Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Bus - you are doing ok too, to be able to double.

    Theres a multi distance day at Goodwood motor cct end of Sept and early Dec, so i might jump on those if vlm and brighton get cancelled this week.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Keep on keeping on chaps. All pretty standard stuff. Bus/Reg with tales of altercations old & new. SG segging & off-roading at midday but pausing the watch to maintain the illusion of pace when circumstances force a walk. I had a similar 3-400m stretch Sunday & another yesterday but there's no way I'd stop the watch on those. I do if I need a breather though.
    My Friday segging fartlek left the legs fatigued for (not)parkrun Saturday. I was 20:05 on the same hilly course as last week. That was in the middle of a 10M run.
    Sunday I ran an easy 8M along country lanes, footpaths & woodland trails. It was on a stretch of towpath outside Newent that I was reduced to a walk by the brambles, thistles & nettles which were made the path near impossible to negotiate. Other than that it was a fun little jaunt around an area I used to live in pre-running days.
    Yesterday I went back to the Black Mountains doing Blorenge, then Sugar Loaf & finally Skirrid Fawr in quick succession: 13.1M & 4,500ft
    Not the ideal prep for today's virtual 'race': Stage 4 of the Cotswold Way Relay which is a 12.7M rollercoaster totalling 1666ft of climb. Glad I'd stashed water at the half way & the 'finish'. Of course the 'finish' was really only half-way as I had to then plod back to the car. Managed to find a few less undulating shortcuts so it came out as 9.3M & 1241ft for the return. Knackered now :D
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Illusion of pace?😄
    Not sure any ones gonna be calling the speed police on my woodlands ones.

    Gotta stop the watch when you stop surely?
    As long as it's not in a sesh.
    Seg hunts make no odds as the seg is the mission rather than the strict rep and recovery too.


    What i don't like is when clubmates do a clearly too fast to be in any way "easy" run then title it easy..cruise..casual etc
    Then you see it has 20mins stopped in there.

    A min or so asking directions and a waffly title about getting lost and quoting asking directions on here i don't think is trying to con anyone 😂

    Having had a little tour of offroad recently, I still don't know how people enjoy it that much. Offroad hills are so much harder than road hills, and it feels like the HR can go off the scale sometimes, not even when putting effort in!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    It's just a different beast SG. I try to look at it on effort rather than pace for off-road, given there are so many variables. That said, you can still compare pace on an off-road route you know well of course, though the variation tends to be much grater than on tarmac.

    Jools - I'm constantly amazed your legs don't just turn round and say "sod this for a game of soldiers, I'm having a lie down"  :D

    Are campsites open again in Wales by the way? if so, any recommendations Brecon/Crickhowell way, with routes from the tent?

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    I think I always forget with this route that it's a bit of a deceptive climb into Micklefield alone, let alone the up bits of the woods.

    It's only when you're in Hazlemere and remember it's a 300 feet climb to get up there

    It is a battle of enjoying a "rare" lay in..ok less rare 4months in, and then making it more awks by being out in the midday.

    Will get out earlier tomorrow, I fancy some sort of shorter tempo rampage round the Marlow 5k course, and best not delay that until midday in the mid 20s!
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    I'm just as bad on the pre-run procrastination SG: I didn't start my run til 1:10pm today even though it was a cloudless sky which meant lovely temps early doors but fierce in the midday (GMT) sun. Luckily quite a bit of the route was in woods so shaded & it clouded over for the return leg.
    As for watch stopping I'm not bothered about my average pace for most runs: if I'm reduced to a walk for whatever reason so be it, however if I'm taking a static recovery I'll pause it, be that a necessary breather, admiring a view or checking directions.
    Bus - not yet though I did hear a rumour it might be this Friday or the next one. You could always camp just over the border. I stayed at Haywood Farm (just off J3 of the M50) on Saturday
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Children are the best antidote to your pre run procrastination, you get a slot and you have to take it or it never happens. I've not run this week, got new shoes and did an 8 miler in them last week and got pain below the knee just where the ITB inserts. Possibly the fault of the shoes as they're very light and I don't think offered much cushioning. 

