Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Bus, just meaning that normally you cover less distance in the reps in total, than the race pace you're aiming for...(although you actually did equal not less)....ie 6x800 = 5k ish. Maybe it's ok for 5k, but could you imagine covering 10k at 10k pace in a session, or 10miles at 10mile pace in a session?

    back from physio, as pet last time, no actual pulls or strains going on, but the theory that a tight back leads to the tight hamstring, foot ache and hip issue.

    Therefore, i'm taking the tips very seriously, will start sitting better at work, do the back dips at my seat, and continue to do the lunges, bent leg dips, and all the other stuff!!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    My collection of various stretches and exercises from physios over the years for back, knees and hip almost take as long as my proper training!  The back ones have definitely been a winner though. Not cured, but very much controlled.

    I understand what you mean now. I've never really looked at it like that, other than now starting to aim it at 5k target pace rather than just running as fast as I can for the distnace! I think 10k at 10k pace, as 10 x 1km would be very hard and I wouldn't even want to thnk about doing the equivalent for 10 miles! So far the longest session I've done has been just 7 x 0.5M at 2.47 avg pace with 90 sec. I would like to eventually build this up to 10 reps though, so 5M at 5k pace equivalent I guess.  I used to do tempos up to 6M at what was 10M target pace (now HM) but that was in the bad old days before warming up and down properly! I'd like to bring these in again (albeit with a decent warm up and down) but am currently subsituting these with a race almost weekly.

    Long run this evening......

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Bus, i can't see how 5miles at 5k pace can be sensible in any way?! There's a reason your 5k pace is your 5k pace after all...if you could handle it for that long, even in reps, than surely it would become your 5mile pace.

    Generally you find that the reps you do in training with recoveries, become your race pace on the day...

    Having said that maybe I'm a very soft core runner...as i remember being told by a couple of slower runners on another thread that 6miles at HMP without recoveries is a decent workout!

    I'd not like to try it.

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    SG - at club, we regularly have sessions set of reps at 5k pace which total more than 5k, usually up to about 8k.  For me this is something like 80-82 seconds a lap, which means a 5k pace of 16:40 -17:05,  Whilst it's hard, I can get it done.

    Not that I'm necessarily saying it's a good idea, as I'm no expert on what you should and shouldn't do in training.  I voss only followink orders.

    PMJ - good consistent racing, though it must get frustrating at the third time of the same result.  Maybe if you used your other arm, you could shave that one second off?

    Dean - no matter how many reps you do, I'm sure the speed of them will more than make up for my quantity.

    So, latest news is that I have been awarded the silver medal for the Berkshire 10k championships (which was part of the Wargrave race at the weekend).  Bit amusing, cos no doubt many more than one of the 11 guys who finished in front of me were from Berkshire (a lot were from Berkshire clubs anyway), but didn't know/remember or couldn't be arsed to enter.  But still, it's always nice to get a medal!

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    congrats Dachs - not aimed at you at all but im stunned how low level county champs are attended/cared about.  Back in my youth the county champs were huge and winning them was a big deal as it fed you into the inter counties then if successful onto the nationals.  There were that many runners that you even had to run heats unless you had the qualifying time to go straight to the final.   I got a silver in my first 5k on the track in 20yrs back in may, i was nowhere near the 2nd best 5k runner in the county that day. So how can i be really proud of that medal, knowing there were at least 3 people in the crowd that day who would have destroyed me who didnt rate the event enough to go for a medal.  Anyway grumpy mode offimage  Im off to get some sugar

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Ah Dachs, i always laugh at some of your posts, poor Phil with his dead arm style. Actually dead arm might conjure other connotations!

    Forget any doubts Dachs, lap that silver medal up and wear it proud!!

    Quite interesting looking at those Wargrave results actually...no one "exceptionally" fast but top 12  ranging from 34:12 to sub 36. Unusual for a race of that size down here for a 35 to not hit top 10.

    Datchet with their traditional little "gaggle" of runners all close to each other...i swear that kind of drafting is gaining an unfair advantage image And a little posse of Handy Cross peeps together too.

    Dean, don't worry, Bus, Phil, and Frankie to name 3 from this thread alone treate the county championships with utmost respect! Personally i haven't a clue when, what and why they are of any significance, but for the chaps, they're big must do races, which is fair play, i might just need educating! 

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Hey, don't forget how could a marketing opportunity being "County Champ" is Stevie image

    Can't say I'm that bothered about them, but if there is a list, I'd like to be toward the top! Somehing to tell the grnad kids I s'pose - sounds better than 657th in the London marathon!

    I guess the thing with over-training distance  reps, is I'm trying to build V02 and lactate threshold more than teaching specific leg speed/pace (you also don't get an opprotunity for 90 sec recvery every k in race!). I'm doing my reps at 5k target pace, as that's the fastest I can comfortably do them, but I'm not planning any 5k races soon. I'm working on the assumption that going a bit slower in a 10k will start to feel easier!

