Sub 3

Wardi · February 6

RJR.. hope your calf niggle calms down, good luck with the race build up.

TT.. sad news but I guess a good send off is due for the old fella. 93 is a cracking innings! Re. iron levels both me & the Mrs had it and as I remember it did take a few weeks to build back to normal levels. Hope you're over the worst.

SJ.. I've recently paid a hefty sum for Eagles & Steely Dan tickets in Manchester 1st June. Co-op arena which I gather has been finished yet! We have decided to stay overnight to avoid the post gig rush.

11.6m today, I pushed on a bit as my weaker leg felt considerably better and more responsive. I won't count any chickens yet as I've had a few false dawns with this niggle. Fingers crossed!

TR · February 6

Wardi - wind is howling again here.

Joe - as much as I rate P and D (they make runners strong) they are hopeful on the hmp stuff, the mara plans have 5, 6 and 7m of LT in there, it's just not possible for normal Joe's, so you need to just do it to effort.

TT - that's sad, cracking age though.

10m inc 5 stdy which was a wet and windy affair, then an up wind ride home into a howling wind.

LS21 · February 7

Hello all,

Sorry I haven't posted for a few days - been up to my eyes in invoices and the like submitting my VAT return. Fortunately all sorted now though.

TR - that's decent enough at Chichester, especially given the wind. I sometimes find it hard to give it absolute full beans when you know conditions are against you, so I wouldn't worry. A really strong effort that will stand you in good stead for the Mara-specific stuff. Excellent news there are no ill effects re the knee as well!

rjr - some tidy reps and buggy parkrun there! Fingers crossed the calf thing is just a bit of tightness and it settles right down. Good luck for Sunday!

jooligan - 300 miles on the bike in Jan is fair going! Well done! Nicely done re the 16 as well. A bit quicker with a lower HR has got to be a step in the right direction.

wardi - fingers crossed re the niggle. That last post sounded pretty optimistic, so I hope it continues to feel stronger.

OO - great monthly total for Jan and great stuff re the footy! Hope you made the most of the hospitality! I hope the achilles niggle is ok too?

TT - sorry to hear about your wife's granddad Sad times. Better news re you feeling a bit better though. Onwards and upwards!

SJ - nice one re food after Trimpell. Not actually booked it yet (or even entered the race actually...) so I must sort both soon. Sorry to hear you've been rough as well - lots of bugs etc flying around at the mo. Given the weather as well then postponing the birthday run might be no bad thing! Glad to see you back to it anyway.

Just ticking along here trying to stick to the P+D stuff. Had a reminder/bit of a lesson to refuel much better after a longer midweek effort last week (which compromised the next 2 days of running really) - just not eating enough, or soon enough, but hopefully lesson learned. A long midweek run this morn was ok, so all good. Easy 7 tomorrow and then one of the P+D lactate runs rjr and TR have been discussing. 12 with 6 at LT pace I think. I'll get stuck in but won't get too hung up on pace. Ditto re my recoveries as well - SJ - pretty much all my recovery efforts are coming in at 8'45-9'00 mile pace of late. I'm finding the P+D stuff quite tough, so I'm trying to do my easy runs really easy so I'm a bit fresher. Seems to be helping. Done a lot of them on the treddy actually cos the weather has been so bad - so I just set it at a slow pace and switch my brain off! When the weather is so bad outside I do recoveries too quick, cos I just want to get finished. So it works ok!

TR · February 7

LS - sounds good, easy runs easy is where you want to be, theres a lot of tougher days which you need to rest for.

Change of routine this end (I'm home alone for 2 weeks, but can't run commute as i have to pop home for the dog), and i cant keep leaving her alone. Got out early today for 8m inc 10x3min in the wet, av pace was a bit low at av 6.35. But benefits to be had no doubt.

Wardi · February 7

TR.. that's a decent session if you're a bit squeezed for time. Sunny & blue sky here so looks like the South has been the soggy end of the country.

OO.. speaking of which.. I know a couple of Leeds fans who made the trip to Plymouth for last night's replay. Good result for them but they did say so much for retiring to the SW for a nicer climate! Conditions looked
pretty dismal on the TV.