    Feels a lot better today so I'll probably get something in before the week is out. Club chain gang returned last night, although only three of us in the fast group, one of which we dropped after about 10 minutes so it was a 2-up from there. We still managed 24.2 mph over the 20 miles on a slightly hillier temporary course, the record on the normal course is about 24.8 mph in a large group so we were pretty pleased with our effort. Probably knackered my legs for the time trial on Thursday though! I'd started the day with a 2km lake swim and a ride there and back so all in  57 miles and a swim which is handy for a full work day. Ironically I have a day off today and plan to do no exercise.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:

    It's only when you're in Hazlemere and remember it's a 300 feet climb to get up there


    Tell me about it - and always near the end of any run I do  :)  Those long marathon training runs of yester-year had me wishing I lived in town!

    That's quick Reg! Looking at your Starav feed this week, it looks like you've managed to have fun though, even on constricted times and with no running  B)

    Cheers Jools. I'm keeping an eye on the weather, but I suspect inertia will once again get the better of me! I really need to sort out my motivation currently......
  • Nothing unusual going on: still a lot of runners running and a lot of drivers being wankers. Only odd thing is that SG has gone off road a few times and it seems to be on purpose rather than accidental. I do a lot off road and I use the rights of way maps on https://www.rowmaps.com/ to find footpaths and then plan a route to follow them on https://www.fetcheveryone.com/ and upload it to my Garmin using https://dynamic.watch. Looks like a bit of an effort but it takes about 5 minutes to plan a 13 miler off road that lasts for about 2 hours so not much of an overhead. SG, if you want a hand setting something similar up I can walk you through it: it will mean less getting lost.

    Passed by Dachs last Saturday: I was on the Thames going from Hurley upstream and he the other way. He did 15 at about 7.5 and got a segment up the hill above Hurley Village, I did 10 at 9.5 pace: no segment crowns.

    Overall, for my running, this lockdown is doing OK. I am trying to morph from a competitive runner into a recreational runner. I started running about 38 years ago (when I was 16) and I'd like to still be running when I'm 80 so I'm happy to ease down on pace in return for longevity. Mileage, oddly, is up a bit as I'm working from home and need to get out most days so I'm running 6 days a week and that pushes me up towards the mid-40s by the time I have a 13 miler once a week plus 5 others around the hour mark. 
  • Oh, just got a 10th anniversary badge. My emails say I joined 22 Mar 2010. Didn't get a Gamin until early 2011 so no record of what I was doing then so it must have been the regular 10 miles at 6-minute pace we all did every day back then ;)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Welcome back Phil. 
    When I'm getting that precise on the runs I'll know I've truly reached a different phase..but ta!

    Out in a bit..early these days!

    Reg you miss a lot of running time but make a heck of a lot of your cycling at least.

    Bus would not fancy those steep ends to longuns!!
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    PMJ - does that dynamic.watch link allow you to upload a GPX file that you've created on FE? I favour the route planner on there but have been struggling to get them on to the watch so have been defaulting to Garmin Connect as I plan routes for an upcoming Lakes trip.

    I'm running but not getting any segs so have avoided posting too much irrelevance  B)

    The idea of racing scares me a little I'll have to admit. Nothing to do with COVID, just completely out of the habit....
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    A few months ago I did 6 weeks of 6m tempos at the HM + 10-15secs zone, before switching to 10mile steady tempos offroad.

    Fancied making a nice return to nearer the former, so went and did a 5mile at Hurley, venue of the Marlow summer 5k.

    Forgot that there's a barrier between the grass parts and the roads, so that scuppered any idea of doing the full course as a loop, but it probably worked out better doing 3 laps of the road loop and then finishing through the caravans on the grass to a bit beyond the 5k finish.

    Did the road loop in reverse of the 5k race. Plush smooth road on one half, and a bit gravelly stuff on the other. Nicely flat though.

    The gravelly road had the odd tendency to sometimes jump from 6.10 to 6.40 pace and back, which is disturbing when you haven't hit the flow of this sort of pace for a while!

