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Over 60's training (Part 2)
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WP-well done for toughing it out on the treadmill.
Mick-good couple of days running.Hope the hamstring is okay.
Dave-definitely find it harder to keep motivated these days.Think what keeps me going is there is about 8vet sixties at my club who are quick,so i think that helps maybe.
Been busy with DIY today and yesterday so not had much time to sit down really.Sundays run was 18miles in 8:35 pace which was way to fast really but i felt quite good so pushed it.Track session tonight is 12x400 which i think i will find hard.
Ray - that 18 @ 8:35 sounds very impressive and better than marathon pace? That performance doesn't sound like that of someone who struggles for motivation! (Where d you rank in the VM60s in your club? Are you the grande fromage?
PS when you've finished your DIY could you pop down to my place please?
Will try to do around 7 miles today.
Got through the 12x400 last night so a bit achey this morning,but will do a slow six later.
3% is high. I have seen 1.5% as the recommended incline, it is supposed to make the effort equivalent to running outside.
I always run with some incline usually 1%, but I don't think it matches outside at all.
I ran an easy 6k yesterday but still troubled by my hamstring. It is not bad just a moan but it limits my gait.
My race is on Saturday so I will take today off, well I will be doing some DIY.
The wooden stairs from my deck are rotten so I have to rip it out and build a new one. It is only two steps so not a big deal.
I am using some 2' x 2.5' concrete paving stones as a base, hopefully to keep the damp out of the wood. I recovered these stones from a previous project some 15 years ago. I can recall carrying them without too much difficulty.
I can hardly lift them now, despite all my time at the gym. The weight is not so much of a problem as the difficulty in maneuvering.
Mick
Mick - good luck in your race. Category win on the cards? Is it one of the huge events or a small local one? As for slab lifting issue, I think there's a difference between 'gym strength' and lifting non-standard weights ('work strength'). I always remember when I moved house I was concerned that the removals guys might struggle moving some of my weights up and down stairs and then watched as they did it without breaking sweat. (When I was a student and about 125 lbs dripping wet, I worked in removals and it nearly killed me.)
My 7 miler yesterday was miserable; no pleasure at all. I did manage a few hills. Today I'll do a run with my training partner which will be more fun although I know I'll be holding him back.
I stayed over for a couple of extra days darn sooth - where the weather deteriorated quite spectacularly after a glorious couple of days.
John
well done on your HM.
The conversion from short to long distance is often not an easy one and times from shorter distance do not always readily translate into long distance equivalents - as first of all they assume that the requisite training has been done, but also that the physiological changes that may be necessary have also occurred.
Take me as an example of one. I used to be a sprinter with earlier sporting career, mediocre as it was, based upon my flat out speed, and an ability to reproduce that at frequent intervals. That ability spoke of a preponderance of fast twitch muscles (Type 2) which could work anaerobically but with some underlying recuperative powers, as there are two types of fast twitch muscles -2b known as FG (fast glycolytic) and 2a known as FOG (fast oxidative glycolytic) During training for longer distance running those fast twitch type 2b muscles gradually transition themselves to fast twitch with slow twitch properties. So basically more slow twitch (Type 1) endurance muscles which improves endurance performance.
As most of your training has been of the short and furious (
This is, despite the website from whence it came, actually a quite good paper on muscle types and how they function
https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson33.htm
Ray
you are doing very well indeed. Now deep into marathon training territory :-). Those times for long runs look remarkably similar to those I was running 4-5 years ago when I was a youngster!!
Mick
you always seem to be replacing timber on your house. Is it because it is so cheap over there that you don't bother with treated timber for rot?
Good luck in your race - hope the hammie holds up!
Weshpoppy
getting drowned is not a good training plan:-) . Don't take a wrong turn on Sunday or you may well be swimming!! Hope it goes well for you - the weather forecast doesn't look too bad for a HM
I had some news last night. You may recall I had been fighting a proposal to build 170 houses on the fields opposite my house which is a part of a SLA (special landscape area). The planning inspector from the public inquiry announced that the appeal from the developers against planning refusal was dismissed- and in unambiguous terms as well. Good news indeed!!!