LS21.. I do remember a couple of under nourished long runs back in my higher mileage days. A 17m commute home 2 days after a 24m ended in a bonk and a 5m death march bimble along lonely country lanes. Glad of my Pizza & ice cream that night. Keep up the good miles & sessions, hard work in this weather.

7.5m + 4m double today. Given the glorious sunny weather today with light winds I couldn't resist a run around the racecourse. I haven't 100% shifted my problem area but it is much better. Plus my pace has improved due to being able to push off from that leg more effectively. Onwards, though the weather tomorrow looks dire!

TippTop · February 8

Wardi - positive on the weaker leg. Tentatively good news

TR - fair play getting some good efforts in in that weather! The bike ride home must have been interesting! I permanently wfh at the moment and have the dog here.

rjr - I broadly agree with TR on the P&D hmp/tempo stuff generally - primarily with the doing it to effort, and doing it as short tempos to hit the pace, however......
Pfitzinger is from a Lydiard background, and his schedules are designed along those principles. Lydiard included several 10km Time Trials in his schedules, which I know from experience is essentially 10km @ HMP, which is where the 5, 6, and 7 miles of LT in the P&D schedules come from.
For me personally if I'm looking to hit hmp for a tempo and I'm on the roads then 3m is pretty much my upper limit, but if I'm doing a 10km TT I go to the track and expect to be able to maintain hmp for the 10km on there (no road crossings, changes in profile, etc). Alternatively line them up with a race.

LS - sounds a good idea on doing recoveries on the treadie. I don't seem to have issues with under-fuelling. In fact my scales say exactly the opposite! Lol

Got out Tuesday for 6m easy around the plumber and other stuff. Status of where I'm at is that it felt ok right up until I had to pick up the pace to get across the road ahead of a car, which was enough to make my breathing ragged for half a mile!
10m easy yesterday - first 8m with Jr. 4m very easy-easy this morning.

In other news, Jr was second home for Berkshire in the schools intercounties match at the weekend so has made the team for the schools nationals. He's coming on really well and looking really smooth and strong so it'll be interesting to see how he goes over 10m this weekend.

runjoerun91 · February 8

TT/TR - Yeah makes sense. That has generally been my approach, to run a hard effort for the time/distance required although possibly I should have been running them at HMP effort which should feel a bit easier but generally doesn't towards the end of a long run. I do think the sessions are doable but my whole week would probably have to be built around them. They're not realistic if i've pushed parkrun on a saturday.
TT - Great news on junior. Was thinking just yesterday how good it is to cash in as a junior and the reduced competition in races. Sounds like he's progressing well. I remember pretty much nothing about running for my county as a junior so I hope he can take a bit more in. Sounds like things are feeling a bit better for you too.
Wardi - A winter of weather dodging! You are a king of the doubles. Good news on leg feeling improved.
TR - 10x3mins is solid work. I'm sure you'll find a way to get your miles in still.
LS21 - Sensible work on the recoveries. I find training at the moment for 5k/10k/half that I feel quite fresh a lot of the time. But I do remember having quite a lot of days of feeling really tired in the legs under P&D. It's all part of the process, and I don't think you can run too slow on recovery days. The idea is to get the blood flowing to the legs to aid recovery and I think the consensus is as long as your form isn't compromised pretty much any pace will do.

Gym sesh went well, no calf niggles. Legs feeling good but combination of being busy at work, daughter not sleeping well and being up in Manchester/St Helens this weekend i'm struggling to get out for runs. Hoping for a run tomorrow, parkrun saturday and 10 miles or so Sunday. Whilst you know you won't lose much fitness by missing the odd run or 2 it still gets into your head. Closest i've been to maranoia for a long time.

TR · February 8

TT - well done jnr....I agree with the approx 3m. I'm not going to run round a track to see if i can do the 10k.

Joe - the odd day off is good for you, but agreed it can be tough to do.

Forecast was a yellow warning of rain today, a 5m soaking confirmed they were right. I was short of time but wanted to tick off a minimal 5m.

