Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    12 stage relays in 2 weeks then.

    We've got 4 of our top boys missing, but we're just about clinging onto a full 12. It's touch and go though, and 12 is a lot of troops to keep fit and well without a sub this year! (The 2017 sub is in the team!)

    I'd guess we have it all to do to qualify, but it'll still be a good rampage, and the long leg is always shorter at the southerns than the Nationals. And presumably without the real arse of a hill, and soulless out and back bit at Sutton Park!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    ps Jools, that Cardiff 5k I mentioned, I think it's a diffo one to the series you said about? This looks a big time once a year job?

    https://www.cardiff5k.com/2019/
  • muddyfunstermuddyfunster ✭✭✭
    edited March 11
    The Apple Watch with an eSim and GPS might be a useful device to wear Stevie (and Philip) as it does fall detection and places an emergency services call on your behalf if that situation should arise and you don't cancel the alert. Certainly something I've worried about after bashing my head and ribs in a few weeks back. Can't afford an iPhone though, which is a prerequisite for the eSim service.

    I know you may have dismissed the comments by now Stevie, but there may be something in Ric's comments to cause some reflection. I've been prompted to look at my own easy efforts based on observing sub 2.40 and sub 2.30 marathoners that I've come across on Strava that have easy miles come out around 7.20-30's (same as mine generally, unless I'm coming off a rest day). I do think my efforts are truly easy, based on heart rate 125 off 175 max. However they are running approximately twice the volume that I run and their quality sessions are down at sub 5.30 min/mile pace. Whereas I am a bit hit and miss on the quality front.

    Rubbish weekend of running for me - not worth mentioning in the context of marathon training. Hoping to rectify this evening.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Yeah that's a different one SG. Definitely a bigger, & pricier, deal. Only a little bit sharper at the front though.
    Mate of mine at work mentioned a top Japanese marathoner who went out to the states. He joined some group of elite guys out there who figured he was too slow on the LRs but then couldn't keep up on the intervals. He was used to huge volume @5min/K but then nailing 2:45 K reps.

  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    There's always some prick walking a dog around here so you'll do well to die out there.

    Starting to wonder if I have something wrong with me or perhaps I am just unfit, done a few runs now post-Wokingham and they've all been slow and hard work. I can't blame the wind as it feels much the same when the wind is behind me.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited March 11
    I think the key to LSR (and easy run) speed is total volume. If you 'only' do 50k (c30 miles) a week (including races) then you can't really afford the limited "easy" stuff to be all 2 min per mile slower than 10k pace, or it is all too easy and you never push yourself except in races or reps. Conversely if you are a high volume runner it makes more sense to be truly easy on a lot of the runs, as you already have enough other quality during a typical week. That's why the approaches of Jooligan's mate's and the guys Muddy looks at on Strava makes sense for them.

    SG you are probably somewhere in the middle doing about 80kpw. As such maybe 20% over 10k pace for easy runs makes sense, which is pretty much 7mm, so what you are generally doing :)

    I typically only do about 50kpw so am reasonably relaxed about having an easy pace of about 4'30 per k (7'15 miles) even though that is the same as much faster guys like Muddy and only about 16% slower than my best 10k pace.    

    Not much to report running wise; parkrun was a bog standard 18'58 at Rushmoor and did my 2nd and last long prep run for Fleet today. Was 21k in just under 1'36 (4'34 per k av) without pushing it very hard; had hoped that would be a bit quicker but was still gusty winds I suppose. Will need all the help from the conditions, race day magic and the VF's to get that down by over 10 mins on the day to have a hope of sub 1'25.   
  • Good luck for Fleet Pete (was dying to say that)

    I do less volume and less quality than Stevie generally though Pete (averaged 40 something miles per week this year) so could be justified in knocking out bulk of my stuff at top end of easy (when I don't). Anyway my self-directed thoughts were really about questioning why I struggle to get the quality in so I started to look at too fast easy paces as being potentially the issue after reading Ric's comments. I came up with poor recovery modes too (lack of sleep, crap diet), and some real life stresses.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Philip - Decathlon do a good, cheap waist band specifically for a phone and key. A whistle is a very good safety measure too - never runs out of battery or signal and weighs bugger all!

