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The Middle Ground
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I've killed the thread (again)!
Delamere parkrun this morning. About 10k effort for 21:50 by my watch, 21:57 officially (a lot of people don't understand the word go - they seem to think it means press go in your iphone, put your phone in your pocket then think about running!) A parkrun PB by 30 seconds and more confirmation that I'm moving in the right direction!
Happy Saturday everyone
I did a 12 miler today. Usual slow first mile then I kicked on. Kept having to pull myself back as every time I checked my watch I was running between 7.30 and 7.45 however the effort felt right. I wish I had remembered to wear my hrm just to see what I was working to. I guess though now I'm doing a fair bit of threshold and mara pace stuff, comparatively 8 mm will feel slow and easy.
Debating whether to have some beers with the footy later. I think its the only way I'll stay awake. Last nights late game was a miserable fail, waking up on sofa some time after the end!
DT – That sounds good with regards the pace. When I was being coached I found my easy pace actually got slower as I was often tired after the harder efforts. Sounds like you are adapting well to the workload.
TR – No posts from you for a while. I hope the foot niggle hasn’t turned out to be serious?
Chubby – Good progress, looking good!
Really busy couple of weeks for me so running has taken a bit of a back seat, though still been ticking along. Have found it hard work in the humidity. Don’t know if everyone else finds it a as tough going? Anyway I’m now in my new place so that’s out of the way. A few more weeks of my course then that will be largely done as well so hopefully a bit more time soon. Looks like Florence is off the cards due to logistics. Thought you could fly from Newcastle but seemingly not (sure it was ok when I last checked, so I reckon flights must have changed). I’m thinking of Amsterdam as a possible alternative. Anyone got any other suggestions (anytime from mid- October until end of year)?
Mr V- I do think this is where i am getting some benefits from a winter of marathon training, im able to cope with the effort a bit better than I otherwise might. Just had my next four weeks through, spied a few 10k pace sessions in there
Not heard from TR or Simon in a while and to a lesser extent WJH??
You shoukld have a look on the p and d thread at the autumn marathon list to see if anything takes your fancy.
MrV ... good news with moving home - nothing worse than having all that to deal with. RE: Autumn October marathons ... Chester on 5th and Abingdon on 19th are both ones I've done and would be happy to do again. This year it's going to be Dublin for me on Monday 27th (it's a bank holiday there).
DT - sounds like things are going well if you're accidentally going too fast over 12M.
After 2 weeks of warming up with 67M easy running and 36M cycling, today was Day 1 of my Haddapted P&D 18/55 schedule ... 5.4M with 4.2 at subLT - 7:28/m for 82% maxHR.
Mr V - hope you settle in quickly.
Managed to sneak in a couple of 6 milers whilst on school trip so mileage should be respectable this week,
Didn't ask on Saturday. I came 16th out of 228 at Delamere parkrun. Now I know I'm not a great runner and in a standard club run I'm lucky to come in the top third, but the top 7% or so seems a bit excessive for me. Is this standard at parkrun or does Delamere have a particularly weak field?
Evening!
Thought I'd better reply so that CB won't have killed the thread again!!
Re parkrun: they are many and varied, and the standard varies more than the courses do. Have you run Burnage, CB? You might be even higher up the field!
Talking of which, a friend of mine is starting a pr at Cheadle Hulme. It won't be a pb course!
Mr V: Have a look at La Rochelle! A few on the sub 3 thread have done it and I hear other good reports also. Flights to Nantes if I remember correctly,and then train. Daughter worked there one summer and that was the route that she took...and the guys from the sub 3 thread were NE based, I believe.
CB: are you still doing DM? Won't be there I'm afraid...some football or other...
Actually ran 2k this evening: hope there is no reaction to the hamstring tomorrow.
Dr Dan, back in the marathon mix. I know that I couldn't face that still.
Cb, I've only done parkrun three times. At my local one if you get roughly sub 20 you will be tyop 10 of about 160. If I ventured into Birmingham and did circa 20 min I would be about 30th of about 300 so top 10%. So yes I guess top 7% does seem generous from a 21.57.
Heavy few days for me following 12 Saturday, hill session Sunday, 30 minute mp with mini interval pyramid yesterday then 4 x10 min threshold tonight. That represented a fair jump for me as most I'd done to date was 4x 8. The third one wiped me out as first 2.5 min were uphill. Thankfully circumstances are such that there is nothing tasty until weekend. Life was such that last week had to be back loaded and this week front loaded.
Morning all - another busy week flies by (I always seem to have time to post on Wednesdays...)
Mr V, honestly the 10k did not feel that way! It was just hard, plain and simple.