Wardi · February 8

Good for the spirit getting out there in the rain TR! We had rain to start with then snow from 9am. Main roads ok round here though.

RJR.. I do prefer ticking over in the taper phase of a marathon or half but it can be difficult to keep the handbrake on. Hope you can find a Parkrun that's good to go.

TT.. good to see you got out around the plumbing visit and a decent 10m done yesterday. Impressive stuff from your lad, he seems to be progressing well.

A bit of a contrast to yesterday's sun & blue sky - it's been grey, gloomy & wet all day today. Had to wait in for a delivery anyway so 9m done on the treadie.

OuchOuch · February 8

LS - Great work on the P&D - it works. With today's weather, back on treadmill?
TT - Sorry to hear about your wife's dad, 93 is a good innings. Really good opportunity for TT jr, the nationals - well done and exciting.
TR - Good 10*3 minute sess and 6.35 is decent enough. Hope the dog is appreciating your efforts.
Joe - Good the calf niggle seems to have cleared-up.
Wardi - Yes, when it rains here, it rains. I missed the Leeds game but one of my son's friends went and was seen on TV doing a 'gesture'. His mum had a call today from the school as it had been spotted by an eagle-eyed teacher. Nice 9m.

Ankle aches but seems to be improving slowly. This week 2 zeros, 4m y'day and 7m today. Try 8m tomorrow - wish me luck.

TippTop · February 8

rjr - is there the possibility of moving that LT session to a Saturday and using the parkrun as part of it?

TR - I actually quite like zoning out doing it around a track.

Wardi - do you watch stuff or listen to music when you're on the treadie for that long?

OO - good luck!

8m earlier was the best I've felt on a run in ages. Nice rhythm and no breathing issues. Fingers crossed I'm almost back to reasonable levels!

TR · February 9

Wardi - you can keep your snow, but I've had four wet running days in a row.

OO - hope the ankle improves......I used to work with a guy who threw a sickle to go to the cricket and was spotted on TV.

TT - i get the track thing, but I'm not keen enough to go somewhere to train.

Out early for 8m inc 5x6min. Did it round a nearby boating lake, but run the wrong way round as the most exposed section was wind against (should have run the other way). Av pace 6.30, so solid if unspectacular, but the first rep was 6.39 which ruined the av, best was 6.26. Probably a bit slow, but early doors with minimal warm up and windy, decent efforts so we move on. Afternoon off to take the doggy for a decent walk.

Wardi · February 9

TR.. nice session in the breeze, was it wet today? Our snow melted away quickly overnight as the temps rose, we are now back to the large puddles & mini floods of a few weeks back. Had to do a bit of paddling this morning.

TT.. that sounds like a confidence boosting run, hope the feel good factor continues. Re. our treadie room, it is a decent sized spare room upstairs with a big window so a decent view out. Mrs Wardi also does some online yoga classes up there. Our previous TV went in there (new TV last summer) and I have various bits of my previous hifi system rigged up too. It is loud enough to be heard over the treadie noise! That room does look over the front of the house so I can see any deliveries arriving or any suspicious activity!

OO.. best of luck with your active recovery, hope the 8m was comfy.

Light rain on & off today so nothing like yesterday's rain & snow. Managed to find a dry window this morning for 6.5m - apart from getting wet feet.

TR · February 9

Wardi- id rather have rain than snow, yes rain here, 4th wet running day in a row.......got a pan of curry bubbling on the hob.......madras based paste, but I've added spud, cauli and chickpeas to the chicken to bulk it up a bit. I'll get quite a few portions out of it.

OuchOuch · February 9

Wardi - That sounds like a good treadmill set-up - with the hi-fi blasting the Eagles and Steely Dan? Well done on finding the pleasant part of the day for your run, one of the benefits I am looking forward to in the summer when I retire.
Joe - You did say you expected my ultra running mate to sub 3 @ Milan - me too. But its interesting/ surprising from speaking to ultra runners and listening to ultra podcasts of the reverence they have for a sub-3 marathon as I suppose its not just an endurance event which they are used to, but speed endurance, which they are not. Have a good 10m on Sunday and suppose you will be looking for an easier week in the run up to the Wrexham Half marathon?
TT - It was good to read about your 8m run - hopefully you've turned the corner and your well on your way back!
TR - A very good tempo, a decent dog walk and a delicious sounding curry (madras) to look forward to - what a day. A few frothies too? I have a few BrewDog Silk Roads to sink later.

