I'm not the greatest swimmer, I usually get out the water just after 1/2 way in the Tri's I do, and typically do sessions like 15 to 20 x 100 with10 sec rest in the low 1:40s, or 400s around 7:00 with 15sec rest.
When I first started out I did some swimming with a Pull Buoy and was lots quicker with it. recently I've been reading a lot that folks do pull bouy and paddle work. Today I did some 200s alternating PB and non PB and was ~5sec quicker on average without it. So I must now swim with a better body position or kick than I used to.
Why do folks train with a PB ? is it to recreate a wettie swim position/style ? and should I be doing some PB swimming ? When I first used it when I was a novice, it made me loads better but I stopped using it as I was worried it would become a crutch and I'd be carp without it,
I think that using paddles is no go as I only swim during public swimming times and then arn't allowed then.
Comments
I am no expert and for me using a pull bouy seems to bring on back pain. Probably because I have plenty of buoyancy already in my thighs and @rse and it ruins by position.
The good thing about them is doing drills and mixing training up a bit. My OH is loads quicker with one and I put this down to poor technique
I tried using one once and my legs sank! Not quite sure why but I cant quite seen to get the hang of them. Not tried again. I do all my drills with no aids.
TR - video!
Pull buoy hurts my back too. Bends it the wrong way, so does a wetsuit.
Think about what it is supposed to do TR, raise your legs up. If you are doing 7 min 400s, you ain't slow. I can manage a 1.45 100 at best and maybe a 7.40 OW 400 on a good day.
I woudl guess that if your core is strong, you don't need it. But despite what some may say on here (lots of opinions) a strong kick in the swim is essential for a swimmer. It's just about how many beans you use up there and don't save it for bike/run.
i thought the pullbuoy was so that you could concentrate on your arm technique.........
I have cap buoyancy so always swim with a pullbuoy...............it has never given me a problem with my lower back which is tempremental ...............so confirms that my core and buoyancy without it is totally cocked up...
disadvantage of using one all the time is that i can not enter the majority of eurpoean IM races as there is always the outside chance of non wetsuit swim.....and i would then be totally fucked
Seren uses one in case she drowns
sweetfeet - good idea, I had a couple of lessons instead of that video a couple of years ago when you had yours.
interesting re the back ache, cos I did feel my back ache a bit using it and I do get backache on the bike in Tri's - probably cos I rarely swim in my wettie. So I guess I should swim in my wettie more, it sounds like I can replicate the position a bit by swimming with a pull buoy sometimes. It makes a change of routine at the least.
or you could get a wetsuit with little buoyancy so that it replicates your normal swimming position
TR - you might want to have a look at these - will give you extra bouyancy in a pool. Never tried them, so no odea how good they are. If they work let me know
Ha ha, Pull bouys are free to use at my pool so I'll take that option over buying a new wettie or shorts. I'm a cheapskate when it comes to triathlon.
I swim with it to work on arm technique and make my arms work harder. I kick quite hard so when i stop kicking completely my arms have a lot more work to do. Without the pull bouy if i didn't kick my legs would sink. I don't really see an advantage to trying to replicate a wetsuit position but maybe there's something there.. I've started using the pull buoy with paddles as well, again just to work the arms a bit more.
I cruise at 2:00 for 100m in the pool, 1:50 when i moving it.....
And I am stuck at 1:10-1:12 for an IM swim
I find i am faster with a pull boy as well but it takes me a few sessions to get the hang of it.
I use paddles at my local pool but it depends on how busy it is. i prefer smaller ones. again they take time ti get used ti. they build shoulder strenghth
Rather than regurgitate....
http://www.teamtbb.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1426:looking-for-clues-&catid=37:news-headlines&Itemid=17
I hadn't read that Sutto missive before but as someone who always uses a pullbuoy in the pool because I do all my tri events in open water in a wetsuit, then he's onto something I guess...
Sutto talks sense; writes like shit.....
He's never going to be a best seller
But I never question the SSS, I just follow.
out of interest - have you tried neoprene shorts for extra flotation?? been toying with getting a pair but not sure if they offer any more than a decent pullbuoy does although perhaps adding the 2 together might get the arse even higher in the water!
Nope not been suggested. Only time I've seen Sutto use them was for Chrissie's hamstring strain.
Apparently a bicycle pump up the arse and some vaseline is what the East Germans did!
excellent, thanks. So it is indeed important to replicate the position, which seeing as I rarely don my wettie must be something I need to include.
nice....
that and a few buckets of assorted pills from the age of 8
TR - the other important thing is that you lower the HR whilst using the PB.
This is a big factor in the mix of the full triathlon training. It allows you to put in harder swim sets into recovery days.
Don't confuse this with resting your legs - if anything, you want to add some kick before and after the main set to loosen off your legs after a hard run or bike (reduces the likelihood of cramping if you add the kick)
I loved that article.makes me feel so much better
Gary - thanks. CRAB already told me your recommendation of doing some 50m reps the day after a hard or long run. I have achy legs today from big gear (I'm listening to your 5hr 1/2 IM posts too) on the bike Saturday, and a 10M race y'day, so just did the 50 reps (with a mix of with and without pull buoy).
FB - with a mix of learning to swim in a wettie (via some pull buoy) and then learning to ride my MTB of road, that XTERRA trophy is in the bag ! ha ha - I managed to put myself into a ditch in the bike leg of the Swashbuckler and thats pretty much pancake !
Good article, thanks for posting. May try 2 normal size PB's and see what happens.
First time Ive read that, guess I better find a bigger pool boy and get down to 55 min IM swim
Pixie, even with a PB I flutter kick, it is important to keep the toes pointing back otherwise you are creating unwanted drag
EP - relax the heels and try to just let the feet and toes trail behind you - which is often easier said than done!.. there's a tendency when using a PB to straighten the feet tightly like a ballet dancer on points as you try to get a tight grip on the PB - that often leads to cramping as it's unnatural (unless you're a ballet dancer...). if you keep the legs relaxed you don't need much pressure to keep the PB in place
I never kick with a pullbuoy.incold water i often cross my feet to keep them a tad warmer
Put a band around your ankles - I don't kick with a PB either, sometimes I've had some cramping, its usually because I've got a hard run in some time.
Start the set with 6X 50 kick - should sort you out.
Just to throw another angle into this and yet confuse even more, I asked a question to Dan from Swim For Tri on Facebok about pull buoys and the TBB post about using them a lot...
"HI David, conflicting advice usually suggests difference of opinion. In the world of swimming I think it moreso relates to the difference of client you are working with. Bretts group of elites are probably swimming 30km a week. The strongest swimmers I work with probably 30km a month. To accelerate and fast track a good duathlete into a Triathlete with unlimited resources and time his approach probably works. My approach helped another 6 people get to Kona this year. Two different methods for two very different groups. Also age comes into this, a younger body is more adaptable, perhaps with fewer bad habits to unlearn. Here are my views - people do not appreciate how much they kick in a wetsuit. 99% say they don't. I describe this as the pendulum effect. A tiny movement at the hip still creates vast movements at the foot. Hence why using a pull buoy is no substitute. Swimming with a PB for kilometres will not help you learn to kick properly.
When I describe a good legkick ie kicking properly it is not for propulsion, this is a really ambitious project. For me a good kick is one that creates zero drag (stays hidden behind the trunk) does not sink and helps create rotation.
Pull buoys have a place in fitness training but I question their use as a learn to swim faster aid if the legs are causing issues."
For what it's worth, I've never used a pull buoy, band, central snorkel, drag shorts, whatever. I think with a combination of one or more and some actual swim sets rather than just swimming up and down the pool then I may get quicker...