Great run in the 20M, LMH! I bet that's a WAVA% to make me cry. Well done there too CC2.
Sounds quick Padams!
I did my standard reps/tempo staircase yesterday, covering my speed bases from 0.5 to 4M in 7 sections and about 14 miles, then ran steady to make it a 3hr08 marathon. It was way better than last week, given my fresh legs, but the paces were still disappointing compared to my before my better marathons in recent years -- but maybe I should prepare for a 'new normal'... My legs are pretty trashed today from the unaccustomed speed I guess, worse I think than running the Cambridge Boundary Run semi-competitively actually a bit quicker overall (but with no acute speed) a fortnight ago. Not sure if I'll manage to pull off my 100M in 5d again, given their state now.
After an email consultation with my physio this morning and a subsequent stretch and foam roll I headed out with no expectations this morning and am happy to have completed a pedestrian (took me as long as yesterday's undulating 20) eighteen miles this morning with legs feeling better at the end than the beginning. Not sure I'm going to be able to say the same in the morning mind if my quads are anything to go by.
No idea Charlie - all I can see really is that it was two minutes slower than two years ago though I'm trying to focus on the positives. I'm hoping we'll both be pleased and surprised by out performances at London.
Sounds like a tough leg at the relays Padams.
I'm trying to take the positives CD - TT.
If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
Mennania that’s a great time - I was trying to work out the race distance - I didn’t know how quick you are - yes on the stress!
oo yep more time to train 😊
nice long runs i kind if slacked but not too bothered 8 day streak since settling in to new place and 55 last week - I’m going to chance it a bit and drop a couple of 20s this week and then easy week next
sj - well done on the pb you’ll be ahead of me an manc! I think I might be somewhere close to my 10 year ago 10k times now (they’ll be rubbish) on my tempo run last Tuesday strava tells me that was my fastest 10k so I suspect that would be in the last 6 years
LMH - Fresh legs better after 18 miles has to be a good sign!!
Padams& CD - Im not sure - ive managed 5min PB per Mara to date getting me from 2.59 to 2.39 and was planning a 2.34 effort for Edi and then if still on track go for 2.29 in autumn or London 2020. Conversion tend to be HMP + 10 -12 secs or 2x HMP +5-6mins. Both of which point to quicker than 2.34. Current thinking is train to 2.29 and see how I go.
LMH - very impressive run at Ashby, nicely done. And back it up today with another 18. Confidence should be building nicely?
Menn - that's a superb result, you must be delighted with that. Very excited to track your progress towards Edinburgh, I'll be up there doing the half.
CC - well done for toughing it out. No doubt it'll have some good training benefit and will stand you in good stead for the future.
Padams - nicely done at the relays. Must have been an eye opener going out with the proper fast lads!
CW - another impressive training mara banked, not surprised the legs are pretty trashed today!
Finished off another good week with 24 miles @ 6:45mm along the thames path with a couple of club mates. Surprised at how manageable the pace felt with HR well under control. Capped off a 96 mile week straight off the back of Reading last weekend.
Still also pretending to be a triathlete with some swimming and biking thrown in for good measure. The temptation to race London is becoming harder and harder to resist.
Nice conversion Mennania - similar to mine though unfortunately my half time is somewhat slower.
If only Joe - everything is slower than last year and the year before, not sure older and faster is going to happen this year but that's not going to stop me trying. Nice training. I randomly accosted a Clapham Chaser on the start line yesterday, I sort of dodged the awkward 'how do you know Joe'
If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
Mennania - sounds like a nice target. I got my first sub-2:30 at Edinburgh, but I think I was in better shape at the time (probably the fittest I've ever been). There was a really strong easterly wind along the coast, which isn't ideal when the finish is several miles to the east of the start! Just hope for no wind, or a light westerly if anything.
JoeB - that's why I like doing these sort of races, makes you realise you're not really any good and provides a bit of motivation. Sounds like you're coming into great running shape!
Officially 25:46 yesterday, so saved a few seconds. Got within 2.5 mins of Marders, and 131st fastest long leg, so just about in the top half!
LMH - 2mins slower at Ashby is negligible, you didnt have the same build up as before so can't compare accurately. BM would have been a pb on a better day. So a pb is on the cards esp at vlm, as long as you stay fit and its not stupidly hot. But that was a nippy 18 today after a tough day yday, so give yourself a few easy days now to let it soak in, 20m races are tough.