    Reg - might just be recovery from running a long, hard race without the specific training for it. I'd give it another week before reading to much into it.

    Pete - I look forward to moving even further back on the V50 rankings :smile: Presumably parkrunning the day before????
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 11
    I thought you intentionally keep the quality light muddy? I didn't know it's because you're not feeling recovered?

    Good thoughts above and of course everyone could do runs slower. We all look at other's runs and think...bit fast. I look at club mates a fair chunk slower than me claiming low or just under 7 as "easy" and it won't be. Or a quality marathoner starting at 730 and ending at 630 but it not being a session just shocking lack of discipline 😄


    The thing i always use as a guide is "is it affecting the sessions". And they seem to come out right most of the time and unlike a lot of runners i see don't smash me.that was a key moz principle as they were guides to race at a race pace generally.
    The standard runs generally fall into line with the week's sessions..i don't generally come in under 7 like i used to. They tend to be low 7s which seems fine and i see no extra benefit from purposely slowing momentum. Some days will come out slower naturally and so be it.

    Ric was following his tendency to need to link a condition or something being wrong to every situation.
    I mentioned breathing for example in my cool down with pete after the Ealing mile. One it was not long after id missed a race not feeling 100% and two it was just after a mile race and we were chatting a lot.

    It was nothing to do with easy pace being too fast!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Ps jools that 5k series must be tasty then as the winners have been doing 1420-1430s at the other one!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Pete i used to think taking a min a mile off a training run versus the race isnt out of the question. Many a 1.31 v 1.18 type job rolled for me. So 10mins off a not very hard effort in wind does not sound Impossible!
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    I think overall it's best not to get too hung up on arguing the pro and cons of various training aspects.

    All too easy to promote one way above all others and then find at some point it comes back to bite you on the arse.

    I'll settle for moving things about. For the sake of retaining interest as much as anything.
    Always worth cross checking methods. There could be a hidden gem of info in there.

    Session for me this morning. Did 6 x half miles around a testing off road loop. 7:15 mile average sounds slow, but negotiating a slightly muddy hill into a strong wind wasn't going to generate much in the way of speed. 

    Still getting used to the shock of 'effort'.
  • ioweriower ✭✭✭
    Interesting topic to me this easy pace thing - starting my marathon build I wore a heart rate monitor and religiously kept it in check despite this resulting in a ridiculously slow pace at the start. Now I’ve probably taken 60-90 secs/mile off at that intensity, with much less fluctuation on the hills too. I tend to keep it to feel to be honest and as SG said as long as it doesn’t affect the stuff where it’s actually important to hit certain paces or intensities then I don’t mind too much. Definitely good to keep the ego in check though! Especially while building volume. 

    5 miles at ‘easy’ (10k plus 1:47 per mile) pace today! 

    Got a few clubmates looking at the Milton Keynes 5000m track event - lots of seeded races and good for PBs apparently. Entry fee is a bit steep IIRC though. Also looking at the Lakeside 5k series in Pompey which are much cheaper (get a whole series for the same price as the MK one) and lots of local talent filling the front end of the field. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 11

    Tru say Ric, and I hope you stay in decent nick to have a go at a May race or 2 in good form. Win the thread some dough at Staines again.

    I was satisfied with how my 5k tour went last year Iower, but that series is one I didn't get round to covering.

    I'm hoping Premier Inn get this Southampton Zip hotel sorted soon, as that'd be a fantastic cheapo place to be able to hang about post race at, without either stonking 50-60 down, or having to drive there and back of an evening (which I did for Gosport 5k last year)


    Dug out the old training plan, and found a session that might fit in nicely with what I've been doing recently.

    3x(1mile at HMP, 30secs, then 800m 10k pace, 2mins)

    I will re-assess if I get there and it's as stormingly windy as it's been recently.

    If it is, that'd be a world of pain, and I might instead go for a mass wad of 200-300metres instead.

    Will probably be a single tomorrow, due to messing about with some dentistry, haircut, Wycombe game. Rock n roll ting.

