Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
First Timer Tony: #asics262
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
Hi Tony
I think your strategy for Brighton sounds good - I think you're definitely capable of that time goal and setting off a little slower and then seeing how you feel for last few miles is very wise and good practice for marathon strategy too. Not looking for a huge negative split - it's really just about not going off at a mad dash!
Will also be a good opportunity to try the jelly baby/gel strategy. Personally, I think doing the whole marathon with JBs would be tricky - you'd have to carry so many and they get a bit sticky as they warm up. But this is a good testing ground. It's absolutely beautiful here in East Sussex today - hope it's like this on Sunday too
Thank you very much Tony for your kind words. It's great to read my Paris write up again, such nice memories. Can't believe it's been almost a year!!!!
How are you doing? I can see that you are progressing really well and can't wait to see how you and Amy do at Brighton. Good luck!!! And isn't it great to complete your longest runs ever during the training? 19 miles already!!! Which is the longest distance you will do before Paris? 20 miles?
Good to read that you are keeping injury and pain free at the moment. I think the soreness in the calves after the long runs is normal but I am sure Ruth's post-race nutrition plans are helping a lot. They were key for me as I was not paying much attention to post long run meals. I was not hungry for the whole day! And very good to read that cramps are not visiting you
That's very important!!! How did you like the Torq gels? Sam recommended them and I am a big fan. I liked them more than the SIS gels because I think they are gentler on the stomach but as I was reading your posts, they reminded me they are a bit difficult to open! I actually used Torq for my marathon although for the caffeine gels, I went for SIS because I think they give you an extra boost.
I think there are very good chances we bump into each other around 8.15 at Primrose Hill! I walk to work every day and it's around that time when I am in Primrose Hill. I will definitely say hi if I spot you. Isn't it great to feel like spring is coming? Finally!!!!
I am planning to run Madrid on April 26th. That's my first and favourite option. I would love to, because my family and my friends could come to support me. But there is a good chance I have to be in London on Saturday 25th, in which case I will not be able to run Madrid. So my second option is Geneva on May 3rd. I am spending the long weekend there and the race course is beautiful. In any case, if I run Madrid and I have some strength left, I will do Geneva's HM.
I am on week 6 of your plan. I am progressing very well and feeling better although some of the paces are challenging. I did my 15 miler on Saturday and I felt really good, not to mention when I though I still had 3 miles to go and I had actually completed the 15 miles already!!! It's the same feeling as waking up thinking it's 7 am and realising it's 5 am only and you still have two more hours to sleep
))) However, I am struggling a bit with the faster paces. For example, yesterday it was 7 miles with 4 miles between 7.35-7.40 and I was far from it, ran at 8.30ish and quite out of my comfort zone!!! So, I am wondering if I will be able to run a whole marathon below 9 min per mile. I wonder what's Sam's view on it and if there is a way to improve that.
It's rest day today. I will be attending the Flamenco festival at Sadler's Wells!
Hi Barbie1976, thanks for the post and for following our stories. If you see us in Brighton on Sunday I hope you'll say hello. Btw, a half marathon for you now must feel like a gentle jog to the shops
! I had to do a double-take when I saw you were down for a 50 miler (5th April?). I'm just beginning to get my head - not to mention my legs - around the concept of 26.2 miles! I know ultra runners have to run quite slow but does this affect your half marathon pace or do you use the very much shorter distance to work on your speed?
Hi Sam. Thanks for the pacing tip re: small negative split and JBs. Really looking forward to the race although I can't help thinking, like Amy, that 8:00-8:20 min/mi is too fast a pace to hold for 13.1 miles. That said, I thought the same thing about holding 7:30 min/mi for the Capital Runners 10km too yet managed it.
Yes, the weather is glorious at the moment and I'm sort of sad that today's a rest day as it's perfect for Thursday's scheduled 4 miles steady + 1 mile brisk run. According to the BBC weather site, it's turning a bit overcast and showery (afternoons mainly) from tomorrow onwards. The weather for Brighton on Sunday is similar: mild, grey skies and some rain from midday onwards. So, ok rather than brilliant.