TBH looks a good club - some very good times in the mix there.
cb, good going at parkrun - up here Go means it's every runner for themselves and we have had a fall or two recently (we start on grass so not quite as bad as tarmac).
DT, I am finding my sleep pattern is all over the place with the WC on. I made the mistake of watching Iran-Nigeria the other night however it did mean I got an early night!
Simon is around somewhere, have seen him on Facebook but not sure what his running is like right now.
Your threshold stuff is going well right now, as you are increaing the length of eah rep are you seeing a pace improvement as well over time?
Training-wise for me last week ended up being pretty good - 70M almost on the nose which included a 15.5M long run on Sunday. Did some hills Friday (basically just 7*200m around mile intensity w/400m jog - I have a nice 600m loop scoped out which is 200m up a reasonable hill & 400m steadily back down to the start) which were quite tough on the quads - shall stick with it!
Then last night did a long tempo which was basically a combination of Lydiard's "3/4 effort" run and Hadd's sub-LT - 45 mins @ 80% WHR (or just a touch over 86% MHR for me) which over time I will be building up to an hour.
Ended up with 7.2M @ 6:30/m which was a surprisingly good start. Will be interesting to see how this improves over the next few months.
Good going on the 2k Alehouse. I'm still doing DM at the moment, but am feeling very run down today. A rest and lots of food might make me feel better!
You're getting some good training in DT. I'm looking forward to seeing how it pays off in races.
Good goind Duck. I did fear for some people at parkrun as a sub 17 5k runner was trying to get through with his toddler in a huge running buggy!
Me too cb, though im still in IF it pays off camp!!
Yep Duck im shattered from a heavy training load of late and staying up watching the footy.
Re threshold, im not getting the chance to settle at rep times to see pace improvment. If i look back 5 weeks ago though when I was on 3 x 8 min, 4 x 10 is a fairly big increase in load. Im pretty sure if i dropped back down to 3 x 8 min it would be much easier than a month ago.
Looks like a decent week or so's training for you.
You may recall i mentioned when i ran that 5 miler and my boss' son beat me and no one would believe i was not racing and then he claimed he does no running and hadnt run since a half in March that he hadnt trained for. Anyway, I had a little gander at parkrun and found that the week before the 5 miler he ran a 19.25 which was about a 30 second pb set a month or so earlier and a overall drop in less than a year of nearly 2 minutes. Not bad off no training!!!
Dunham Massey 5k (the downhill one)
I was still feeling pretty shattered tonight so didn't have massive expectations. I thought if I ran really well I may just sneak 20:30. I got a good warm up in and lined up. Last time I started too far down the field so I slotted in with not too many people in front of me!
When we started suddenly there were loads of people running slowly in front of me! Note to self - lots of people will slot in from the sides just before the start. I managed to get a decent pace up but was running just off the path on the grass for the first 400m or so. Things settled down and I found I was running far too fast, but feeling good. The first 800m was slightly downhill on tarmac so I just went with it. I went through the first km at 6:10 pace, then hit the uphill(ish) trail section, and hit the first mile in 6:30.
I was still on the trail for the first part of the second mile, but soon hit the tarmac for another lap. I was starting to pay for my early exuberance, but managed to hold it together on the downhill, but as soon as I hit the trail again I started to really struggle and hit mile 2 in 6:38.
The next third of a mile was still slightly uphill and on trail, and I was really strugglinjg to hold pace, at one point my average pace for the mile so far went over 7 minutes. By the time I hit the tarmac I had it under 7 minutes, just, and had just over 1k to go. I managed to dig deep for the last km and mile 3 was 6:34.
A final push for the line and I finished in 20:10. A 5 second pb and much happiness. I am feeling really confident of going sub 20 in Sale in 2 weeks time.
Nice one, CB, and a nice report too! Should have taken the decision to watch at DM: sadly watched some guys in white chasing a ball around in Brazil and failing to touch it very constructively. Roll out 2018.
Have been checking out my Commonwealth Games tickets and am there from Tues 29th to Sun 3rd. Hockey/squash/badminton/athletics plus anything else I can pick up, plus road cycling, etc. Anyone else going to be there?
I got home and got on with some marking. In hindsight a good decision
.
Alehouse - have got tickets for the gymnastics (my wife's choice) on the Tuesday morning and then athletics on the Wednesday evening (both our choices). Unfortunately I don't believe either of Farah's races fall on the Wednesday night.
Should say Tuesday 29th and Wednesday 30th July
Nicely done Chubby - sub 20 just a matter of time now. Hopefully just 2 weeks!