To celebrate I went out this morning to run the footpaths that border those fields and found I could hardly move!! I pushed on and completed a fairly miserable 6 miles in 59 minutes of seeming hard effort as the thyroid seems to be playing up again and not responding to the drug dosage - damn!!!
John Normally I have a two week taper cutting back to around 48 miles first week then 32 miles second week.This time just a 1 week taper to make sure legs are fresh around 38 miles this week.
It sounds like you ran really hard at the HM and need this week as an easy week? Oh no on miserable run I hope tomorrow's run perks you up but maybe you are over tired would it not be best to have a cutback week so you are fully fight next week?
TS:Thanks will try to avoid the Lake:-) Weather looks pretty good for Sunday 1pm start:-0
Great news on your fight over Green land we have to be so vigilant or those pesky developers will build on it all!!
Oh poo I had hoped you would be on top on the meds I guess it takes longer to kick in?
6.25 miles for me it felt the last 2 miles uphill were a slog never mind job done just 2@4 milers before race:-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
WP - good soggy miles there - was the 6.25 less damp?
Ray - excellent pacy 18 - I'm envious of the "feeling good" - and impressive work on the track . . .
TS - good news indeed ! shame your celebratory run not so good . . . .
Mick - I hope the hamstring doesn't inhibit your race too much . .
John - forgive me, but your description of your 7 miler as "miserable" made me chuckle - we've all had them !
back to business today, with 14 miles on the trail in the company of my friend and my daughter. hamstring tightening last couple of miles . . . .
Dave
year to date total now 1001 (better late than never)
Asics Cumulus now have 1009 on the clock - maybe retire them now, although they don't feel too bad . . .
I admire your parsimony in shoes - mine are only at 945 miles
They are Adidas Supernova Glide Boost 2 and the uppers are as good as new -soles just show some wear on the mid foot section so they will do a while longer.
Your hamstring sounds like it has some scar tissue which starts to restrict blood flow as the muscle requires greater resources as it tires. A bit of physio elbow on the offending area may sort it out - ouch, ouch!! - otherwise it remains a potential point of future weakness.
Excellent mileage for the year to date despite some recent cut back weeks due to injury.
Welshpoppy
It may just been the after effects of a 350 mile drive home but, yes, it was disappointing. However I still managed to crawl round or in John's words - miserably go round - 6 miles. I think it was the fact that it was such a pleasant autumn morning that kept me going - just as well I went then otherwise it would have been one of your very wet runs and I may have cut it short as it is now nissing down!!
My race is small 200-300 runners and there is not a 70+ AG so I am in with the 60+. Not much of a chance of getting in the top 3.
TS
I have a large deck out back and a large front porch both made of wood and over 20 years old. The deck was made of cedar and stained which is good for 20 + years. The front was pine and painted but is more sheltered than the deck.
I did a major reno on the deck a couple of years ago and used cedar again. The price of cedar is now double that of treated pine so the repair I did yesterday was with treated pine which I then stained.
The front porch has started to rot at the base of the large columns. I pieced out using cedar, primed and painted a couple of years ago but I have another one to do.
I now have a couple of rails and spindles that have started to rot and I will replace them with whatever I can get that matches.
The price of wood has gone up considerable but still nowhere near the UK cost. Yesterday's bill was about 40 pounds which included 4 x 8' steps and 2 premade runners with 4 steps each.
So a long winded way of saying no.
I ran an easy 6k today and was shocked at how stiff I was from my DIY. I seriously considered that I would have to drop out of my race even though my hamstring felt ok. I spent an hour in the gym stretching and rolling and lo and behold everything started to free up. I will take tomorrow off with NO DIY and should be good to go but with very low expectations.