Funnily enough, my HM PB (Reading, 2013) was run in the pouring rain. I was soaked before the race had even begun - I wasn't experienced enough then to know the binbag as temporary anorak trick - and I was miserable and shivering in the starting zone. Either I was desperate to have a shower and a cup of tea and therefore finished the race as quickly as I could or the weather doesn't make quite the difference we think it does. Not sure. Anyway, to Reading's credit, there were almost as many spectators and wellwishers as the year before when the weather was great.
Hi Isabel - welcome back! It's good to hear you're following the plan even with its challenges. It sounds as if you're coping with it really well although it got tougher after week 6 when Sam revised my paces after a 10km PB. I remember well the Week 6 run with the 4 miles at 7:30 min/mi as being particularly hard too. I'm not sure what advice to give you but when I did them it was on the Regents Park running track which I know you know. Psychologically, running on a track seems to help me concentrate on my pace more; I use the curves to drop speed a touch and the straights to regain it. We should meet up there one day - pre- or post-Paris marathon - for a speed session! I tend to use the track more than I use Primrose Hill which I run
(continued)
... in once a week on average when I've got some hill work or if I need to integrate some more distance.
The Madrid marathon sounds fantastic - as a running event as well as a chance to catch up with family - and it would be a shame for you to miss it. If I like running marathons - and it's too soon to say although I like marathon training - I think I'd like to visit lots of world cities or revisit ones I already know. On bootcamp day Chris Bramster was telling me how much he enjoyed the Valencia and Seville marathons (two cities I love - hope you're not offended as a madrileña
) and it got me thinking about how much I'd like to see both from a runner's perspective.
Re: longest distance run, it is 20 miles and I've just two 20 miles runs before Paris - the first in over a week's time when we've our last Asics training day (28 Feb) and then the Kingston Breakfast Run on 15 March. But yes, it feels like the period of building up to longer and longer runs is coming to a end very soon and we'll be entering a final phase of marathon preparation (cue dramatic sound effect!).
One last thing, I really meant it when I referred to Isabel's fab description of her race last year - it's got pictures, drama, emotion (pain and failure as well as joy and success). Required reading for newbie marathoners and any of us doing Paris really:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/spring-marathon/my-asics262-journey-to-paris-sub-430-isabel/270571-24.html
Ant, I haven't raced a HM for a couple of years but the last one I did in 2013 I got a 1:42:42 PB and that was when I was training for my first 50 miler so I do think the longer stuff can compliment the shorter stuff and visa versa. After I ran my first marathon in 2011, a friend asked me if I'd be interested in running an ultra with him later that year and my response was 'There's no reason EVER to run more than 26.2 miles!' but after a couple of marathons you do start thinking 'mmm I wonder what beyond 26 miles would be like!'
But I've already decided that 2016 is going to be the year where I properly train for a marathon again instead of it just tagging onto ultra training as an afterthought.
Am keeping a close eye on Sunday's weather - it looks like it could be a windy one for us....the only consolation is that it's a westerly wind so it will be behind us on the home straight
Hi Barbie1976, I think I sort of get that. As I've started to do longer runs - I hesitate to write 'long' given the distances you do
! - I can see how certain mileages seem to shrink. Half marathon distance now feels to me more like 10km felt a year ago.
Thanks for the weather update too. I was planning on using caffeinated shot bloks as a boost on the final stretch but I might just settle for wind power instead!
Barbie1976-50mile race! You must have a strong mind! At least you don't have to carb load for 50miles
Hi Tony.
Suggest we trial a 24 hour carb load . I am going to aim for around 700g of carbohydrate in this period . Don’t stress about it too much just try and see how the volume of food feels. If you need to reduce by mid-afternoon just half the afternoon snack.