Padams - good job unattached harriers dont do relays if you were 130ish.
Keep those over 3hrs CW, it will hopefully help keep you fresher.
Menn - cracking progression. You know your body and how to prepare it so go with your usual conversions.
No more silly long mlrs for me now, so stopped at my 15m limit (8:XX pace as usual).
My default pace seems to have dropped to around that, but I wouldn’t say it feels easy, haven’t settled into a nice rhythm yet - possibly because it’s been dark and uneven pavements / traffic when I stop I’m not tired and my breathing goes back to normal pretty much immediately. It’s difficult to remember exactly how MP feels, but I remember it feeling easier (possibly?)
MP feels tough here too....that's why I rarely run MP in my training. Either short and fast or longer and slower and then like magic on the day, with the taper and the race feel, it seems to come together. Decent sess TR - yes, no long now.
I can barely run faster than MP in training (barring, on a track, as part of short intervals). Can just about muster some HMP chunks, but usually if I'm in a group as part of a session.
Menn - I'm doing the half, so I guess I've got to shoot for that sub 75. Will then get a chance to watch the mara, sure I'll give you a shout if I see you.
Its interesting that most folks here don't do the race specific training that so many schedules call for.
Maybe I don't need to do it either or perhaps not as fast. I guess I race so infrequently that I still haven't figured out what works and what doesn't.
I think that's one of the problems sj - we don't know what's optimum really so when we find something that delivers a result we stick with it, or at least that's the way it's worked with me. The increased mileage has given me PBs for the last few years so I don't dare do anything different. Having said that it also suits my current lifestyle and generally speaking I enjoy being out and 'just running' rather than feeling pressure/disappointment if I'm supposed to hit a certain pace in a session.
If you think you can or you think you can't you're probably right.
OO - It sounds a lot when said out loud, but the encouraging thing was that it was a really controlled run. HR way, way below marathon effort. I guess if I'm shooting for a 2:3x then MP is around 6mm, so 6:45 should be manageable. If I've said it now does that mean I have to try...
Like LMH I am also trialling the high mileage experiment (albeit not as many..), very unsure how it's going to turn out.
Joe - mcmillan (?) quote a session of 24m at mp +20% as good mara prep, at 6mm thatd be 24m av 7.12. So you are in good shape, if it was an easyish effort.
SJ - im going to do my pre abo 1/2s as mp runs, although i think thats cheating as it'll be easier.
Im making a point of changing the odd thing each campaign to shock the body, although ive changed lots of things this time.
Anything at MP always feels a lot harder in training than with a number on. I've never tried it, but I suspect the same is true of parkrun - even when I've basically run it solo on a Saturday morning, if I went back Sunday morning at 9am and tried to match the same time I doubt I'd manage it.
It makes it very difficult to judge what your pace should be when you're either on the upslope or downslope of your running 'career'. On the plus side, when you're in those plateau years you can toe the line fairly confident of where your training has left you.
Joe - yes, it's out there now, you have to go for it. TBH I think you'll be a good bit below 2:40.
TR.. more decent double digit runs in the wind-down. Good session today.
WTGY.. good luck with shoehorning a couple more long runs in this week, I'd do the same if I had an interrupted schedule.
Joe.. you're obviously in good shape if that long run felt comfy! Did I see elsewhere that Katie is injured again? She doesn't get much luck on that front.
LMH.. 18m the day after a 20m race is impressive, sounds like your physio knows you well.
Charlie.. good to see your trademark marathon training runs taking shape, I guess you will have to take this week a day at a time if your legs are grumbling.
Padams.. great racing in the relays, sounds like a fierce standard there!
My legs are just about back to normal now, 5m yesterday & 10m today. After this coming weekend away I will have 2-3 weeks to 'top up' for VLM and fit a couple more long runs in. I feel like I'm building up again whereby most folks seem to be looking forward to the VLM taper!
Joe - Yep, your clearly in great nick and time to have a good go at your Valencia PB 2.39? Hopefully again you will be a mile up the road from me. I am not trying heavy mileage but running 10 miles a week more than in a typical marathon buildup of recent years which has averaged out around 55-60 mpw previously.
