their posts.
  • Popsider It isn't just this thread, its Hoose's entire "counselling manner."

    He has enough of his own issues to deal with without trying to support people in an allegedly professional manner.

    I was simply using this thread as a vehicle to express my concerns to RW towers
  • Hoose, I'm going to reply to comments on here 'cos I'd rather keep them off Scrappy's thread.

    'DG - read what I said and it was NOT to do with me ever telling anybody on anti-ds to go off them -I tell nobody nothing. What I said(and with thought) was thatI would try therapy before anti ds and what actually seems clear to me, that anti ds are useful when symptoms get intolerable. I have used 'em myself at this point -they kept me grounded.


    I reallly really apologise for not being as clear a I should have been.'

    'bunes- yes if the suffering is for too long whilst waiting for therapy , I'd say try St Johns wort if it aint too bad OR (get it clear folks) anti-ds - best not suffer. However Imy job is not to advise or direct. I can give my view here(and it is informed).'

    'My mum was hooked on tranquilisers for years and I suffered that as a kid.'

    ADs are effective in the treatment of mild to moderate depression. Again, there's plenty of research supporting this.

    I'm not sure why St John's Wort. It's a drug like any other (or it wouldn't work). Being made from a plant doesn't make it any 'safer' or 'gentler' than other ADs (zanamivir [Relenza], the antiviral used for 'bird flu' is made from star aniseed, tamoxifen for chemotherapy is made from yew, etc etc) and SJW has been associated with liver damage and dangerous interactions with other meds. I wouldn't ordinarily call you out on this quite so much, but if you declare yourself to be an accredited counsellor, then give an opinion on treatments, you need to make sure it's an informed one. I'd suggest that it might be more useful to talk about what has worked for you, rather than 'as a counsellor...'

    Antidepressants are not the same class of medication as 'tranquilisers' / sedatives, which can lead to addiction. They have completely different mechanisms of action, different effects, and are prescribed for different purposes. I have close family members who've been on benzodiazepines for years & struggled to come off. I'm not going to get into a 'who's the worst' competition because it's stupid, but I've been on more meds than standard SSRI/SNRI ADs, & seen plenty of people on them too.

    I'm not sure if the comments about 'having an agenda' were aimed at me. But it may be worth pointing out that i'm studying psychology, not medicine. If I do a postgraduate course in Clinical Psychology to allow me to treat patients, then it will only ever be with 'talking therapies' rather than medication. (I don't actually plan to work in mental health as a career - I'm more interested in adults with learning/developmental disabilities - but even if I wanted to treat people with depression I'd not be the one prescribing meds).
  • I read Scrappy's thread and saw Hoose's comments had got up some people's noses. I couldn't see how, personally, but I obviously don't have any buttons that can be pressed in relation to anti D's.

    We all have our buttons and when pressed it can hurt.

    One thing I am certain of is that Hoose wouldn't intentionally set out to be hurtful or offensive ... he's too sweet. I'm not sure what happened there between him and creamy and so can't comment on that. Hoose's post at the top of this thread did attempt a disclaimer ... doesn't that count for anything?

    We all have to choose whether to take what is said on these forums with a pinch of salt or otherwise but some of the posts I read that are directed at Hoose on this and other threads are just short of bullying and I'm not sure Hoose really deserves that.

    (((Hoosey)))
  • FYI, NICE guidelines suggest that antidepressants should be used in moderate to severe (not mild) depression.

    'Starting treatment
    In moderate depression, antidepressant medication should
    be routinely offered to all patients before psychological interventions.
    Common concerns about taking medication should be addressed. For example, patients should be advised that craving and
    tolerance do not occur
    , and that taking medication should not be seen
    as a sign of weakness
    .
    All patients who are prescribed antidepressants should be informed, at the time that treatment is initiated, of potential side effects and of the risk of discontinuation/withdrawal symptoms.
    Patients started on antidepressants should be informed about the delay in onset of effect, the time course of treatment, the
    need to take medication as prescribed and the possible discontinuation/withdrawal symptoms. Written information appropriate to the patient’s needs should be made available.'

    [my italics].
  • And I'm sure in starting this thread, Hoose's only intention was to direct this argument away from Scrappy's thread so that Scrappy's thread could be saved from hijack!
  • The bottom line, and the part that horrifies me the most is that someone, who was asking for help and advice, has now had there comments and original post embroilled in something which could have been defused elsewhere.

    It's shamefull of hoose to roll his own feelings of misjustice into a huge debate around a sensitive message subject.

    If that person had been a regular poster it may have been less damaging. We can only wait and see if that person feels brave enough to continue making posts.
  • Errr aren't we losing sight of the fact that 'that person' chose to post on the worldwide web?

    Hoose only repeated his own post - not the original one and FFS I'm sure 'scrappy' is a pen name. It could be my next door neighbour or my brother! Does it matter?
  • Yes I think it does matter, Minty, scrappy asked for help and as PD says

    "had there comments and original post embroilled in something which could have been defused elsewhere."


    That was not fair or right
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