Aiming for 700g this Saturday
Breakfast: 80g bowl of cereal & 250ml of milk ~80g (suggest you go for something like cornflakes rather than fruit & fibre or porridge as this will fill you up too much)
2 x toast with good spreads of jam or honey s
300ml of fruit juice ~30g
Snack mid-morning: 500ml fruit smoothie & jam sandwich
Lunch: Large pitta bread with peanut butter (I know you like this) & 200g fruit yoghurt & 500ml squash or cordial (full sugar versions)
mid-afternoon: 3 weetabix and 200ml of milk & medium banana ~70g
Further 500ml of cordial & 4 jaffa cakes ~80g over course of afternoon.
Evening meal: 100g pasta or rice or large potato 80g with small amount of veg and protein and add tomato or low fat sauce.
250ml fruit juice ~25g
4 jaffa cakes ~32g
Monirng of Race
Small glass of water when you get up.
6.00am –50g bowl of porridge with milk and usual hot drink (don’t need nuts) . I would not add berries as you wont have these to hand in Paris but add raisins or small banana if wish or some jam or honey ).
Sip on 500ml of water or diluting juice between 6am and 8am then sip only on a small of water for last hour or wet mouth.
7.30am- small pitta bread & jam or 1 slice of bread and jam or ½ bagel - reduce this if need.
During race
Between 30-40mins 5 jelly babies
70mins – 23 caffeinated shot blocs
Usually you would not need this much sugar in a HM but this is a practise for Paris.
What do you think? manageable or not?
Hi Ruth,
Thanks for the carb loading plan for the weekend. I'll certainly give it a go although for parts of it I was thinking 'blimey, will I really be able to get all that down?'
Breakfast: doable
Mid-morning snack: will be out and about so is there a carryable alternative to the jam sandwich (e.g. an energy bar of some sort)?
Lunch: doable but half a litre of squash is a lot? Is the idea to get both sugar and fluids in the system? If more former, could it be via smaller amounts of fluid? Could it be via a gel or a SB and small amounts of water?
Mid-afternoon snack: crikey! Ok, will try (3 weetabix + small banana = gulp)
Afternoon fluids: may struggle with this (see lunch questions).
Evening meal: doable
Jaffa cakes: definitely doable!
Re: pasta dishes, a standby I like to make involves artichokes, grated lemon rind, some lemon juice and olive oil, cropped parsley and wholewheat spaghetti. Would this be ok or is there not enough veg and protein?
https://www.ocado.com/webshop/product/Chargrilled-Artichokes-Waitrose/16759011
https://www.ocado.com/webshop/product/Wholewheat-Spaghetti-Waitrose-Love-Life/56606011?from=search&tags¶m=wholewheat+spagetti&parentContainer=SEARCHwholewheat+spag_SHELFVIEW
Phew! that's it - thanks again Ruth and sorry to be such a fussy carb loader!
Week 9/Thursday
Wednesday was a rest day although I was really dying for a little run. I got my run today instead though. It was just 5 miles - which feels like no distance at all now - composed of 4 miles steady (8:10-8:40) and 1 mile brisk (7:30-7:50). Here's how the mile splits went:
8:12 - 7:52 - 8:17 - 7:22 - 8:20
I dithered a bit about when to do the brisk mile: in the middle of the run or at the end and finish strong? I thought I'd do the latter but then remembered I'd get caught in people traffic on the route home so switched it to mile 4. My paces were ok except for mile 2 which was a bit fast because I ran it on a favourite stretch of Bushy Park near the cricket pitch which I use when I want to go fast. Anyway, that's it - 'twas short and sweet and I've got to wait until Saturday until I can run again.
Hi Ant, I quite agree about the bit round the cricket pitch - it's always my fastest bit on the Bushy parkrun (or did you mean a different cricket pitch?). I ran round there today but the weather was awful so not as enjoyable as it could have been.
Could luck on Sunday. I am going to try a 20 miler - furthest I have ever run!