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    Bus, don't worry about your v50 ranking, I'm in the even older codger v55's nowadays and probably won't match your Wokey time anyway. May well do parkrun before, but likely to be just with my daughter so not a fast one. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Phew :smiley:
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited March 11
    Im at Fleet Sunday, as part of my Brighton build up, never run it so no idea on how fast it is. I managed 1.24.1X at a very windy Worthing last month (and bagged the M50 cat) so hopefully Fleet will be quicker if its a better day.

    That Lakeside 5k series is a mile or so from me, never run it, but it'll be quick if its not windy.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    Hope you get a still day.  A half can be enough of a slog without wind making it a treacle experience.

    Added some holz to my allowance this year - April - End March, so plenty of scope for a few more hoons.

    Wasn't galeforce today, so went through with planned sesh as quoted.

    So 3x 1600 HMP, 30secs, 800 at 10k, 2mins.

    1.28 the aim for the HMP, but when I got there I allowed myself a vague" just do the 800 quicker" disclaimer without pressurising.

    In the end I didn't need such a disclaimer, and it all went spot on

    1.27,1.28,1.28,1.27 - 1.23x2

    1.27x2,1.28x2 - 1.23 x2  
     (took lap 4 of the 1600 as 1.29, but in truth i'd missed the click, so it was at worst a 1.28, possibly faster, but we'll put 1.28 - in the pissing about took a few secs too long for the 30, but never mind)

    1.26,1.28,1.26,1.26 - 1.23,1.20


    It's funny how when you're doing 1.28s you think you're going decently, but in truth stepping up to 1.23 off a tiny rest didn't feel too hard at all.

    Wind stepped up a bit on rep 2, but didn't impact it.

    Nice little session. Step up in pace off a short recovery. A Moz sesh from back in the day.
  • Enjoying reading along as this thread moves at a million miles per hour. Every time I check back it's something ludicrous like '39 unread posts', 34 of which are from SG to be fair. 

    Some decent training going on and some interesting chat re; training paces. I'm more than happy to run as slow as I feel like, knowing I want to bring out the quality when it matters. Like Ric said though, plenty of ways to do it, definitely isn't one size fits all. 

    Nice session this morning SG, clearly still in decent shape, you'll have to turn out somewhere soon. 

    Nothing too exciting last week. Managed 100 miles which I'm happy about, not much quality in there, but when the times I'd planned to run sessions came around I wasn't feeling too special (was feeling slightly ill all week, nothing major), so knocked it on the head. Did do 2 quite hard bike sessions and a few swims, so all in all, was a decent weeks training. Finished off with 26 miles on Sunday including pacing 1:30 at the Surrey Half - always good fun. 

    Got Reading this Sunday. Still undecided on approach. If I'm going to taper, it's going to be a short one. 8.5 miles yest and 13 this morning. May well run it as a marathon pace jobby. 
     
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    SG: Excellently executed session this morning.
    Comparison of the results of those Cardiff 5Ks reveals that whilst none went sub 15 at the SSAFA series there are always a few going inside 16 & another dozen going under 17 from fields of 155-220 whereas the Race for Victory had 1534 finishers yet apart from the handful who went sub 15 only 7 went sub 16 & another 21 sub 17.
    I opted for the TM, 2% incline as usual, for my morning session: 10M with [email protected]:00 off [email protected]:00. Just inside 70 minutes for the session. Didn't do a before & after weigh-in today but definitely lost a few kg again!!


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 12
    Joe - certainly true! An insight into my "think of 100s of running related ideas at the same time and smash them onto this page with barely any link or reason" approach. Must be bloody gruelling to wade through :D 

    I see Reading is still enterable until tomorrow, tenner off with "parkrun10" for any lurkers.... Also the Banbury 15 which would be an interesting "get a 15 on file job". You could get away with a 15 as any old effort I think, a glorified training run for a steady effort turnout, as it wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb on the records!
    I haven't really ever entered a big race late doors though in fairness..

    I suspect that the weekend will be an utter gale force job though.

    Incredible mileage by the way!


    Jools - me getting hung up on 14 or 15xx winning times is ludicrous really, as they'd be a mile down the road either way! As long as there's a healthy stack in the 1640-1720 sort of mix which there would be.