A genuine park run has come to Ottawa(Kanata)
http://www.parkrun.ca/
The first race is on the 16th, 2 days before my 71st birthday so of course I will do it. It is two laps around a large beaver pond so great running. Only problem is a short but very very steep hill.
Mick
TS - we've now got 'miserable' weather too! A 350 mile drive sounds awful. Thanks for the fast twitch/slow twitch briefing. I sort of know a tiny bit on this but I didn't know you could transform/transition between the two. I'll check out the link - for which many thanks.
Dave - is 1000 mile by this time of year less than you'd usually do? When would you expect to clock 1000 (please don't say January 21st)? You are lucky to have a daughter who runs with you. Neither of my sons has ever really got into running but if I can keep going long enough there's always a chance that my grandchildren might.
WP - thanks for the taper advice. You certainly don't appear to put your feet up in at taper time! The HM at the weekend did drain my tank a bit but I actually managed a 'double' yesterday - 4 mile in the morning and another 4 in the evening. This is, I think, the only time I've ever done this and reading up on it (a bit) it sounds like an effective way of packing in some extra miles. Has anyone got any experience/views on this? It's a bit counter-intuitive. Best of luck on Sunday - look forward to reading your race report.
Should be heading a little bit 'north' of my 35 mile week target this week. Am working Saturday so that becomes a rest day; then Sunday will try a solo 15 miler.....................
Dave: The 6.25 was dry-yay.Great mileage to date I must check my log I think Iam over 1,000 miles but only just.Great mileage on shoes!!
TS: 350 mile drive no wonder you run was not as good as you would have liked!!
Mick: Great news on parkrun in Canada
John: I ran doubles in previous running life and also begining of this year for 2 months and as it happens my second run was 4 miles it ramped my mileage up and fitness levels I found it easier in cooler months would never run them in Summer time.What I did find was my second run was always my fastest run.
Thanks I think it will be a hard run as times are down on last year which is to be expected.
4 miles this morning and down around 2 minutes on last years 4 miler before race so as I thought never mind a nice weekend away with a race attached:-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression
yes, would ideally like to be at the 1,000 mark by end of June. on 26th Jan this year, which marked 31 years of recorded running, my odometer stood at 60,869 miles, so average of 1963.5 per year - ( my marathons were more usually Spring ones, so I generally expected to have more mileage in the first half of a year) . I see that in 2014, I managed 2212, 2015 (my last year of "good" running) was 2265, but last year dropped to 1846. Quite enjoyed dipping into my records - don't do this too often, but a query such as yours can soon have me boring the pants off anyone on a running forum, so be warned
and yes, it is a pleasure to run with my daughter - she and my son both participated in school athletics - track, XC, and have continued into adulthood . . . .
Dave
Dave - your account of being 'boring' made me smile. You are totally right - we have to be very careful when talking to non-runners (many of whom start form the assumption that we are mad anyway). I've noticed a time - usually within 2 minutes of me starting - that eyes tend to glaze over. Come to think of it, and looking at your mileage, I think they have a point!
Just over 4 miles yesterday which with a little (honestly) bit of rounding up gives me my first 40 mile week for god knows how many years. Today I face hundreds of potential students (and their parents) for a 2018/19 start at university. I reckon in terms of a 'running equivalent' and the knackered factor this is worth about 15 miles uphill. I've been doing this sort of thing since 1978 and that's a long time to be telling the same jokes (both of them).
Congrats on the 40 mile week, it has been a while for me. I was in the mid 30s training for the half in my early 60s.
My Park Run is only 15 mins from where I live so very handy.
I had to laugh at your repeating jokes with all the students. I know I could not handle being over exposed to all those young people.
Dave,
Impressive mileage, and yes it takes another nerdy runner to enjoy all those numbers. I definitely qualify. My wife and kids sometimes come into my home office to see what I am up to and when they ask what are you doing, I have to ask them if they really want to know. They then run away.