Well done CB great improvements this year to go alongside the rediscovered mojo!
Some good training and recent 10k Duck even if not the time you wanted. Likewise with the World Cup here too.
Good to hear you might be coming past the worst of your injury problems Andrew, hopefully you can get some decent and sustained training in over the second part of the year.
Shame about Florence Mr V and am with you on the heat, it does me no good with running.
Hope there are more post injury improvements for you too Alehouse.
TR, was intending to reply a while back, I did have a foot roller and it seemed to have done the trick. It's a niggle that is not going anywhere though and is more a case of managing it! After a quality session on the track a while back it became rather sore for a few days, more so than normal. Bought a few new pairs of GT 2000s now, not so much a case of lessons learnt more just not having much time and lots of priorities over the previous few months. Hope you are not suffering injury wise either?
Looks like you are getting some decent sessions in DT (threshold sessions look pretty demanding) and a solid run at Castes. Have been pretty quiet recently what with not much going on. Mileage has been low and a 5 miler feels like 10 miler stamina wise over previous months. I did race a road mile at the start if the month which was poorly executed (Half way in 2:30 to finish in 5:35). That said, it's not my distance and a bit of fun. I do think that longer term that another marathon next year has to be my best hope of knocking more off a PB. Might do a 5k over the coming weeks/next few months and then its HMs and 10k races in the Autumn.
Still slow on here. Delamere parkrun this morning in exaclty the same time as last week (same effort but felt slower at the time!)
WJH I dream of a mile time like that! fitness will come back with mileage (but you knew that anyway
).
Decent mile time that wjh. I've never tried to race anything below 5k.
That sub 20 will come soon cb!
OK couple of days for me. Just done a pretty decent Kenyan hills session this pm. Really didn't fancy it at 6pm but forced myself out for 3 x 10 min. Fortunately there is as lane by me that seemed about right and was heavy in tree cover so avoided the sun. I only needed my hrm and timer so no issue with GPS. One observation tonight, and I can't work out if its a positive, was that I worked my Hr to 181. I've not been able to run hard enough in a while to see 180 and its normally reserved for the eye balls out part of a 10k. However, whilst I was unquestionably working hard I was not at that level of effort.
Something I've just read says that your Hr hitting higher numbers suggests less fitness but I'd have thought be able to reach a higher Hr without feeling like your maxing, when before that Hr was Max is a good thing??
Hi folks, I am still alive, I had been ridiculously busy with work hence the lack of posting and once things had calmed down I had gotten out of the habit of looking at the site!
Anyway, my last post reported a heel pain, well I think it turned out to be a mild case of Plantar Fasciitis. The good news is I was able to shift it quite quickly and only lost a week-10 days training. Last week was my first proper weeks training since the Marathon, 51 miles including an interval session of 6 x 3 mins off 2 min and a 5.1 mile tempo run (York parkrun + 2 miles tempo after, hence 0.1m).
Fitness seems ok, I have lost a bit from pre-marathon fitness but not a great deal and reckon three or four more weeks like last week will see me back in shape and ready to push on into PB territory. Plan is quite simple for now, a weekly tempo run, a VO2max interval session, a long run and enough supportive mileage to make up around 60 miles per week. There will be races in there but mostly ‘B’ races, so will train through for the most part.
I have a 5k race on Wednesday, not expecting a fast time but it will give me a good idea of where I am at and will probably help with the sharpening up bit!
I will have a read back in a moment, hope to read about some good running with some strong performances and a PB or two?!!!
DT – just read the Castles relay report, reads like an excellent performance with even splits all the way, excellent execution and also good to get involved in a sprint finish. They are tough after 10 miles of hard running.
As for the HR thing, sounds like a good thing, maybe you are toughening up mentally? The Welsh Castles reports suggests you are. Also when in good shape I can hold higher a HR for longer and feel comfortable doing it. Also, you have been doing lots of LT work recently, that will help you hold a high HR, that’s kind of the point of LT work. Reads like good progress to me.
Dr Dan – RE: your Marathon plan, 18 subLT runs? Seems like a lot to squeeze in with all the other sessions you mention. Looks to be a good mix though. I was talking to coach about my next Marathon and assuming I am fit and not carrying an injury, I will do more MP (subLT) and more LT work next time round. So quite similar to your approach by the looks of things.
Mr V: RE your Marathon plan, I think it’s a good plan to base it on P&D as they are well structured plans IMO. I also agree with Dr Dan and DT that dropping some VO2max sessions is probably for the best, though I think it’s a good thing to do a couple to help you sharpen up but no need for the 6 or 7 in the plan though.