Thanks for the good lucks, alas ended up walking home from the run. Pain level was 3 at the start, dropped after the first mile but started increasing in the last few miles to a 6 or 7. Bit of a shame as otherwise a lovely run to Padstow and back in the sunshine. Suspect it might be peroneal tendonitis as it fits the symptoms. So on the bench for a while, over to Mother Nature and must resist the urge to get back at it too soon.

TR · February 9

OO - exercises and ice for that then......Silk Roads are a bit meaty for me. I have a choice of some golden ales, San Miguel or grazing lager.

TR · February 10

20m with middle 10m steady (5 Av 7.24, 5 av 7.01, last mile was 6.48). Solid week even if a bit short of time (at times), with a 10k race, 2 sessions and a 20m. Got to.be some fitness gains to be had.

Wardi · February 10

TR.. cracking long run with those varied pace sections. Hope you had our wind - foggy most of the day here so barely a breath.
Oh and nice curry preparation, we went for a biryani each last weekend. Very tasty but big portions, probably could have skipped the starter!

OO.. that's a shame but you have accepted it which is usually the difficult part! Hopefully a bit of rest and active treatment will get you back to it.

10.6m today, done in the fog this morning so wore a hi viz shirt as a precaution. It has slowly lifted during the day. I'm getting a bit more confident with the distances now so I'll see how the next week goes.

TR · February 11

Wardi - sounds like you are running further and getting good miles in, you m8ght be able to do more longer singles now......was less windy yday, standing water was the biggest problem. But windier today.

Played it by ear today, but legs felt ok after a few miles, so did 15m to maximise the longer run time available. Legs were pretty tired in last 5m.

saintjason · February 11

I really struggle to run tempo at anything much faster than MP and that's after a good few weeks of building them up RJR. I take missed run days in my stride now. Resting is still training in my book. Only look forwards too. You can't effect the past.

I saw those ticket prices for The Eagles Wardi. Eye watering. The new arena is looking good from the outside.

I haven't booked Trimpell yet either LS21 haha. It never sells out, famous last words. Good going keeping the medium long runs going. They are solid. I barely get above 10 miles during the week now.

Sorry to read of the sad loss of your wife's grandfather TT. My condolences. In better news so pleased to hear of your running feeling so good. Long may it continue.

Likewise sorry to read the run today ended in you being on the bench OO. Take care of that ankle and as you say, baby steps when testing it out.

Solid enough efforts in the week TR and tasty long run with the steady section. Flippin 'eck followed by another 15 today ! Miles = smiles indeed.

I thought I had done a steady week at this end and then saw TR's numbers. In that respects I think I'm doing the bare minimum haha.

Still mostly easy stuff through the week including a couple of runs in doors. 8x800m yesterday off 90s jog, first four a smidge under 3 mins, last four a touch quicker.

I backed that up with 18 miles today on my hilly route. Heavy legs on the climbs. Picked it up in the closing miles but not much above the average pace for the run. Feel tired tonight.

52 miles for the week.

OuchOuch · February 11

TT - What was in that madras paste on Friday night?a great weekend of running/ training. Well and truly in the zone. Amazed how you can do a 15m after a 20m, you must be feeling looser in limb. Well done.
SJ - Likewise, another really good weekend/ week. Keep on knocking them out, as we all know its all about consistency. Spot on rest is training.
Wardi - Thats a good 10m and some run, good your at a stage when you feel you can kick-on. Shame Barca, unlike some other pretty big Spanish marathons Madrid/ Malaga, don't have a HM option you could have done.

Nice 10m on the bike today, saw a few guys I know doing some pretty impressive looking SLR. Yes, just baby steps. Just had a look at Garmin stats telling me my V2O Max is 62, which it says is good, I have a fitness level of 92 (best ever), a RHR of 40 and my favourite of all a fitness age of 25.5. All questionable of course but solace for the soul.