1. It definitely does me good doing full-distance training runs.
2. My recovery is awful, so I can only do any fast running after a day or two's break.
3. Therefore I put the quality running in the long run.
4. But also, the high-mileage trudging seems to work for me. Which leaves me doing that in the days immediately after my long run. But because my recovery is awful, that means slow, painful plodding.
So I'm trying a "5-2" diet right now: two days off, five days on. First day on is the high-quality, marathon distance run; the next 4 should get me to 100 miles to tick off the big mileage thing. I might still scrape that this week, despite running hard enough on Sunday in training to give myself DOMS, but some of it has been around 10 min/M! Is that going to work? Dunno, maybe I'll find out on 28th April. If it's a massive success, you heard it here first.
anyone use beetroot juice prior to a marathon? I recall loading on It a few years ago. Made my wee amazing colours especially when dehydrated. Also it made my training mate shit himself on a run
WTGY.. I've been eating cheese & beetroot sarnies since I was a lad, so long before beetroot became trendy. Not sure I need extra before a marathon
Besides that Mrs Wardi gets large jars of sliced beetroot from her factory shop for about 10p.
Charlie.. when I ran in Valencia the goody bag had a large aerosol of freeze spray within. I used it on my quads & other aching bits after the Barca marathon and it does seem to help & hasten the soothing and healing process. There are variants available over here.
Menn.. truly wretched luck, not even a running injury either.
Yup, But It is what it is I guess. Fractures clinic tomorrow to see if anything can/needs to be done other than time. Ranges for layoff vary from 2 weeks to 8 weeks. Good news is I am walking wounded and can bear some weight so hopefully will be the short end of that scale. Going to look at flexibility and core in the mean time. Heads up on sny good programmes or websites would be appreciated.
Beetroot - Yep, Im a user, couldnt tell you if its just placebo or actually provides a benefit but I use it. It also helps me counter the bunged up effects of carbo loading too.........
Comments
Great run in the 20M, LMH! I bet that's a WAVA% to make me cry. Well done there too CC2.
Sounds quick Padams!
I did my standard reps/tempo staircase yesterday, covering my speed bases from 0.5 to 4M in 7 sections and about 14 miles, then ran steady to make it a 3hr08 marathon. It was way better than last week, given my fresh legs, but the paces were still disappointing compared to my before my better marathons in recent years -- but maybe I should prepare for a 'new normal'... My legs are pretty trashed today from the unaccustomed speed I guess, worse I think than running the Cambridge Boundary Run semi-competitively actually a bit quicker overall (but with no acute speed) a fortnight ago. Not sure if I'll manage to pull off my 100M in 5d again, given their state now.
After an email consultation with my physio this morning and a subsequent stretch and foam roll I headed out with no expectations this morning and am happy to have completed a pedestrian (took me as long as yesterday's undulating 20) eighteen miles this morning with legs feeling better at the end than the beginning. Not sure I'm going to be able to say the same in the morning mind if my quads are anything to go by.
No idea Charlie - all I can see really is that it was two minutes slower than two years ago though I'm trying to focus on the positives. I'm hoping we'll both be pleased and surprised by out performances at London.
Sounds like a tough leg at the relays Padams.
I'm trying to take the positives CD - TT.
- yes on the stress!
oo yep more time to train 😊
nice long runs i kind if slacked but not too bothered
8 day streak since settling in to new place and 55 last week - I’m going to chance it a bit and drop a couple of 20s this week and then easy week next
sj - well done on the pb you’ll be ahead of me an manc! I think I might be somewhere close to my 10 year ago 10k times now (they’ll be rubbish)
on my tempo run last Tuesday strava tells me that was my fastest 10k so I suspect that would be in the last 6 years
Padams& CD - Im not sure - ive managed 5min PB per Mara to date getting me from 2.59 to 2.39 and was planning a 2.34 effort for Edi and then if still on track go for 2.29 in autumn or London 2020. Conversion tend to be HMP + 10 -12 secs or 2x HMP +5-6mins. Both of which point to quicker than 2.34. Current thinking is train to 2.29 and see how I go.
Menn - that's a superb result, you must be delighted with that. Very excited to track your progress towards Edinburgh, I'll be up there doing the half.
CC - well done for toughing it out. No doubt it'll have some good training benefit and will stand you in good stead for the future.