    Few seconds stopped for a massive lorry blocking the whole road wasn't too much of a blow in the first half mile.

    I was expecting it to be fairly warm, but in reality it was oddly quite breezy and at times tiptoing into windy, especially mile 4 that came out over 6.20, when the first 3 were in the 6.12-14 sort of mix.
    Mile 5 compensated with a surprising flourish for a 6.05 mile, on the grassy mile - glad the couple of gates were open!

    6.14 pace for the 5 - bang on in the 6.10-6.15 zone I estimate right now. That'd make the HM zone 5.55-6.00, which probably sounds about right for a next HM out with the right build up as that'd be   1.17.25 -1.18.35 sort of mix.

    These runs I always feel are a real building block. You're not trying to do them "that" hard, but they still build up over the run so you feel worked out after!
  • Wool: that is precisely what I do. I create a route on FE and export as TCX (GPX works the same but TCX seems to name the file with the name of the route so is easier to find) then import into https://dynamic.watch/me. I then have to sync the watch to get the route (that happens via Bluetooth to my iPhone). I have a free account so can only store one route but if you pay the $10 for premium you can store a lot of routes so could upload a whole week in advance. 
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Good to hear from you on here Philip  :)

    What watch do you have Wool? If it can run the Garmin apps, then there are a few navigation apps that can give you basic turn by turn directions or a breadcrumb trail from an imported GPX.  I use dwMap.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    ps Wool - agree 100% on the racing - even today I thought - heck, do I even want racing back, as racing is hard!

    But afterwards, having a nice seat on the grass, I remembered that magnificent feel of satisfaction running brings.

    Every run has some, a long run has more, a session has a good amount more, but a race - has loads more.

    THAT is what we're missing, and that's why we'll be all over it when it returns.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    thanks PMJ, I'll take a look in that case. Dare I say it, I'm actually quite missing the strava route mapping tool, that was good with the whole heatmap overlay and that gave a direct upload to the watch too.

    Bus - I've got a Fenix 5. Treated myself as a present after I reached my mara goal at Abo back in Oct 2017. Paid loadsa money for it, biggest waste ever! It does do the navigation stuff that you refer to (quite well, actually) but I'm so disappointed with the GPS, altitude, and optical HR capabilities that I'm considering getting a newer, far cheaper contemporary model.

    nice mid-tempo ish thingy there SG. I did one myself this morning but 6 over an undulating loop which came out at about 6:20 pace. That probably says I'd be at 6:10ish HM right now, assuming I had enough miles in the tank to back it up from an endurance perspective. Not 100% confident from that angle but that's OK as there's no HM to race at the moment! I did notice you can still enter the Mhd HM though!!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    That's a solid one Wool. I came away wondering if I should have done 6, but I'd lured myself in on saying I'd do 5, and to be honest, only had a few hundred metres before I'd have come to the barrier, so it all would have been a faff.

    These runs I think also work better when you are specifically building to a race. To just do them now, in summer - probably the worst time to do them, takes some doing I think. But today lightly keeps my eye in a bit I suppose.  Maybe, yourself, me and the boy Simon B could get together to do a couple of these somewhere. That might be a decent mix.

    It's still all a bit depressing that while EA are opening up run groups to "unlimited numbers" and there's talk of this race and that race, aiming to go ahead, there's just as many things getting shut down.

    Even our lot are talking of binning our club event, of covering 4.2miles every hour.

    Doesn't look right politically apparently.

    Yet, somehow having 30-40 at the club on a sunday bedecked in Dasher gear, or a mass on Thursdays in this weird "unofficial" club run, that are run from the clubhouse, on a club night, are ok :D:D 
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭

    Racing gives you the extra sharpness that you can't get from training. Hard to put your finger on it - buts it's true. Hi PMJ - Hope you are well.

    Calling in from that London today - Wednesday will be my one day in work for the time being. Funny that running with a fairly heavy rucksack is quite hard when you haven't done it for a ages. Just out of practice, but nice to be out around Regents Pk again before work.