Race day for me today. The course was sprinkled with a few ups and downs and lots of turns so not fast. The weather was a bit windy and much cooler so definitely not an excuse.
My expectations were low as I have not trained and have been troubled with a tight hamstring. I am pleased to report my hamstring and knee were great, no issues at all.
The results have not been published yet and we had to leave right away so I do not have my official placing and time.
There were about 150 runners and I started in the middle and as always looked for the old guys. I spotted a couple but they did not look too competitive and started further back.
I had a friend running who is in his mid 60s and would run 21 min something so no hope staying with him. So no competition to chase.
I decided not to look at my garmin and just run a comfortably hard race and see what happened.
I was well warmed up and started off feeling good. I moved up the field surprising fast and settled well up the pack so obviously a slow field.
The hills were tough but I held my position.
I battled with a young guy, 40s, and managed to stay in front of him for most of the race only to have him come by in the last 50m. My legs don't do sprints anymore.
I crossed the line in 27:13, having run a very controlled race and could clearly have run faster. My laps were very consistent despite the hills. I kept them under 9 min miles so I am happy with that.
I think I came second in the over 60s so again happy with that.
Here is the detail, the HR data is screwed up for some reason, I was working harder than that. My cadence is a bit low, another indicator that I could have worked harder.
This bodes well for getting back to some more intense training.
Mick
15 miles for me today in 2.17.09. I ran reasonably even 5 miles splits but faded a little. Perfect conditions - flat and almost windless. I felt quite sprightly at the end and felt like I picked up the pace in the last mile or so. Not bad on the back of a heavy week's training.
John - excellent 15 - good sign to feel sprightly at the end ; good confidence factor
as I type, just had text from my mate (who will be 64 in December) bagged 1:31:54 at Vale of York half marathon . . . .
rest day yesterday - will head out later for 5 or 6 to end the week
Dave
John-well done on the 15 miler and recycled jokes.Always good to feel you could have had more in the tank at the end.Good result for Brighton and by all accounts thoroughly deserved.
Dave-great time by your friend,i just love it when vet 60s run fast,did he win his category?
Another 20 mile run today along the towpath heading south into london.We started at the Lea Valley Athletics Centre as the river lea is just under a mile away.The run basically goes past Edmonton,Tottenham,Hackney,along past the Olympic stadium to Lime house basin which is ten miles and return back.The highlight of the run for me is to show my club mates my old second re-modern school in Tottenham.Everytime i see it the could have should have thought goes through my head.Well not to dwell on the past,my run average today was 8:30 pace felt good again today for some strange reason.
TS - good news on seeing the back of those would-be developers.
It'll be a while before I'm running again, but I'll keep dropping in on this thread. Apparently I have "aggravated" or "irritated" my achilles. I've been given Good Advce, and am following it, and am supposed to refer myself to the physio department at my local hospital, but that will have to wait as I'm away for a week next week. I can walk, slowly and with a limp, but running is completely out of the question.
well done - a good return to racing and your AWHR was under control for the full distance so, as you say ,you probably had a bit in reserve.
I look out on my extension being built and quail at the sight of all the wood in the roof!!
Columba
oh no - that is not good news. Achilles are nasty things to treat as the blood supply is so limited that any inflammation can take ages to fully clear up. Have you tried friction massage on it just to ease it along? Grip both sides of the achilles with the knuckles of first and second fingers and rub hard!!! Alternatively a vibro massager will do the trick.
Garmin tracks shoe mileage too.
Ray
excellent preparation run there - 20 miles is optimum marathon mileage distance - and at a good pace too.
Dave
you mean folk get bored when you talk about running
John
I have lever arch files filled with stuff I have picked up over the years. I can endlessly bore on running related matters - and that's before I get onto my own running - or lack of it just now.
