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Moraghan Training - Stevie G
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Not me Simon. I'm off up to the Lakes that Friday :-)
I'm also now quite pleased to discover that my annoyance at leaving Braithwaite the day before the Coledale Horseshoe race starts from there (Lady's record held by someone in all the papers today!) is slightly tempered by finding out there is a race an hours drive away on the Sunday I'm there, and a short but brutal evening race starting just up the road on the Wednesday....
Is that F3 race at Dorney SG? There's a place that catches the wind!
Matt, sounds a good step forward with your new mentor.
Simon, I'm not up for LFOTM in March. I like to do a few in a row and I'm busy April so will try May and June.
Just tried some Brooks Hyperion on. Look incredible. And so light you have to look at your feet to tell you have shoes on!
Will get a pair to finally replace this 900mile pair of Adios 2, discontinued back about 4 years ago (!)
Got too confused trying to work out what Adios/Boston/2/3/Boost etc etc actually were.
ps Bus, says Eton, so not sure it's Dorney Lake. Will look later. Probably shouldn't look too closely, as £25+ is insane for 5k/10k for that level of race
It was the last time i did it!!
Something else on the subject. Vast mileages made some very good runners. It also wiped out many more. It's horses for courses.
I should add that while all and sundry get carried away with training plans and useful examples of success, they should realise that the source of such success was based on a super athlete of less than thirty years of age.
Most of us here, are thirty plus or even 40 or 50 years plus. That training simply won't apply.
Older runners have to train smart. It's about recovery. Younger runners can throw the kitchen sink at a session and improve. Older runners try the same session and end up being hit with a lump of porcelain with Armitage Shanks written on it.
🙂
Brief case studies of three of our club marathon runners; 2:16, 2:17 and 2:20 to illustrate that there are different ways to achieve similar results:
2:16 ran over a 100 miles every week year after year, all very slow. Raced most weeks which was the speed session.
2:20 ran 50 to 60 miles a week, all faster than 6 minute miling, with a weekly 10.5 miles in under 55 minutes and a long run of 18 to 20 miles at sub 6. No speed sessions and only raced three or four times a year. Capable of much better time than the other two but blew up in a marathon in Holland when he ran 65:30 for the first half in 90 degrees. Finished 3rd in 2:28 but didn't Rarely ran again.
2:17 ran 60 to 70 miles a week. One long run and two to three track/rep sessions. High quality steeplechaser.
All had similar ten mile PBs between 8 and 49 minutes!
I'm not sure which of those first 2 would break most of us lot down quicker...
100 miles slow, and load of racing, or 50-60miles all very fast
That latter mileage feels comfy these days, but clearly not at that pace!
And allowing for a couple of hours a day not wanting to converse with anyone, bar on here
Brooks Hyperion's on way, after an incredible 851.75 miles in the absolutely battered Adios 2!
Think i'll try and protect these a bit more by doing all warm ups to sessions in clogs, then switching. I've heard 500 tops will be the limit in these!
Bus, I've read a few comments on fb where there's been sympathy for Lauren Jeska aka Larry Jeska ;-) Not only did he/she cheat others out of British championship medals, international vests etc, she then drove 100 miles with two knives and tried to drive them through an old blokes head. What. The. Fuck.
poor lass eh? :-/
Aley, of course...the Adios 2 only get a wheeling for sessions or races. It's 2 pairs of Wave Riders for all the other runs.
ML, I've seen a few people say that, but I didn't find them too narrow at all. Maybe because the Adios were fairly tight boxed. These don't have that mesh stuff, so hopefully I won't toe through them!
Hopefully the loss in weight can undo the gain in weight from the heavy Datchet vest!
No worries Ric; you sounded certain, so I thought you'd misunderstood, rather than guessed, so figured I'd offer some insight into how it actually worked in case somebody thought you were right. It's an easy mistake - one of the biggest misconceptions about Lydiard is that it's long slow distance.
Ric/alehouse - I agree with the high mileage/horses for courses assertion, though I do think more would thrive off of it if they remembered two things: 1) those high mileage schedules were built up to over time - Barry (Magee) was training under Lydiard for 9 years before he won his Olympic Marathon bronze, and 2) the training is only one part of it (too many people, and I've done this in the past, do the running, but don't consider the recovery).
I set my marathon pb doing less mileage than when I had trained under Barry, but still pretty high. I've gone back to be trained by Barry now, but my circumstances are different so I will have more recovery time, so will hopefully be better able to absorb the higher mileage (once I sort out my anaemia).
Anyway - I'm trying to combine the best of a high-mileage, slow-intensity and low-mileage high-intensity training regime by doing low-mileage, low intensity :-)
TT, you're a brave man to correct Ric and live to tell the tale
I remember when some other international geezer, McFarlane (?) turned up one year and said he "knew" no one was going to compete with him after the first field!
So 1/4 mile into a half marathon he "knew" no one was going to compete with him!
I remember thinking that incredible, but I found similar, albeit miles down the quality stakes at the Ealing mile the other week. Knew within about 100metres the same thing.
lol SG. I've got Lydiard experience that most don't through Barry, and am aware there are a lot of misconceptions, so like to help out ;-) I was in a similar situation (a very distant 2nd) at Basingstoke a few years back, but at least got a decent few quid for that one. I've been on the other end myself a few times - New Forest full and half spring to mind (different years obviously). Hit the front about 2-2.5m in on both and knew that that was it done and dusted. A strange feeling.