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    County championships seems to still be respected for cross-country, at least.  Yes, I shall enjoy the medal, but take it with a pinch of salt, being fully aware of how many quicker guys than me there are in Berkshire.

    I think the old chaps just have fond memories of when counties meant something image.  Berkshire doesn't even exist anymore.

    SG - that was the frustrating thing about Wargrave, there was a big leading group, which would've been perfect to stick with for some of the race at least, but I let them go too early.  Those fast Datchet guys always turn up en masse, don't they?  Maybe Datchet have bred an army of clone runners, albeit ones who don't look like each other.

    Just purchased my first pair of racers.  Asics Hyperspeed.  At the very least they don't clash with the club vest as much as the others.  Now to use 'em ...

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    They've sprung up, as traditionally in the 5ks it would be Maidenhead dominating, and in the XC I used to finish and have about 10 Sandhurst and Reading ahead of me...now it seems Datchet are the leading force on the local scene.

    I'd almost consider a "small money" transfer myself, but then there'd be 2 clubs hating me at the xcs rather than just the current 1! Also, a white vest for XC is just asking for trouble!

    Bus, if you were aiming to improve V02 instead of doing more 5k reps, maybe a different option is to keep the volume lower but do reps such as 800 at 5k pace, and then400 at 3k pace (within the same 1200 rep). The increase in speed, when you're already working at a decent level is a right old tester!

     

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Asics Hyperspeed. The racers I use right now.

    Biggest interval session, 21 x 3 mins at 5:30 min mile pace, 1 min recovery. Nuts! I lived.

    County medals. An international runner once dug through my collection of trophies and on finding my county silver medal for a marathon declared it to be the only worthwhile award there, all the rest being junk. So county and area medals, good.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Hyperspeed? Have to laugh at the marketing there!  The next pair I get will be a pair of

    "Amazing Lightning Quicker than the speed of light megatrons"

    Ric, 63mins at a pace that was presumably your 10k pace of the time? That's genius.

    That "international runner" sounds a bit of a tool. Putting someone down for their level under no provocation is just plain bad form.

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Dachs, welcome to the growing number of county champs we have on the thread! image I would agree most county champs are poorly contested apart from XC which in Cheshire is still very competitive. To be top 10 you need to be a 33 low 10k guy or an XC expert. But as a rule nobody will 34:xx gets near the top 10. With only the top 6 to qualify for the inter counties my odds don't look good! image I assume it's similar in other countys? Most guys were 32:xx guys with a sub 4 miler in their for good measure!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, yes the guy does sound like a tool alright, unless you met him. He meant that the county medals are the real deal. He was one one of our training group and did the sort of training the rest of us did, except for the occasional session that for some reason only I witnessed. One session was 400m differentials, ie 200m steady, 200m fast. I saw the guy do 30 seconds and 25 seconds and bits four times, then lay on the ground being as sick you like. When he finally recovered, he said something along the lines of 'don't tell the others about this', I assume I was there in case he needed an ambulance.

    Did SS say county champions, well I'll admit I nailed gold at Abingdon Marathon 2003 for Middlesex. Best personal medal ever. 

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    It's great sometimes racing against top dogs, but otherwise it's like looking in a beauty magazine and feeling like a right pooch.

    That's why it's always good to mix things up with a few lower key races.

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    ... I certainly did. There's also me and Rob who are 3k champs. Tough race - I had to beat a whole other person for gold! image 

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Stevie see wrote (see)

    ... I certainly did. There's also me and Rob who are 3k champs. Tough race - I had to beat a whole other person for gold! image 

    Something similar for me. I just edged out the guy in second place by 30 minutes.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Ric, fair enough...surely if something's making you sick it isn't good for you!

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭

    nightmare...went down the track and didnt even complete the warm up.  My calf and achilles flared up immediately and no amount of warming up made the pain go away.

    The calf did loosen but the dull pain in the achilles stayed and was sore.  So  i listened to my head and stepped of the track and didnt do the session.  Better to avoid a potential injury and let the pride/ego take a hit.  So a few days of rest and we see again. 

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    SG, I agree. But how many guys training don't feel they are achieving anything until they are hurting?

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    Ouch. Hopefully a few days rest and strecthing will see it right as rain dean.

    Ric - 30 min winning margin! Must ahve been lonely out front in a marathon!

    SG - that 1200 sounds like a good plan. I'll either have to get back to the track, or work out how to set it up on my garmin!

    16M road for me tonight. The rain started as I stepped off the train to start! Aimed for 7mm pace overall. Started a bit too quick (6;50 for first 5 - had to overtake another runner!). I was on for it at 14M (6:57) but the 0.9M and almost 300ft slog up Cryers Hill put paid to that and I ended on 7:03 - couldn't make the difference up over the last mile as that would have meant about 6:10 pace!