As Dr Dan says, the VO2max is very useful to those with excellent Marathon conversion, for me, Dr Dan and possibly yourself, endurance work and more tempo work (MP or LT) would do you more good IMO.
Though velloo makes a good point as well.
As for race choice, what about the Town Moor Marathon
Nice looking race list Duck.
Bad luck on the Adductor injury Alehouse, fingers crossed for a quick recovery. As for Commonwealth Games, we are at the Athletics on Thursday 31st July.
Excellent work on the PB, CB, sub 20 is just round the corner
I love mile races WJH, get another one booked in and you will take a big chink of that time off with better pacing. Oh and run some more miles
Welcome back TR. Have fun on Weds.
8 x 200m (200m rest) this morning. Schoolboy error of pressing stop instead of lap for the first effort. I ran around 350m before I noticed! That took the wind out of my sails a bit. The other 7 averaged out as the fastest session so far this year
(just!)
Ridiculously busy with work and external marking at the moment, but am trying to keep running...
Wouldn't it be nice to go part-time to run more? I might have to start running at midnight the way my work patterns are looking over the next month...
Sorry I haven't had time to read back yet but a quick race update. Did the Skye HM and it was a really tough hilly race, I knew it was going to be a struggle as I haven't been doing much distance. In fact the day of the race (warm up 2-3miles) was the longest run I've done since last year! My time was pretty slow 1.32+ but fast enough to get in the prizes and I actually felt fine afterwards so I probably could've pushed it a bit.
But the real story of the race was my OH he went sub 1.15 for the first time, which is mental considering the course. He's been following the McMillan 4-5days a week HM plan from 'You, only faster'
I also met one of those 'fast in 80s' club runner blokes, the secret of his success? Running over a 100 miles a week in winter and around 100 during race season. I might have a bit of work to do...
Velloo – Sounds a pretty decent result on a tough course. Excellent stuff from the OH as well. I’m not familiar with that schedule, I’m guessing given its only 4-5 days per week it’s pretty quality heavy?
Chubby – I know the feeling!
TR – Town Moor mara…haha you would have to pay me! Good luck with the 5k tonight. Is it the Marske one?
Second session with the new club last night. Forget how much fun it is to train with a big group of similar pace people and how much easier it is to dig deep. Session was 4x3 mins, 5x2 and 5x1. Three minute blocks all came in at low to mid 5.3x pace. Then low 5.30 pace for 2 minute blocks and 5.20ish for 1 minute blocks. Pleasantly tired at the end.
Great session Mr V, good paces for what was a fairly big chunk of volume. What were the recoveries?
As for tonight, yes it’s the New Marske race. Usually a good quality field and the weather forecast is good, probably a bit of wind on the sea front but not enough for a genuine excuse. There are three of us going up from Thirsk + I know quite a few others who are running so there should be lots of banter, looking forward to it.
As for the Town Moor Marathon, it doesn’t fill me with dread like it does others, I reckon I’ll do it one day.
Good racing velloo, does that mark a turning point in your recent struggles? Excellent work from the other half as well.
All very quiet in here .....
TR - good luck with the 5k tonight. Good to see the injury never progressed into anything too serious. Judging from your comments above I'm assuming tonight's race will come too soon for pb potential then?
WJH - that's what I'm hoping! I'n being realistic with it though, and not just going to replicate what I did training wise in the second half of last year in order to try to get back to the race times I had last year .... down that path lies potential for injury I suspect. So I'm going to aim at building a good base this year and then hitting the more specific training from next year.
Am considering joining my local running club once I'm back to being able to run over 5k in a single block (currently am at the position where I can run 5 or 6k in 3 blocks, but haven't been brave enough to test the injury any further by running that distance straight through!) ... you all seem to get good benefit from being part of a club and you are certainly all far better runners than I am, so I'm hoping I can get benefits from it too
TR – Yeah think I might be coming round to decent shape again. Recoveries were 90 secs for the 3 mins, 60 secs for the 2 mins and 30 secs for the 1 mins. Well you’ll probably be going for the win when you do it so maybe that makes it less daunting!
Andrew – Yeah I’d go for it once your injury can manage the distance. You can always pick and choose sessions if they don’t all fit into your master plan!
Sounds like the new club is a good one Mr V.
Well raced Velloo, getting a prize on a tough course and still feeling fresh afterwards sounds pretty good!
Andrew - would definitely recommend a club. I use mine for company on easy runs, the occasional tempo and motivation when I lose the plot a bit!
8 miles this morning with 4x5:00 (3 min rest) Paces came out better than expected so I'm happy and feeling confident about next week's 5k,