Thanks Sally and yes, it's the same cricket pitch you pass on the Bushy parkrun (not far from the Church Grove/Hampton Wick gate). I don't know what it is about that stretch of Bushy Park that brings out the speed? I think Fairyclogs runs it fast too.
Good luck too for your 20-miler - you'll be one mile ahead of me when it comes to running distance. I don't have a 20 miler down until next week. Will you post the route you take? I've been conservative on my long runs sticking to places I know (Richmond, Bushy and Home Parks as well as the river) in order to concentrate on my pace (not that it's worked!) so it would be interesting to see the route you take to make up the 20 miles.
Hi Ant, I will try but am not very good at the technical stuff. If I can't post the route, I will explain it in a written post (if you see what I mean!). I tend to stick to Bushy and Richmond Park as I am paranoid at staying on soft surfaces with my dodgy old knees!
Ant McNeill look at all those Jaffas you are allowed....you will be a full moon, half moon, total eclipse expert by the end of Saturday!!! Think our evening meal and supper look similar so we can eat together again
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWCwnms18CM
Sally Boulton 2 wrote (see)
Hi Sally, no worries if you can't share a map as a description would work too. I was just curious as you mentioned the run along the Thames from, I think, Teddington Lock towards Richmond, as being particularly nice.
If you use a Garmin watch and their online ConnectGarmin service, you can share the technical details of your run too. Here's Sunday's 19-mile run which was an 'easy-on-the knees' one through Home and Bushy parks:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/697836895
Week 9/Friday
No run today but a quick post/update on nutrition mainly for Ruth.
I visited the 50p weighing machine in Boots today. Rather depressingly, it told me I'm still 81kg which is actually a touch heavier than the Asics body analyser machine's result on store day in December (80.9kg).
Groan, groan - what's occurring here? I do have the feeling that while cutting down on some bad stuff - biscuits, large glasses of wine - I'm eating too many calories than I should of the healthy stuff (peanut butter pittas, bowls of cereal). Or maybe I've developed loads of new muscles or extra big-bones? Whatever it is, it's annoying. Grrr.
Strangely, Sarah, my wife, said she thought I'd lost my 'man boobs' and, when giving her a hello kiss last night, said she thought I'd lost weight as she could feel my face was leaner. Anyway, the stats aren't backing it up.
I'm wondering - and this is to Ruth really - whether we should rethink nutrition/diet as we move into the lower mileage weeks of the taper and rethink how I might shed just a couple of kilos.
I was thinking about the carb consumption this weekend - see below for recent shopping - and I'm getting worried that I'm actually going to end up heavier by marathon day than I was in December. Is there a risk in carb loading - and carb loading training - that what I might gain in pace will be negated by the gain in weight (or failure to drop weight sufficiently)? I'm not sure I've explained this well but it seems there are 2 options here: 1) filling you body with calorific stuff that will aid performance and 2) not filling it so much leading to lower weight that will also aid performance?
Sorry for the moan. Got a free pass to the local gym where I'm going to do some stretching and strengthening exercises using bossu balls (?) and resistance bands.
Hi Tony,
Go with the carb load and overall plan for this weekend and try and not think about the negatives. We would be cutting back as taper sets in anyway. The weight you are gaining whilst carb loading will also be a lot of water as when you store carbs (as glycogen) you also have to store a couple of grams of water with each carb gram so people can feel fuller but this weight should not be negative for performance. Using different weighing machines is never going to give you accurate feedback. Your body composition will have altered so I think you should go weight yourself on one more set of scales in the next few days and see if still around the 81kg mark but we can focus on some weight loss over the next 7 weeks - we can aim for up to 1.5-2 kg between now and Paris - this won't affect energy levels if we are smart about where we cut calories. If you can write out what a typical days eating is during the week and then what this looks like at weekend I think it would be good for others to see this so I reason why I am making the changes I suggest. Do you think you are leaner- clothing usually can be helpful with this?
Good luck this weekend - enjoy some full moon & half moon fun!
All the best for Brighton Tony.
No fighting with Amy over the Jaffa cakes.