    Did 9 and 4 Monday - Yesterday over to Luton for the first time in ages, 8 x 800 on the grass, 600m around the 2 pitches and up the 100m ridge and back down for the last 200m. Quite a spread - 2.46 for the first..2.31 for the last.

  • Just for clarity, my Garmin 230 has apps and I use dwMap but the website is https://dynamic.watch/me so Bus and I use the same system. I used to use Strava for mapping routes but now I'm used to FE it seems about the same. Both have faults due to inaccuracies in the underlying maps used so I do use https://www.rowmaps.com/ as a reference to ensure I'm following public footpaths and not private tracks. That website is maintained by Barry Cornelius who is also the photographer behind https://www.oxonraces.com/photos/ so if you've run Marlow 5 then he's taken your picture and its on his website. 
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    nice idea and I'm flattered that you think that I could keep up as a part of that trio! The issue is with these kind of group tempo sessions is that the smallest margin in pace can be the killer for one in the group. I got invited to run with Ross and Steve when they were planning to run 6 @ 6s on a Saturday morning. Now, I have run 5 @ 6s solo before when in (my) top form but I'm not at that level right now. I thought I'd join and use it as a session, maybe 2*2 miles or something but missed the 1st one and then they ramped it up to 5:50 pace expectation. That counts me out completely, that's getting close to 5k pace so there's no point me joining. In they end they built up to 10 @ 5:45 pace. Tasty.

    Besides, by the time you get out of bed I've run 10 miles, eaten, washed, and worked for 3 hours! 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    They did 10 at 5.45 pace? That'd be a lot faster then either of their pbs surely?
    Unless you mean they finished a 10 at 5.45?

    I suppose it can become a bit too much like a race if each other is ramping each other on.
    I was meaning more a pre-defined disciplined job, like I aim for on these sort of runs... keeping it 6.10-15 and not straying faster.


  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    nope, I had a look and Ross ran the 10 miles in 57:50 . That's 5:47 pace so I did over-egg it slightly! I ran with Ross the next day, those are the times I can keep up with him nowadays :-)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    When was that one? Recently?

    That's an insane training run, as looking on po10, his 10mile pb is "only" 58.39 and i wondered if that was the boiling hot Maidy 10, but no, that was the CP in decent autumn conditions October 2019.
    Half marathon "only" 77.07 too, also 2019, which must be something like 5.54 pace.

    I wouldn't have been able to do a run like that back in 57.09 days
    I'd imagine it'd be reasonable to add 2mins onto a 10mile tempo, so either they were both in sub 56 form, or they are able to rinse themselves in training, in a way most of us could only dream of :D 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Found it! 4th July. No SB involved though?
    But Mark Vardy, who i've seen on strava as putting some mental tempos in (Like this :D), and also Steve Fell who has only raced about 15seconds quicker than the 58.12 or so, and 9 years ago at that! Bonkers.

    Very promising for our boys on a return to racing, as that is one insane effort. I suppose it does truly become like a race effort on the right course, with the right people around you!!

    But yes...my idea was nothing of that sort!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited July 2020
    Good going on those tempos chaps. I like to think im in 80min shape, but probably wont get to find out.

    Simon - bet that rucksack was a shock.

    Some pdf docs went up on runbritain re the return of road racing. Wave starts (where needed), no baggage tent, bring your own race drinks, discourage spectators........reckon the goodwood motor race cct race days would fit this well.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    It's all about people being flexible and optimistic I think TR.

    Take our club event - a lot of the committee immediately poo-pooed it when asked by the originator today, but I've contacted EA, and they're not against it at all - no problem.

    Suddenly it has half a chance with what I think are a few totally surmountable barriers and things to sort out.

    I think it takes a few people being positive like this if we're to see some sort of return soon.
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    I agree, it comes down to folks wanting to put races on and not look to not put them on. I guess it'll pick up once a few races set the way fwd.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Yep, the first ones have all the pressure.

    Once they have gone through reasonably successfully, it'll all open up.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Back to a standard 10 for the first actual time this week!
    7.10 or so i think. Almost back to the standard pace :)

    Will have to have a fun rampage at the segs tomorrow. Reward for getting back to the more measured tempos.
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