Padams - nicely done at the relays. Must have been an eye opener going out with the proper fast lads!
CW - another impressive training mara banked, not surprised the legs are pretty trashed today!
Finished off another good week with 24 miles @ 6:45mm along the thames path with a couple of club mates. Surprised at how manageable the pace felt with HR well under control. Capped off a 96 mile week straight off the back of Reading last weekend.
Still also pretending to be a triathlete with some swimming and biking thrown in for good measure. The temptation to race London is becoming harder and harder to resist.
If only Joe - everything is slower than last year and the year before, not sure older and faster is going to happen this year but that's not going to stop me trying. Nice training. I randomly accosted a Clapham Chaser on the start line yesterday, I sort of dodged the awkward 'how do you know Joe'
Mennania - sounds like a nice target. I got my first sub-2:30 at Edinburgh, but I think I was in better shape at the time (probably the fittest I've ever been). There was a really strong easterly wind along the coast, which isn't ideal when the finish is several miles to the east of the start! Just hope for no wind, or a light westerly if anything.
JoeB - that's why I like doing these sort of races, makes you realise you're not really any good and provides a bit of motivation. Sounds like you're coming into great running shape!
Officially 25:46 yesterday, so saved a few seconds. Got within 2.5 mins of Marders, and 131st fastest long leg, so just about in the top half!
LMH - 2mins slower at Ashby is negligible, you didnt have the same build up as before so can't compare accurately. BM would have been a pb on a better day. So a pb is on the cards esp at vlm, as long as you stay fit and its not stupidly hot. But that was a nippy 18 today after a tough day yday, so give yourself a few easy days now to let it soak in, 20m races are tough.
Padams - good job unattached harriers dont do relays if you were 130ish.
Keep those over 3hrs CW, it will hopefully help keep you fresher.
Menn - cracking progression. You know your body and how to prepare it so go with your usual conversions.
No more silly long mlrs for me now, so stopped at my 15m limit (8:XX pace as usual).
My default pace seems to have dropped to around that, but I wouldn’t say it feels easy, haven’t settled into a nice rhythm yet - possibly because it’s been dark and uneven pavements / traffic
when I stop I’m not tired and my breathing goes back to normal pretty much immediately.
It’s difficult to remember exactly how MP feels, but I remember it feeling easier (possibly?)
Top morning for running today, frosty and sunny. 10m inc 15x3min. Only got 2 or 3 decent runs left.
It was a lovely morning for a run here too TR.
Decent sess TR - yes, no long now.
I do the P&D thing - lsr withs , 8, 10, & 12 at MP. They are the most difficult runs in the whole schedule by far.
Menn - I'm doing the half, so I guess I've got to shoot for that sub 75. Will then get a chance to watch the mara, sure I'll give you a shout if I see you.
Like LMH I am also trialling the high mileage experiment (albeit not as many..), very unsure how it's going to turn out.
SJ - im going to do my pre abo 1/2s as mp runs, although i think thats cheating as it'll be easier.
Im making a point of changing the odd thing each campaign to shock the body, although ive changed lots of things this time.
Anything at MP always feels a lot harder in training than with a number on. I've never tried it, but I suspect the same is true of parkrun - even when I've basically run it solo on a Saturday morning, if I went back Sunday morning at 9am and tried to match the same time I doubt I'd manage it.
It makes it very difficult to judge what your pace should be when you're either on the upslope or downslope of your running 'career'. On the plus side, when you're in those plateau years you can toe the line fairly confident of where your training has left you.
Joe - yes, it's out there now, you have to go for it. TBH I think you'll be a good bit below 2:40.
I am not trying heavy mileage but running 10 miles a week more than in a typical marathon buildup of recent years which has averaged out around 55-60 mpw previously.
Definitely Joe.
Heavy is all relative though OuchOuch.
True CD.
Sub 3 curse strikes again.......Gone and broken my big toe falling over my computer bag.
anyone use beetroot juice prior to a marathon?
I recall loading on It a few years ago. Made my wee amazing colours especially when dehydrated. Also it made my training mate shit himself on a run
Beetroot - Yep, Im a user, couldnt tell you if its just placebo or actually provides a benefit but I use it. It also helps me counter the bunged up effects of carbo loading too.........