Good luck today in Brighton Tony!!! Hope you have a storming race, I'm sure you will... Fingers crossed the weather is kind!
WARNING WARNING
SOUND THE PB KLAXON
So pleased for you Tony, completely deserved and looking fresh as a daisy at the end. Piece of (Jaffa)cake!
Thanks Brb, - it was a great race and the weather was pretty much perfect. More race details to follow ...
Haha
- I have to say Merilyn that after a Saturday of carb loading, I might not be able to look a jaffa cake in the eye again!
Hey Amy - it could catch on. I certainly think we all ran a grrrreeeeat race!
(sorry).
Week 9/Saturday and Sunday
An action-packed weekend as we had la Pocket Rocket down in readiness for Sunday's Brighton Half Marathon. Here's the story ...
Saturday
Met Amy in London and we did 5.04 miles (not the 3 we should have) which included 3 x 100m strides (during the faster mile underlined). Here are the stats:
8:58 - 8:31 - 8:01 - 8:29 - 9:39
Sunday
The Brighton Half Marathon was an important opportunity to see how far we'd progressed as runners. I wanted - and I think needed - to show progress over a longer distance and demonstrate a strong sub-1:50 time. My previous PB was 1:48:35 at the Reading HM in 2013 but haven't achieved anything like that time since. The idea for Brighton was to get a new PB so I was aiming for a finish around 1:45-1:48. This meant maintaining a pace between 8:00-8:20 over the 13.1 miles. My plan was to start at the slower end of the pace band for the first 6-7 miles and then up the speed for the last half.
Ok, so how did it pan out? Well, I'll start by saying that I didn't stick to my plan entirely. I felt strong at the start of the race and very comfortable at holding a pace that was just below 8:00 min/mi for the first 10 miles of the race. What this meant though was that I didn't have quite as much left in my tank as I might have for the last 3 miles which I ran a little but not much faster (maybe 10-15 seconds).
In short then, I ran at a pretty consistent pace with a modest negative split. This maybe points the way to a pace strategy for Paris? Here are the stats:
Finish time: 1:43:41 (almost 5 mins faster than Reading 2013 PB).
7:57 - 7:57 - 8:01 - 7:52 - 8:06
8:01 - 7:47 - 7:59 - 8:03 - 8:03
7:44 - 7:49 - 7:47
Nutritionally, I did my best with the carb loading but struggled with the volume of fluid and additional bowls of cereal and toast and jam. I'll list what I ate on Saturday in a later post but here's what I had before and during the race:
Other observations. I felt really fresh afterwards - 21km now really does feel like 10km. Psychologically perhaps more than physiologically I need to feel lean (not bloated) to run well. I got my hair cut the day before to give me that mean sub-Roy Keane look - I think it helped too!
Feeling fit, strong and confident - come on Week 10 I'm ready for ya!
This is great Tony. A modest NS was just what we were after and you were never that far off your average mile pace, so although you sped up a little towards the end it wasn't because you'd held back too much in the earlier stages. I think you've got it just right. A modest NS at Paris would be brilliant too - it's a little harder to achieve in a marathon perhaps, but I'd still aim for it, because it prevents you going off too fast.
I'll have a quick look at week 10 and let you know if any adjustments. Interesting about the weight loss thing...(or lack thereof
) but I do agree with Ruth that you have to be using the same scale to get an accurate measure of progress - and clothes are probably a better guide...
Well done again! Have a well-earned lazy afternoon!
Well done Tiger Tony, grrrreat race. You certainly earned your stripes. Impressed with your pacing too for a well deserved PB. High Five.
I was less consistent with mile splits gradually getting slower and slower. It didn't help having to run through slippery mud in the woods around mile 12. It was a case of dig in and hold on. I think my PB days are over but happy with 1:38:26 and 1st VW55. Thank God for Age Grading!!!
Awesome run from Amy too. She will be closer to 3:30 than 4:00 in Paris at this rate.
Enjoy the rest of the day, basking in your Glory. xx