    One more long road run and that's me done for Wycombe Half (and the chance of a County medal - oh no, they don't give vet medals in Bucks. Hey ho!)

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    By the way, I wasn't expecting a post from Dean while I was composing my piece. But let me say how impressed I am that he didn't go ahead with the session. I've been there and learnt the hard way.

  • Stevie seeStevie see ✭✭✭

    Hope it's OK Dean, I'm the same been on an easy week too. Did manage a warm up and 8 x 200m with 200 jog tonight. Legs still weren't up to much. Another rest day tomorrow. Officially start proper training on Sunday.

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    Hi Bus, the Abingdon is made up of all sorts of 'county this' and 'championship that' so I wasn't alone by any means. Don't mind being isolated during long hard races since no one can see my bad patches or where I slow down a bit for a rest. Or worseimage

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Sensible Dean...don't be a hero and sit out for weeks!

    Bus...not my idea, I'm trained by a legend remember! That kind of session would be towards peaking for a 5k race.Getting used to working hard, but then having to ramp up a gear.

    16miles midweek, i can testify is a good achievement full stop. Again, that's a fast pace, making a mockery of the LSR idea! If you're aiming for a session to get you ready for a half   marathon, how about something a bit more progressive, say 14miles 8miles easy to steady, 3miles MP, then 3miles HMP.

    Otherwise you end up in the steady zone, not easy, and not hitting the higher zones.

    Let me know if you have any days off coming up, or any evenings free, and we could potentially arrange a session combined, and maybe wheel Phil in as well.

    We can have out own little gang, Datchet stylee!

  • Well done on the county medal Dachs. I have a bronze for 10 miles from Oxford and it is a treasured possession: sub 56 on a hilly course. I also have a Bucks gold for track 5000m in a field of one: not so treasured but still nice. Bucks champs are all on the website SG: http://www.bucksaa.org.uk/champs.html so Wycombe half and Bearbrook 10k.

    Notice dachs and bus have got some momentum up recently and giving Sam a run for her money:

    http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/headtohead.aspx?athleteids=83630|412393|16186

     

  • Sorry to hear about your calf/achilles Dean. Wise decision though. I'm also struggling a bit with tightness in my left achilles/calf. It isn't more than a feeling of tightness for now so did the track session tonight. Haven't run anything quicker than 6 min miles for nearly 3 months so my body was a bit in shock. 6 x 600m off 60 seconds recovery. 1:55, 1:56, 1:57, 1:56, 1:55, 1:54. Going to take a bit of work to get back to where I was a few months ago.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    Dachs, i remembered you'd beaten your half down from Wokingham to Reading, but i misremembered it as being ahead of my current half..it's your 10k that's a fair way ahead...32 secs! That must mean a 1:16:xx is on the cards at a good half effort.

    Therefore, bearing in mind I tend to beat Sam 5k -10k distances, and would have a good chance if fully fit for a half head to head, you should definitely not be losing ground to her going forward!

    Bus is the man for battling Sam, as every race i do with the 2 of them , they seem to come in very close to each other....image

    Warren, always a shocker to the system when you ask it to run fast after a while of easier training isn't it!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    I make sure I come in close to Sam to get my pic in the paper!

    To be fair though, most of my wins against Sam are either old, or when he's been at the end of a 100 mile plus week or something silly! 

    Warren - hopefully the old muscle memory will come into play and your progress will surprise you.

    I seem to have got into the habit of midweek long runs of late, mainly so I've recovered by the weekend for races, but it also seems to work quite well in that it doesn't write off a day at the weekend, so I can still do all the family related stuff that crops up.  It's the thought of Philip's midweek 20+ miles BEFORE work in his VLM campaign that still well and truly flabbers my gast!  

    I would like to make the long runs progressive, and even on tonights I amde a conscious effort to pick up the pace from 10-13 miles but it's the logistics that are a problem when I try to fit them in after work in particular, as I'd have to arrange to be picked up somewhere given that whichever way I come home there's always a bloody big hill near the end!

     

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭

    PS - sorry ric - hadn't twigged it was the championship element you meant!

     

  • DachsDachs ✭✭✭

    Dean - sorry to hear about those issues, but discretion is definitely the better part of valour.

    Bus - that's a quick old long run, especially with those hills involved.

    Warren - those 600s still sound pretty quick to me.

    Phil - I guess you just have to pick your distances if you want a winning record against Sam.  Stick to 10k's, maybe the occasional half, and avoid marathons like the plague!  SG - 1:16:xx is probably a bit sharp still.  But I won't be doing a PB course for a half for some time, so who knows.  But yeah, you've still got 11 seconds on me.  A battle royale at Wokingham next year?

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