From my very limited experience of front running, and probably also due to them being more on the bootleg side of the racing experience, I remember the sheer stress of having to pay huge attention to that thing we all take for granted...namely what direction to keep running in!
From marshals standing at cross roads not offering a direction, to those sat behind hedges that you don't see until you've flown past, it's a stressful business.
At least I shared a thread chuckle at one of the parkruns in the summer, basically making my own course up, and "sorting it" with the organiser geezer to still keep the "win" :-) :-)
Cheers for the responses re: LFOTM, thought there were more going, quick pint after? day off, off to Soton v Bmth the day after and the missus and sprog staying at her mums that night..what could possibly go wrong
Did 10 x 30 secs along Regents Canal Tues night - it was typical Camden that someone was smoking pot on my little section. I was floating along etc etc..felt ok actually. Track torture at Luton tonight...
Training consistency? Basically the backbone of good form I think. Stick 6 months injury free training together and you're laughing.
Talking of front running - the only LFOTM that I won was when the leader went wrong. It was on the way back when he decided to run up to the road instead of keeping left by the lake and going under the road. Cheers fella!
I was being lazy and made a flip comment based on the flimsiest of information.
Usually I check the facts prior to some statement. However in this case I was feeling a bit tired.
What the hell.
It's only a forum, not a High Court trial.
As for training. Starting at 4:00am! I did 30 minutes on the indoor bike, then six miles running on the road, starting at 9:00 mile pace and finishing with bursts of sub 5:30, then another 30 minutes on the bike.
Had a few jobs today so had half an idea I might do more training after. Nah! Tomorrow will have to do.
🙂
Just joshing old son.
And i'm afraid any getting up before I do is officially mad.
Are you joining the thread 5k party at the LFOTM race?
Simon, myself and Aley involved so far.
I think my non thread pal is coming too, although not to race. I dare say his involvement either way might affect any prolonged post race festivities, but we'll see if he's definitely on board first!
6&4 today, standard garb.
New racers arrived. So light! Look pure scenes.
Best get a couple of sessions in them before breaking the "don't race in new shoes" rule!
Although I did see there's both a half marathon round Dorney lake Saturday, as well as 5k/10k/15k/20k on Sunday, same venue.
Problem is the half would be £40 (!), and even the 5k is £25! And although it's fairly likely i'd weasel into the top 3 in at leas the 5k-20k races (all starting together!) to get some of the money back, it's a rubbish starting time too. 12.30!
12.30, loads of dosh, appalling standard.
Sort of ruins something that had great potential.
Btw, I'm sure you know, that setup at Dorney is F3 and their rep isn't great!
SC - couldn't agree more. The last time I managed anything near 6 months of consistency I set my pb.
Ric 4am!
Huge distance relays, involving long legs, with a relatively small amount of teams
That certainly is the stuff of nightmares!
I'm sure this southerns is at least safe for that sort of thing. Sounds similar to the Runnymede one. All start and finish at same point, 2 different routes, and presumably obviously laid out. Helped by there being 50 odd teams, so bound to always be someone fairly in sight, or keeping you honest from behind
I think Ric had the worst relay experience though. A teammate completely stitching him up by doing a time nothing like what they'd predicted! Norfolk? Chucking his routine out. I'll have work a sensible eating plan out, as it's a 90min drive, starts 12 and goes to 4, and i'm probably up 1.20-1.30 ish...
The other relay i'd done, the River relay needed a bit more concentration, especially as I tended to pick the baton up with at least a 2-3min head start. In hindsight, it couldn't really have been an easier route, but there were a couple of bits you could ruck up, not to mention an exceptionally dangerous road to choose to cross on the risk, or wait for some geezer to do the lights and hope they didn't take 2mins to change!
F3 at least have their stuff PO10 now, that's one small step In the right direction
16 x 400 last night, with 65-70 secs recovery. First 73, then a mixture of 68's and 69's with a 66 to finish. Bit breezy round top bend, but not too bad.
New Hyperions in my possession, i tried them out. I',m going to save them just for the actual tempo/rep miles now, doing warmup 3miles in the clogs, try and save them a bit!
Fancied a pyramid job, 5k worth, 200-400-600-800-1000-800-600-400-200
1min recoveries around the 200-400s, 90secs around the rest.
34
1.13
1.54
2.35
3.14
2.36
1.54
1.12
33
Pretty much what we were after, 1.18 lapping for 800s/1000, and a notch quicker for each of the lower tiers.
Shoes after an initial short period of "does the big toe feel tight", felt amazing, definitely the lightest shoe i've ever used, 6ounces i think i read?
Enjoyable outing.
Our club champs 5k/10k is at one of their events so it was a bit of conflict, well until I spent three months on the sidelines.
I suppose i've spent enough time not racing for there to not really be any desperate need to force races! Do have this relay, and the 5k in the next 2 weeks. See how they go, and spring/summer should yield tonnes of opportunities to rack some stuff up
I noticed Watford have a mile race at their first meet in May. I dare say we could get a gang of us there, with the advantage that it'd be something like 7.30ish, rather than the awful 9.30-10pm start of the 3ks!
Nice pyramid SG - interesting to compare your paces to mine from last week!
Simon - blimey!
Where can I find info on the Watford races SG?
F3 means "f##k you 3 ways"
Okey dokey....