Wardi · February 11

OO.. I haven't completely given up on Barca given recent progress, I'll see how the next 2 weeks go and make a decision. I do have a couple of club mates at Seville next weekend, should be 2.45-2.55 on paper.
I did a lot of cycling in Aug/Sept when I was properly crocked. Good for the soul and keeps us fit!

SJ.. a fine weekend's training again, nice 18m today. Yes the present day ticket prices are mind boggling, we decided to go as 2 of our old favourites were appearing together.
I console myself by looking at an old ticket stub from 1972 - I saw the prime line up of Deep Purple (Machine Head tour) for the princely sum of £1.25.

TR.. great work adding a 15m to yesterday's outing - sounds like a double weekend LMH would be proud of!

7m + 4m today, damp this morning but a pleasant afternoon. Lots of water & flooding around again. My Garmin reports a rather devilish 66.6m for the week.

runjoerun91 · February 12

Wardi - seemed like a real wet one in most parts although I was up in the north-west and I think we missed the worst of it. Decent mileage from you there.
OO - If half of those stats are true that's good going! The RHR especially. Although I don't actually know if that increases with age. For me RHR is a good measure of my fitness. I can see the ultra logic but I'd have thought anyone winning an ultra that isn't stupidly long would have a bit of endurance and speed.
SJ - I think treating resting and S&C as equivalent in some ways to runs is a good thing. I've often thought it would be good if I can get into the mindset that if I miss S&C it's a failed week. Same with resting. I'm trying to be more mindful about why i'm doing each run atm. And if there's no point in it I may as well rest or stretch/strength.
TR - 35 miles on back-to-back days not to be sniffed at. That's ultra training for some.
TT - Good to see a return to normal levels. Hope they've continued. Yes re LT. I have thought about WU, 5k effort to parkrun, 5k effort in parkrun (more tired but with some pacing help), and then a cool down. That would be a good session and should only be really tough if I get my paces wrong.

Managed 5 miles Friday, 5 miles Saturday including a first finish at Knowsley parkrun and then 7 miles yesterday. Parkrun had some off road including a section across some slippy mud. Came in at 18:47 for me. Ran a 3:30 first k with the guy who finished 2nd but he was wearing vaporflys so I think the off road just completely did for him and he came in over 20 mins in the end. Wanted to run 10 miles yesterday but had to do it later in the day and I went way over the top at Pizza Express for lunch. Not sure i've ever felt so sick running, so just ground out 7. Half way through a 9 mile double today.

Seeking some advice re the Alphaflys. Bought them for myself for my birthday and looking to wear them for the first time this Sunday. The plan for the rest of the week is a couple of short sessions eg 5x800m at HMP, just to freshen up the legs. Presumably worth wearing the shoes to get a feel. Assume i'm not going to break them in at all but would tell me if they are a total no go if I get any issues? Lots of people seem to just stick them on new for a race but equally people do have issues with them which maybe ok over a half but could be torture over a marathon. Just wondered what you guys have done with any new supershoes?

Also have to say I found the Kiptum news really sad this morning. Can't remember many sports people being taken at such a prime and it's a real shame we'll never know if he could have broken 2 in a legal setting.

TippTop · February 12

Wardi - this one apparently links to netflix and prime video so I'm sorting out a router booster for out there. The in-built speakers seem quite good.
Great to see you getting some confidence back, and a devilishly good weekly volume!

TR - some great training. Your consistency is excellent. Curry sounded pretty decent too - we made similar the other day actually.

OO - tough break on the suspected peroneal tendonitis. Fingers crossed it heals quickly! Apparently we've got the same VO2Max at the moment.

sj - you sound like you're going well; keep it up!

rjr - I will wear all shoes for at least 1 reasonable run before wearing them in a race. The only addition to that relating to Alphafly' is I found them very unstable cornering, so maybe bear that in mind/include a couple of turns/bends in your test run.