Well done on the 15 miles - now that is a big step up for you. feeling tired is okay
I went out this morning in a break between heavy downpour sand had another thoroughly miserable run. It was so bad I even walked bits of it. The only "highlight" was as I came back through the park where they were setting up for the junior parkrun. A group of young Mum type volunteer marshalls were just setting off to take up station and one, seeing me, said "you are too late for the start of the junior parkrun" to which I replied "yes - about 65 years too late!!"
The howls of laughter helped me a bit up Hipps Hill - but only a bit.
I appear to be almost back to where I was some weeks ago
Slightly better news on the footie front as the Toon appear to have won at Swansea and so have leaped up the table as a result
TS - great line about the Junior Parkrun. And they say that Yorkshire folk don't have a sense of humour. (Well I say it anyway but I'll stop saying it now.) Sounds like you are in a bad patch running-wise. But be inspired by The Magpies (as I will be by The Seagulls) and you will soar to new heights. And steal eggs.
Ray - you are 'on fire'. Surely you must be near taper time soon? Your run down memory lane made me reflect that I too was a graduate of the Secondary Modern school system. I think I was lucky in that virtually all of my class seem to have turned out to be serial entrepreneurs, captains of industry and professors of computing. And only a very few of them have served at Her Majesty's Pleasure.
Columba - good to hear from you. Sorry to hear of the ongoing injuries.
Now here's a question from a 62 year old rookie. How can you (or more specifically I) sustain a heavy weekly mileage PLUS a long run? It seems to me that to cope with the long run (next stop 18 miles) you need to lighten the weekly load - almost to taper for it - and maybe drop the down to 3 other runs? But all the schedules seem to suggest that you should still hammer your way through all the other runs (as Ray seems to - and then bang out remarkably good long runs too). I just find it a bit hard-core and it worries me that the long weekly run is just too hard on the body when tackled after an already hard week.
Dave
outstanding times fora HM. In the Brass Monkey HM in York I was once 6th over 60 with a time of 1:31!!!
John
don't tell anyone - I am not a Yorkie, but an exiled Geordie who moved doon sooth into cotton pickin' country to scoop up their gold - most of it turned into fool's gold but that is by the by!!
hence the affinity to the Toon - you can take the boy out of the country but you can't take the country out of the boy
The answer to your training query is that you don't hammer your way through all the other runs - the vast majority should be/must be aerobic efforts only designed to improve your overall aerobic capacity with perhaps only one run a week being used to buffer lactate performance levels. The one thing you must not do is taper for the long run by reducing effort in the rest of the week but rather adjust the effort in the week so that the long run is achievable. A training effort that leaves you to exhausted to do the next training day is a wasted training day!!
I think the thyroid meds are going to need adjusting. Fortunately I have a doctor's appointment this Thursday so will discuss with him armed with my latest research papers!!
It was rather ironic that Sunday was, of course the GRN HM.
I ran in the first one back in 1981 and it was my first ever long distance road race and came after after fairly limited training - and it was easy, or as easy as a 1:30 HM can be. I finished with massive chafing inside both legs where my shorts had rubbed though the skin and I walked like a cowboy for a week afterwards
36 years later I couldn't complete a mile without stopping - "look on my works, ye mighty, and despair"
I did....................
So, not an exact science. See how your 18 goes (you felt relatively spritely at the end of your 15, which augurs well) ; and your half (which was well paced, and, I dare say, quite comfy) also is encouraging. However, as you won't need telling, 26.2 is a long way (its more than 6.2 miles further than 20)
TS - hope the doc visit proves beneficial. Never done the GNR - not sure why, as I've probably done around 50 half marathons . . . . . .
Mick, really good news that a parkrun is going to held so near you. I'm sure the extra opportunities to race are going to help you no end. Well done on your second place in the over-60s and for keeping up with a runner in his 40s for so long. Good too that you are free of injury concerns again.
Ray, I'm very impressed with your 15 and 20 mile runs at such a good place. It bodes well for the marathon.