    I'm already weighing up a right old 5k tour this spring/summer - local stuff, Battersea Park, Cardiff, Portsmouth/Gosport, Northern stuff. Could be fun times.

    Good mental fortitude there! That's a nice sesh to get off.
    When I have a build up to a 10miler or something again, I fancy a mix of steady and target pace jobs.
    Hour session, stuff like 10mins HMP, 10mins steady x3, all the way down to 10x3mins on, 3mins steady. Good sessions.



  • Saw Joe's face here, why the hat raise for the photo? Surely you need to pull it down.

    https://twitter.com/xempouk/status/1105431546079727616
  • Pulling it down would probably be more classy Phil, good point. More importantly, I need a bloody haircut. What a disgrace. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    That must feel odd that big sign lodged up your back.
    Probz better than holding a little stick up like I've seen Phil do at parkrun, in fairness.

    Right, half day, dentist, haircut, Wycombe game. The ultimate package!
  • Loving the guy on the left of the Cardiff 5k link. Very....very...drunk at the time

    98 Notifications! Christ. So have had a gander and generally just a bit of training - no one did the big half, I'm sure every runner knew someone who did it at least - I must admit, being a bit of an old dog these days it was quite amusing seeing the amount of runners I knew who were running with Steph Twell, one HHH guy and amusing seeing McTaggart of BAC falling on his arse..he would.

    Did a few strides Sat am as me and the kid went to London for the day - then a swift 11 miles in a faster than LSR/not as quick as a tempo manner Sunday morning. Long commute yesterday and then this morning it was 16 x 400m (roughly) around St Pancras Pk off 45 secs, one 78, one 73 and then all around 71's


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    The guy in the green vest is on both the cardiff 5k links. I recognise him from the murder mile. Identical twin! On the day having the rush to get there i did wonder if id hallucinated two of them!

    Strange team name. Something like mickey mouse racing team?!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    edited March 12
    Micky Morris Racing Team - S Wales elite running club.
    Their biggest star, Natasha Cockram, ran 2:34:18 at the Houston marathon in January which makes her 48th fastest AT
    "Mic Morris was a police officer and brilliant British international middle distance runner from Pontypool who died aged just 24 years during a training run in 1983" from the Mic Morris Torfaen 10K race website.
    A Mick Morris represented Wales in the Senior Men's race at the 1976 IAAF World Cross Country Championships in Chepstow coming 75th but it can't be the same guy can it? Junior racing as a Senior?
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    Natasha Cockram?
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited March 13
    Does that require a "Ohh matron"?

    Apparently all these "COCK" surnames, Cockhead, Cockburn, Cockless etc, the cock is pronounced "Co", so presumably that one above is Coram?

    So the time as an 18 year old in some phone jockey job, I "bottled" asking "is that Mr Cock" on the phone, by instead saying, "is that Mr C" wasn't quite as awkward as it could be?


    Erm, anyway, good luck to the Reading gang.
    I was for some reason monitoring the entry deadline, 10am today, and did wonder about a last min sign up.
    But I think the moment for a half has passed now, I'm not quite up for it, and whopping in £40 (with the tenner reduction code), plus a tenner to park, just all made it a bit of a non starter.

    Returning to racing with a 4.5mile leg at the 12 stage as part of a good day out with the gang seems a much better way to get back into it. 


    Horribly windy first half of my 5miler today. One of those where you know it's the weather, but you can't help think "am I knackered", "have i lost speed" type jobs.

    Used it as an opportunity to reclaim the "ferocious" segment I'd lost, some geezer took it to 6min dead miling for just under 1/4mile :D  

    It is slightly uphill, but even with wind and a moderate effort, I took the 1.31 pace down to 1.24 - had to be done!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I’ll stick with a hard cock for my pronunciation.

    Ran from my child’s nursery to my wife’s office today, perfect visit, just a few minutes. Short enough that we were both still pleased to have seen each other as I left. Return leg was a nice tailwind but I was still slowing last mile. I’m going to run Reading easy, maybe with a few threshold miles for the last 5k.
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