I started feeling ropey on Friday but couldn't put a finger on anything specific as the cause..... until Saturday when I had my first proper asthma attack in longer than I can remember (certainly at least 7 years as I've never had one like this in the time Mrs TT and I have been together). Luckily I was able to auto-pilot the stuff I was taught to do when I was having one so other than leaving me a bit shaky there was no harm done.
As I hadn't run Friday I opted to try run Saturday evening which was as stupid as it sounds - 4m where I felt like a baby trying to stand up for the first time for most of it. Only 39m for the week, but I did manage to not chase miles, kept my Sunday off (bar the standard long walk and weights).

Back at it today with 18m. 9m easy, 9m brisk (with 2 big climbs) - just under 2:10 overall.

Jr had a cracking run yesterday. The course had to be re-routed due to flooding making the distances 10.1m and 20.2m instead of the advertised 10m/20m. He got around in 58:25 (so would have been 57:xx for the 10), setting a 10km pb on the way, and about 7 minutes quicker than last year.

Wardi · February 12

TT.. that's a great time for Jr over 10.1m, he's making very rapid progress! Bad luck on the asthma as it came out of the blue, hope it's a one-off. Good run for you over 18m today given recent setbacks.

RJR.. I wear NB's and follow the old advice of running in them a few times before a race - including a fairly long run/MLR to find any potential problems. Congrats on another Parkrun victory!
Re. the lunchtime Pizza, I think it takes 3-4 hours to properly digest a 'big' meal. I always try to save the bigger nosh until after a run so I can enjoy it more. BTW I've just heard that 2 from my club are lining up at Wrexham. One is the young sub 70 guy from the Brass Monkey (also sub 32 at Dewsbury 10k). The other lad ran sub 72 at Brass so I guess they will be near the front.

A decent day here after a bit of early rain. 5.4m easy today, huge puddles of water everywhere so I couldn't really avoid getting wet feet.

TR · February 12

SJ - good stuff, 800s the day before a long run is a good double.

OO - shame about yr ankle. Get on the ice and exercises. That probably needs some mobility?

Joe - never had any alpha, but I've done a run in VF before using them in a race.

TT - well done jnr. Can't believe you ran on the day you'd had a attack, good to be back up to 18m already.

Wardi - there's a new NB racer out soon?

Minimal 5m easy today, legs felt ok. With my recent 70mpw limit 35m in about 25 hours will shock the legs, but every now and the its not a bad thing.

LS21 · February 13

Sorry real quick message as up to my eyes and not properly properly read back. But rjr - I've got a pair of Alphafly 2. The first run I thought they were great, until about 4 miles in when I started to develop a blister on my heel. By 6 miles I was struggling with said blister and pretty much had to walk back. So I'd be wary of jumping straight into a race with them untried. That said lots seem to do exactly that, so I dunno!

Will post properly later on

LS21 · February 13

Actually something I've just thought of. I was on youtube a while back looking at various things re the new Alphafly 3. There's a channel called 'fordyruns' - he did a Half as his first ever run in them. And they rubbed his arches quite badly and he got 2 blisters.

TR · February 13

I think thst AF3 have decent reviews, some folks didn't like ver2 though. AF3 should be more available by spring Mara time.

7m easy in the wind and rain this morning, had another nose bleed in last mile, so might have to take it easy again tomorrow, was planning a session.....took the doggy to the beach in the wind and rain this afternoon.

TippTop · February 13

TR - trying to run on the same day I've had my first proper asthma attack in years wasn't my brightest moment to be fair! I'm sure it won't take your legs long to bounce back from your back to back but bad luck with the nose bleed!
Hopefully the doggy enjoyed the beach - ours still isn't sure what to make of the waves. The last time we took him he alternated between chasing the waves back out and running away as they chased him back in

Wardi - apparently there is a likelihood that the asthma attack was triggered by the withdrawal of fibro pain meds so should be a one-off (I've been getting reducing benefits for increasing problems). Jr is coming along well, and has given me a marker for when I run a 10m on Good Friday.

Just a 10m jog today. I don't have TR's legs as I was more than happy to bimble around at that effort.

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