Columba, not good news about your achilles. How frustrating for you. Let's hope it clears up before too long. There's good advice on here to follow though and I'm sure there's plenty more online.
Welshpoppy, 110 miles in a month is still pretty good considering your recent injury. All the best for your half marathon (I'm assuming it's next weekend and not the one just gone). If you've already done it, I hope it went well.
Dave, what a very impressive lifetime running mileage you've accumulated. I don't imagine many can beat that. That's a great time for your 63 year old friend in his half.
TS, another encouraging result for the Toon. Unlike our recent relegataion season we're not carrying any passengers and that might see us safe this time round.
Our hotel in Amsterdam was very near the city's largest park and I did two runs, one of 5 miles, the other 7. Both were at 8-minute a mile pace and I felt surprisingly good after days of sightseeing. I knew about the number of cyclists in Amsterdam of course but it really does have to be seen to be believed. It means you have to be very aware as a pedestrian because bikes really are everywhere, travel at speed and take no prisoners.
It can take a while to get your meds right judging by what some friends have said. I am not good at waiting either but I am rooting for you so keep at it.
I am sure your framing would be 2x4 white pine which is really cheap and as long as it is well dried and doesn't get wet is perfect building material.
John,
It is important if you are going to get the most out of your long run to make your other runs easy that is, as TS, said aerobic. This is when a HRM can be useful as to a 5k runner it will feel ridiculously easy.
Columba,
It seems running in your 70s is all about managing your injuries. Good luck with the achilles. I found that once the inflammation was under control I could run, just very carefully. I don't want to be gloomy but it took me a year to shake it off completely despite all sorts of professional treatment.
An easy 6k for me today, just to get the legs moving. Right leg reacted a bit but nothing to worry about. My park run is on Saturday so I should be good to go by then.
I got the official results of my race and I came 20th out of 120 so definitely a slow field. I came second in the over 60s AG as I thought.
Another bonnie project underway. I am replacing the rear brake rotor as the existing one is worn and the rear brake is only 50% efficient. The parts are in so tomorrow afternoon will see it done.
I hear that raccoons have arrived in the UK, good luck with that. Over the weekend I tried to eliminate a wasp's nest in one of my deck flower boxes after my wife got stung. I tried the chemical thing but the nest was just not reachable so I was going to have to disassemble the box.
Raccoons save my the problem, they dug out the nest and ate it. I put it all back together and didn't they come back and dug it out again just to see if they had missed anything. They had a busy night as they went around the front and dug up part of the lawn looking for bugs.
Mick
I was sensible yesterday and did a little 25 minute recovery run.
TS - I have a very vague memory of the great Kevin Keegan running the GNR in its early days and offering £1 to charity for everyone who beat him. Did this happen? (Image of you walking like a cowboy is just a little disturbing - but you'd have been very welcome in Brighton.) Good luck with the doctor - but perhaps it's the doctor we should be wishing good luck!
Graham - I liked Amsterdam too. I took a group of about 30 students. Any residual attempts at control evaporated (or should I say went up in smoke) very shortly after arrival. The students, though, behaved very well!
Mick - I think a racoon killed my relatives' cat. Can this happen? (I saw a fox and a cat in a stand-off the other morning.) That's a very respectable finishing position in your race. Next one.....parkrun??
Will do something suitably aerobic today!
We came back yesterday and boy the weather was interesting very much Welsh rain it was bouncing off the roads and it was like that for the two day and yes for the race drowned rats come to mind.I had a lovely time regardless smiling high fiving the children and supporters bless them all for coming out in horrid weather. The race itself was a PW but I had knee problems at mile 8 so hoped they would go away but had to stop stretched then mile 11 calf issues so another stretch was needed but I saw the sign mile 12 time to put the hammer down for last mile and finished very strongly. then back to cottage for a very hot soak in the bath :-) lets hope next year it is drier:-)
Miles makes smiles.
Progression